Lol, no it's not. Like I said before, Christmas is just Christmas now, there is no religous background to it at all. (Unless you are Christian of course) - But I have a few mates who are, and they don't see it that way at all, the majority of the people I know are Athiests, and every single one of them celebrate it. The only people that don't celebrate it who I know of are muslims.
the celebration of Christmas originally was the pagan celebration of the winter solstice (December 21 or 22 each year in the Northern hemisphere): it occurs on the shortest day/longest night of the year, and marks the point after which the days start to lengthen again and the worst of the winter has passed. There are many, many different celebrations marking the winter solstice; as many as there are cultures who feel the bite of winter, or who have the concept of argicultural seasons (which is pretty much everybody). To name a few: In Japan there is the Amaterasu celebration: festivities are held to celebrate the re-emergence of Amaterasu or Amateras (Hindu), the sun goddess of Japanese mythology, from her seclusion in a cave. Tricked by the other gods with a loud celebration, she peeks out to look and finds the image of herself in a mirror and is convinced by the other gods to return, bringing sunlight back to the universe. The Saami, indigenous people of Finland, Sweden and Norway, worship Beiwe, the sun-goddess of fertility and sanity. She travels through the sky in a structure made of reindeer bones with her daughter, Beiwe-Neia, to herald back the greenery on which the reindeer feed. On the winter solstice, her worshipers sacrifice white female animals, and with the meat, thread and sticks, bed into rings with ribbons. They also cover their doorposts with butter so Beiwe can eat it and begin her journey once again. The Winter Solstice Festival or The Extreme of Winter is one of the most important festivals celebrated by the Chinese and other East Asians during the dongzhi solar term on or around December 21 when sunshine is weakest and daylight shortest; i.e., on the first day of the dongzhi solar term. The origins of this festival can be traced back to the Yin and Yang philosophy of balance and harmony in the cosmos. After this celebration, there will be days with longer daylight hours and therefore an increase in positive energy flowing in. Goru is the winter solstice ceremony of the Pays Dogon of Mali. It is the last harvest ritual and celebrates the arrival of humanity from the sky god, Amma, via Nommo inside the Aduno Koro, or the "Ark of the World". The Inti Raymi or Festival of the Sun was a religious ceremony of the Inca Empire in honor of the sun god Inti. It also marked the winter solstice and a new year in the Andes of the Southern Hemisphere. One ceremony performed by the Inca priests was the tying of the sun. In Machu Picchu there is still a large column of stone called an Intihuatana, meaning "hitching post of the sun" or literally for tying the sun. The ceremony to tie the sun to the stone was to prevent the sun from escaping. Over four thousand years ago, Egyptians celebrated the rebirth of the sun at this time of the year. They set the length of the festival at 12 days, to reflect the 12 divisions in their sun calendar. They decorated with greenery, using palms with 12 shoots as a symbol of the completed year, since a palm was thought to put forth a shoot each month. In ancient Egyptian mythology, the deity of death Osiris was killed and was entombed but reborn as Horus, the sun god, to his wife Isis. In the annual winter solstice ceremony, this event was ritually reenacted by priests. At his moment of death, the priests brought out an image of an infant, indicating his immediate rebirth as Horus. The last day of the Persian month Azar is the longest night of the year, when the forces of Ahriman are assumed to be at the peak of their strength. While the next day, the first day of the month Dey known as khoram rooz or khore rooz (the day of sun) belongs to Ahura Mazda, the Lord of Wisdom. Since the days are getting longer and the nights shorter, this day marks the victory of Sun over the darkness. The occasion was celebrated in the ancient Persian Daygan Festival dedicated to Ahura Mazda, and Mithra on the first day of the month Dey. Christmas meanwhile, is the celebration of the birth of the God Incarnate or Messiah, a.k.a. Jesus Christ. The birth is observed on December 25th, what was the winter solstice upon establishment of the Julian Calendar in 45 BC. Banned by the Catholic Church initially as a pagan, non-Christian practice stemming out of the Sol Invictus celebrations, Christians revitalized its recognition as an authentic Christian festival in various cultures within the past several hundred years, preserving much of the folklore and traditions of local pagan festivals. So today, the old festivals such as Jul and Karácsony, are still celebrated in many parts of Europe, but the Christian Nativity is now often representational of the meaning. The American Santa Claus originated from Dutch settlers' stories about Sinterklaas, the Dutch name for St. Nicholas, and how he gave presents to girls and boys. St. Nicholas was Bishop of Myra, in Turkey in the 3rd century AD, who would travel in his red bishop's robes and give gifts to the poor. He was believed to have been particularly kind to children. St. Nicholas spread from the Mediterranean and Eastern Europe to the West and came to Britain via the Normans around 1000 AD after which his story was quickly absorbed into the legend of Father Christmas, who by this time had already been around for centuries. The earliest Father Christmas appeared during ancient British mid-winter festivals. He wasn't known as Father Christmas then, of course, but as a general pagan figure (think: the Green Man) who represented the coming of spring. He would wear a long, green hooded cloak and a wreath of holly, ivy or mistletoe. It is the association with holly and mistletoe, and his ability to lift people's spirits, that we retain from this ancient Father Christmas:
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=flynn_27_1 http://www.calvarymemorial.com/ponder/display_ponderthis.asp?ArticleID=323 http://web.sunybroome.edu/bccweekly/xmaswar.html http://www.sdreader.com/published/2005-01-06/sheep.html http://www.cleburnetimesreview.com/homepage/local_story_348161719.html http://thecrookedcervix.blogs.com/thecrookedcervix/2005/12/bill_oreillys_b.html http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=126&tid=35079243 http://www.anchoryourlife.com/devotions/december_11.htm http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/christmas_secularisation.html there you go nexxo, some reading material. Take a look at the end of the last quote, may explain why this is only becoming news to you now,(i say that with the assumption that you are in the uk) where as I first heard about this a few years back. and I know that you said specifically who are these people, but alas I wasn't able to find any names.
Nice reading, but still most refer to people (usually them "Liberals" or them "Seculars") worrying that "they" of other denominations may/do not approve. Who are "they"? All the people who are mentioned specifically to object to 'Merry Christmas' are a few WHITE PEOPLE or mainstream institutions. No ethnic minorities: no Muslims, no Jews, no Hindus, no Sikhs. Only the sixth link mentions the view of someone of non-Christian denomination, and that is hardly representative for all Jews. All that the rest of these links do is mention the same vague myths like "Liberals (and it is always 'Liberals') want to ban Christmas not to offend people of other religious or ethnic backgrounds." Who are the 'Liberals'? Who are the 'people of different ethnic/religious backgrounds' they allegedly worry about offending? Who actually complained?
Still don't get what your saying? Anyway, at the end of the day, Christmas for me and the majority of the people I know is basically one of the best parts of the year, few weeks off, present swapping, getting pissed, can't be better.
Are you looking for names of people? do you think that coming up with something like that is even possible? The reason that this is happening is because some people complain by making phone calls, sending letter, complants, etc. Eventually people take notice of the complaints and in an effort not to offend anyone, it becomes politically correct to start saying "happy holidays". this spread to retail stores who dont want to lose a customer becuase they have offended them. Other customers take notice and decide that they should walk on egg shells as well as to make sure that they dont offend someone who does not celebrate christmas. One site that I came across mentioned again this is being done to make sure that no one is offended by the displays. And I dont think that it is right to say that one religous group is responsible for this because it does not come down to a group of people. its just another classic case of some people who complain about something and end up ruining it for everyone else. As for the point of this thread, I am still going to say "merry christmas" and "ho ho ho" for as long as I want. If someone takes offence by that, then I really dont care. If someone takes offence to me trying to be friendly, its not my problem.
Personally I think if you find Christmas or the phrases offensive, bugger off to a country that doesn't celebrate it.
Personally I think that if you insist on taking offence where none is given, bugger off and leave the rest of us to get on with our lives.
^ You can really pack a lot of scraped substance into a discussion that you think you know not much about. It was better off without your lengthy input.
I'm looking for concrete evidence, not vague stories. It seems to me that shops, councils etc. are taking measures based on their own prejudicial assumptions rather than facts: And the outraged parties are buying into them. Pardon me for questioning assumptions. I thought that was the whole point of debate. But if you don't like my opinions, you can always read the Sun or Daily Mail.
I take it they belong to those ranting numnuts (no offence) that surfaces each year (on the other side of the Atlantic) with their perverted modus operandi of disturbing the equilibrium by creating a problem that didn’t exist in the fist place. Doesn’t work on this side of the pond though, so I hope that we shall be spared further perverted rants of this nature in the future. Than again; I never did learn that feeding the trolls is like poring petrol on a fire when attempting to put it out. And with that I'm out for now, need a cooling of period beacuse people like this has a tendency to bring out the worst in me which is something I don't like. Merry Christmas in advance, no offence. Pax Added: Over here Muslims and Jews take no offence for the sole reason of no offence given. Roots for thought, addressed towards my fanatical fellow human beings whom happens to claim victim hood status. Disclaimer: blood sugar level extremely low at the moment, and that admittedly; tends to put me in a cranky mode.
heres a fact, http://www.canoe.ca/mb2/messages/cnewsf/13597.html I cant find the link that buddy got the news from but I have a more trusting nature than some people do. http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/strange/news-article.aspx?storyid=48553 schools trying to be politically correct. the biggest problem with your request for concrete evidence that isn't vague is that all of this happened back in 2004-2005, and in terms of the internet, thats a long time. most pages that I find at news sites listed on google and yahoo just goto a 404 error. this thread on another forum has 2 links for example and both are dead links http://www.ummah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=47349 Regardless, even if you dont want to admit it or accept it, this did happen/is happening. Like I said before, its not something that has really spread to europe so I can see how you haven't heard of it before. but as you can see from the first post I made, it is still something that is happening. Even if it has changed appearences and is now something that is attacking different sayings like "hohoho". and besides, all the links that I posted before, are indirect empirical evidence based on observation that leads to the conclusion that this is true. and I could of gone crazy and put a lot more links but it would of taken a long time and wasted a lot of room. here's another link that doesn't show any concrete evidence but comes from the Boston Globe so I would hope that it does have some credibility http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/12/27/what_happy_holidays/ here's another one with no "concrete evidence" but comes from ABC news so again it does have some credit to it. http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1358020 and note that both storys are from the 2004-2005 time period. another one from fox news (less credit because its fox...) http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1358020 and yet another from cbc http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/holidays/xmas_vs_holidays.html I could go on, but I hope that with some links (even if they are old) from news sources that this will be enough proof that "happy holidays" instead of "merry christmas" was/is a problem. (for people who consider it to be a problem, i dont because I'm going to say merry christmas and not even blink if someone gets upset about it.)
I'm with chrisb2e9 on this one. It was just last year (or probably the year or two earlier) that some activists in Toronto didn't like what we referred to our Winter holiday and decided to 'correct' "Christmas" to "Holiday". They even went as far as, if I remember correctly, removing the star from City Hall's Christmas tree--sorry, "Holiday" tree. Why, when something was perfectly fine the way it was, would someone decide to cock it all up? I, along with the vast majority of local residents, never cared much for the pseudo-religious connection with Christianity and wouldn't care much if it were a portmanteau of a savior of some other faith. If the name works now and has worked for many years prior, then it should have been left alone. (Canadian municipal politics is a real flop anyway, the way I see it, so they can really flip-flop on anything.) Why don't you just write to the Sun or Daily Mail, then? I'm sure there's plenty of discussion which print media incites that you can lambaste, rather than a community discussion about Holiday pseudonyms.
I don't think I am making myself clear. | have no doubt that some moronic councilmen a shop managers feel the need to ban Christmas out of a misplaced fear that some ethnic minority may take offense. However I still do not see any proof that any ethnic minority is taking offense. Yet everybody is outraged and ready the point "those foreigners" to the exit out of their country. I thought people were smarter than that. My mistake.
