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Hardware Microsoft BlueTrack - under the hood

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Tim S, 28 Feb 2009.

  1. Tim S

    Tim S OG

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  2. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    uh huh?




    Fail!

    Processing images at 13KHz, then passing over USB at 0.5KHz... Fab!
     
  3. eXpander

    eXpander New Member

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    Very nice topic, unfortunately the article was kinda superficial. I wish there was more info on the BlueTrack technology.

    Should've pasted some info from the "Gaming Mouse Roundup", so people don't have to read two articles in order to better understand it.
     
  4. jsheff

    jsheff New Member

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    I think that although the mouse is capable of processing the numvers 13,000 times a second (14kHz), it only sends the data 500 times a second (0.5kHz). Besides, how much can you move a mouse in 0.002 seconds before you start complaining about lag?! Or are you capable of moving you hand faster, requiring the full 0.0000769 updates/sec?
     
  5. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    All marketing hype for kiddies who like big numbers and bragging rights.

    I can tell just by looking at that mouse it will feel awful compared to the smooth, ergonomic shape of the G5.

    Maybe it's all down to the shape of your hand, and size also, but I find these hard edged, angular designs uncomfortable.

    Like I said in the last post... what IS the point of making a mouse that can process images at such a high sample rate if it's just crippled by a 500Hz transfer rate over USB? Why even bother?

    I'm sure retards and braggers will love it, but anyone who can do rudimentary maths will see it for what it is: A waste of time. I bet it costs more than the G5 anyway.

    Also, using a LED is highly unlikely to offer better optical performance than a laser because you're essentially using a light source of more than one wavelength, and this results in chromatic aberrations and inconsistencies when focusing. A laser is a very narrow band source of a single wavelength that can be focused more precisely. It's for this reason that you have a laser in optical drives, DVD players etc.


    Oh wait.... but it's BLOOOOO.

    LOL


    Is this guy for real??? LOL

    A: It's black light, not blue, and B, the black light only makes things fluoresce after being treated with a solution called luminol, which makes the iron in organic substances glow under UV. Try it with a "blue" light and nothing will happen.

    What exactly is "specular" optics? LOL I notice there's no explanation as to what exactly that means.

    At best, I'm sceptical.
     
    Last edited: 28 Feb 2009
  6. Mentai

    Mentai New Member

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    "Here we delve into the technology behind the numbers."

    Yeah... was expecting to read a little more than just marketing. Surely there's nothing here that can't be found on their website? Disappointing.
     
  7. ChaosDefinesOrder

    ChaosDefinesOrder Vapourmodder

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    you guys don't seem to know much before making these comments! firstly blue LEDs do give off some UV light, I know first hand because I work in printing and we use blue LED key lights to silhouette the paper from the barely visible yellow or white inks. so yeah a blue LED will give off UV.

    Again, known from my job, there's a definite difference between processing 13000 images a second and sending the data at 500Hz. Optical mice work by scanning the images
    taken for changes and translating those changes as movement. the mouse then sends the movement data to the PC. it doesn't send the raw data/images! so basically it it is processing 16 images to calculate position and movement data per transmission of coordinate data to the PC. otherwise it would be sending 13000 images a second to the PC then getting the PC to process them at that frequency which would be very data intensive and CPU hogging!
     
  8. azrael-

    azrael- I'm special...

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    Just to clarify something. The mouse always operates in wireless mode. The cord is merely there to charge the mouse. There was a quite comprehensive test of the Sidewinder X8 in German c't Magazin issue 05/2009 on page 77.
     
  9. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    That wasn't my problem, it was making a comparison to a totally different process altogether.. that was my problem.

    Also, this is a stupid argument as how many surfaces need a mouse with the ability to highlight UV sensitive pigments and objects? I dunno about you, but I just use the surface my my desk. How would this benefit me?

    My other problem was this "Specular" optics issue. What is it? Unless someone can clarify this, I'm going to have to assume that it's just marketing hype, as that diagram on the first page looks no different from how pretty much all optical mice work.

    I still maintain that using a laser is going to produce superior results until someone can actually explain what "specular" optics actually means.
     
  10. DougEdey

    DougEdey I pwn all your storage

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    Is it the 1st April already?
     
  11. Fod

    Fod what is the cheesecake?

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    ever thought that maybe the *mouse* was doing the image processing? ;)

    all you're sending over USB is X/Y/wheel tickup/down signals, and button events. the fact they can pass these over USB at 500Hz is, frankly, not exactly mindblowing.

    i assume it processes so many images at once to filter out jitter - you use the results of a number of captures per event to give you a reliable motion reading.
     
  12. mauvecloud

    mauvecloud New Member

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    Can a human actually produce that much acceleration on a mouse? According to http://www.baseball-almanac.com/chapters/cap-ch2.shtml, the highest acceleration during a fastball pitch is 2291.67 ft/sec2, which is about 698.50 m/sec2.
     
  13. nickinUK

    nickinUK New Member

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    I've had a couple of gaming experances that have produced probably simular mouse pitching figures but normally the results are the purchace of a new mouse.
    Still would be nice to see if it can still track accuratly as it goes through the window....
     
  14. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

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    Bingo. 500Hz is more than enough for decent, reliable tracking in the computer, but if you want proper motion analysis then 13kHz or whatever is perfectly reasonable, and probably quite necessary. Not to mention the extra resolution from using a blue rather than red/infrared light source.

    What I want to know is will they be putting that tech into a sensibly priced non-"gamer" oriented mouse anytime soon? I'm not paying £90 for a mouse, even if it gives you sexual favours.
     
  15. Fod

    Fod what is the cheesecake?

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    are you sure about that? seems like such a mouse would be pretty good value for money...
     
  16. Nicb

    Nicb Let's discuss among ourselves

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    I like what I'm hearing hear, this is a smarter mouse. But again like I said in my other post, I can not ask for more in my Logitech MX Revolution. I paid $99 and it does everything with out complaint. After reading this article I tested my mouse just to see where it lacked. I would be amazed to see a "noticeable" difference between the X8 and mine. I used a mouse pad :p, my glass covered desk, book, paper, my shirt, plastic, and carpet, and saw no difference. Then I took my mouse back 9 to 10 feet and used it on the carpet before I started to see a slight lack in response because of the distance. 6 to 8 feet works great on carpet. This mouse works very well with every day applications even knows what your working with to auto change its settings. I'm a gamer too, almost play every night, I've had gaming mice, and the MX is far better than what I've had. I think gaming mice are half gimmick.
    I would like to see comparison test between some popular "high end" and "high performance" mice. Lets see if all this really makes a difference or not. I'm thinking not really. Maybe I just need to own one to know the difference........ or read a comparison review. :)
     
  17. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    I agree.. It will make no difference. You're paying £40 more than most other mice for the right to say "It can track while enduring 75G!.. ZOMG!"!!!!!11111"


    This is just all marketing hype.
     
  18. Sark.inc

    Sark.inc New Member

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    Jesus Christ, you read that and came straight to the comments didn't you?

     
  19. Gremlin

    Gremlin New Member

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    Your a bit off the mark here, while you are right that luminol reacts with blood to luminesce under UV light but pretty much you need to wear orange glasses to see it best so it doesnt just do it on its own with luminol

    on its own can be used to see other fluids and even creatures etc and some thigns on their own flouresce under UV light , ever shone a black light on something white, or seen how a scorpion lights up for example?

    also a black light isnt all thats used, they also use whats called an Alternate Light Source or ALS which shows light at differing wave lengths to see different things

    so for all we know the wave length put out by the blue LED is good enough for picking up surface inconsistancies to use to track movement, whatever it is they have made it work so props to them
     
  20. quake1-rules

    quake1-rules New Member

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    The primary 'fail' here is your ignorance in how a mouse determines movement before that movement can ever be sent over the USB/wireless connection. So in this case, the mouse takes 26 samples to determine 1/500th of a second of movement. Makes sense to me.
     
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