In what schools? Where from? How would you like them to learn this language before coming to our country? And as for France... You'd move in a heartbeat if you were ducking bullets, starving, getting your money stolen by the police at gunpoint, or any of the other wonderful things that some of these people deal with. In fact, if you heard in France that people would PAY you, and regularly I might add, for the work you do and you would be able to buy food for yourself and/or your family AND their police don't even steal it all...why, I think language might be the last concern on your list.
Let me qualify my statement. I didn't mean to imply before they come here. I'm prefectly happy if people made a good attempt at learning basic conversational skills while they are here. That way I can see that they are making strides to become part of the culture, while mixing in their own flavor. There are schools in the south that are considering having multi-language classes because of the influx of non-english speaking students. To me, that's unacceptable. Maybe so and believe me, I can understand the thought process of wanting to risk their life to do so. The France thing was just a comparison thing, not literal. If I were to move to Mexico, I would make an attempt at learning to speak Spanish. If they want to change our system of immigration, they need to become part of our system and that means getting citizenship, learning the language and having a grasp at the American legal and political system. The only way they can do that is to be a legal immigrant. As it stands now, the Mexican border is a joke with the drug smuggling, human trafficing and violence. I fully believe that this is so mainly because it is so porrous.
Though I agree with your points in principle, this still goes back to the fact that if we would make the process easier, more would be legal. They can't learn english when they can't enroll in a class without being thrown out of the country. They can't educate their kids to learn it if they don't know it. And the kid grows up feeling split between two worlds, and is more likely to feel safer in the world of their parents, who can't integrate. These people DON'T WANT to live this way...it's just a hell of a lot better than the alternative. If we change our immigration processes to make it a more effective and welcoming system, then those who do come to us can become legal and thus contribute. Essentially, you keep making my arguments for me, but then tell me you don't believe in the result. You want more integration, you like the legal immigrants, you acknowledge the societal benefit of them...but when it comes to actually making the illegals legal or increasing (or maybe even doing away with?) quotas, you balk. You can't get something for nothing...
and wuts wrong with knowing spanish? here in schools they all offer spanish since elementary schools and yes sum, schools offer bilingual classes since kindergarden. the problem is that my school is 50% percent mexican 30% asian/filipino 10% black and 10% white i think those are the stats of my school if i remember correctly. and here no one minds knowing spanish and most of the mexicans speak english. in elementtary school there were people who didnt know english but by 6th grade most could carry a full conversation. also there are people who goto english school everyday after work to try and adapt. its not that they dont want to learn its that they cant learn. theres a big difference
I don't think I'm making your arguments, I believe that they are similar, but with different slants. I'm all for making illegals legal AS LONG AS they are productive members of society and they make a conceded effort at becoming part of the greater community and maybe inject a bit of their own culture. It seems that many times, not all times, this isn't the case. It seems that many of them transplant their society into a community and not make an attempt to blend into the community. As far as the quotas, fine, raise them or eliminate them, but do so on a contingency basis. If you come to the US, you better be prepared to adapt to our local culture and be a productive member of society. If you don't, you go back to where ever you came from. If you do, after a certain amount of time, you qualify for citizenship. Think of it like a probationary period. I had to go through a 6-month probationary period when I started working, I don't think asking an immigrant, who supposidly wants to live/work here, for a few years of being on a probationary period is too much to ask. This probationary period could include free English, social & basic legal classes or something so they understand our socity more. You're right, I can't get something for nothing, but neither should illegal immigrants.. There's nothing erong with speaking spanish. In fact, my youngest son is taking spanish classes in school and my oldest is taking French. I'm talking about the students who ONLY speak spanish.
Now THAT is something I would be willing to vote for. Open the doors, but you stay for a probationary period and after a set time get to be a citizen. I see nothing wrong with that at all. And if you provide services like you describe, I think you would have your wish of injecting a little culture into our society, instead of injecting their whole society into our culture. And you need to change that picture to a BROWNS helmet, buddy. Isn't it great that it's football season again?
Legally, and from The Free Country Of United States - The True Democratic Countrie's perspective it would be really hard to pass laws that would force immigrants to learn english. However I agree with Dad, people should at least attempt to learn the language before moving to foreign country. Show some damn respect. If you come here without trying to fade in, but start jumping into people's faces saying that the government is supposed to create a good environment for you without you giving nothing to the society is not only offensive but it is stupid too. I respect and thank U.S. just for letting me live here and study. I will later pay much for it though taxes. I learned English from second grade in school, then in fourth I started learning German, and when I came to US I did not have many problems (except the slang and accent). Especially when English is such a simple language with comparably many tenses but very little grammer rules. A little respect can make world different.
Argh!... As Da Dego already explained, that's because THEY CAN'T! I'm sorry, but wasn't that what I was proposing several posts up? Now that's a slogan all countries should take to heart...
Note, in my post I didn't say that after a certain amount of time they would be a citizen, I said they would qualify to become a citizen. I'm almost looking at this like how new hires are treated where I work. When I was hired, I went through a probationary period and then had a formal review by my direct supervisor and the CIO and go through a review process every year. After the immigrant goes through their probationary period, they should not be granted citizenship untill they go through a review process at which, if approved, will go through the motions of citizenship as it stands now. However, I don't think it should end there. After they do all that, they would become a sort of "junior citizen" where they have all the rights a full citizen has, but still in a probationary capacity. After a period of time, again after a review, they can qualify for full citizenship. By doing it this way, I think that we can lower or maybe eliminate quotas, but still weed out the "undesirables" like terrorists, criminals and such because only the people who actually want to be here will complete the process. Yea maybe I'm being a hard ass, but personally the only people I want to come to this country are the ones who are willing to be an upstanding member of society. Ugh. The Brownies. Notice WHO the pic is? I knew you were from Cinci, but didn't put the two things together. Actually, you know what? I think I hate the Pats more than the Browns or the Ravens now... I'm still ticked about that Steelers/Pats game. You know about the game clock snafu right? Whoa, slow down there cheeko... I know they can't. I said that I was all for them becoming legal given stipulations which I outlined in a subsequent post. Maybe, I missed some pages and was too lazy to go back and read them all.
Not sure if I agree on the "junior" citizenship portion. The rest I'm quite alright with. CINCI?! Cleveland, dear sir...the birthplace of the NFL. Don't attribute me to the Bungles, please...they actually seem to be having a winning season. We Browns fans don't remember what that's like! You betcha. It hurt to watch the Steelers go down...much as we have grudge matches with them, truth is they're a great team with great talent. And when Cleveland lost their football team, Pittsburgh stood by us. And now that it's back, you can buy Browns jerseys in Steelers shops. That's love, man. I love to see them win, right up until they play the Browns...then, for 3 hours, I REALLY hate those $@#!s. Back ON topic...surely you couldn't have missed my argument, which has been static since like page 2 that quotas should be removed or significantly raised...
Whoops, that's what I ment. I was thinking Cinci because of how good they are playing this year. Hell, they're in 1st place in teh AFC North! Yea, I was mad when the Browns left - kind of killed one of the oldest traditions and rivalries in the nfl. It's fantastic that they're back, but for some reason, it's not quite the same.. You know? However, there is a fantastic tradition between the two teams. Remember back around '93/'94 when they both were in the playoffs? That was fun to watch with the Dept of Transportation getting involved, I only wish I was closer to Pitt to enjoy the rivalry... Nope, didn't miss your point I would agree to raising or maybe eliminating them, BUT only if a new system were put into place. This would also include securing the boarder better than it is now..
this is off topic, atleast my chargers killed the patriots something the steelers couldnt do, and dad the steelers are losing monday
Oh god a Chargers fan.. I'M SURROUNDED BY THE ENEMY!!! I really hope that Monday is a good game - it should be with the Chargers favored by 3, but I think after losing to the Patsies 2 weeks ago and coming off a bye, we'll be ready.. Pffft!!! I blame Da Dego for this off-topicness....
Naah, my wife reckons it's just that we men cannot focus on anything that doesn't involve sex, technology, beer or sports for more than five seconds. I aim to prove her wrong: One. Two Three. Four. Five. Sex --oh, darn!
Pffft!!! (nice response, eh? ) Hehe. See, Nexxo, my count goes more like: 1..sex..2..tech..sex, oops, I mean, 3...beer...footba--er, 4...sex and beer...5. See? I can prove your wife wrong...I don't get distracted by sex, beer, sports, or technology...I get distracted by ALL of them. /EDIT: Mmmm, that beer looks like Guinness...YUM...
Hmmm, could it be time to close the thread? it seems we've reached a peaceful solution for all parties, and we're now talking about football, beer, and sex. Not that I mind any of those, but they have NOTHING to do with Mexicans.
ok lets talk about mexicans in the NFL ok luis castillo the charger hes pretty good. or how bout the 40ers vs. cardinals game in mexico city that has to do with mexicans
