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News Microsoft knew about Xbox 360 disc scratching?

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by CardJoe, 16 Dec 2008.

  1. CardJoe

    CardJoe Freelance Journalist

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  2. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    Sorry, don't care.

    It states, everywhere, that moving the console DURING OPERATION will cause disk damage.

    It's pretty ****ing obvious that you don't move something with a spinning disk in it.

    Don't give me this 'accidentally knocked over' crap, because that's your fault for standing it vertically somewhere where it could get knocked over.

    Mine have both been vertical and horizontal in their lives, and I have yet to lose a disk to scratching. I've yet to have one knocked over. I lived with three chocolate labs, all completely nuts, and very capable of knocking stuff over (Buster knocked a table over once), and a klutz of a mother - Both consoles survived that vertically.

    Take care of your console and this is not an issue. At all. In any aspect.

    Edit: As a side note, the current sold consoles would cost 5.5million (Assuming 22million consoles, at 25pence per console) to have these rubber 'buffers' which would just scuff disks anyway. Check the custom installs of them, usually four rubber pads, for more info from people who've gone through the effort to see what happens.
     
  3. kylew

    kylew New Member

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    Don't be so narrow minded. At 25p per console? It's something they should have done. Just because you don't knock your console about, doesn't mean that it's impossible for it to happen to anyone else. Kids have xboxes you know? They're not known to be the most careful of people. Or what about people with young kids who like to touch and mess about with anything they can get their hands on? Talk about cheaping out. They could have just done it and added £5 onto their sale price, no-one would have been aware of anything.
     
  4. perplekks45

    perplekks45 LIKE AN ANIMAL!

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    I have to agree with liratheal here. My 360 is standing under the TV in a rack, secure and easily accessible. But even if you don't have a TV rack, there's always a place to put it so nothing can happen. If all else fails put it down. If it lies it can't be knocked over.
    And yeah, kids... how many games are there for kids anyways? We're not talking about the Wii are we? :p
     
  5. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    Sorry but that argument is ****.

    Playing your console during an earthquake, or a hurricane, could cause damage to it. Does that mean Microsoft should pay for repairs to a console that was damaged through user stupidity?

    If you have kids, it's your responsibility to make sure your console is properly placed to avoid damage. It's not that hard - Put it out of reach. If you buy your kid an xbox, and he/she damages it because he/she cannot follow simple instructions (As a parent I'd read the manual and give them a list of do's and don'ts - I know kids don't like reading manuals, I never did like it either), then it's their own damned fault.

    What part of anyone, with any common sense, would stand the console veritcally around kids, or other accident prone beings (Animals, klutzes)? What part of anyone with any common sense would move the console during use?

    It's in the manual. It's common sense. It's not like they didn't tell anyone. It's in the manual, which is bundled with every console shipped, is online, and is recommended reading before the console is used. If people choose not to take the time to read the 20-odd pages that's in their language, then it's their own damned fault, not Microsofts.
     
  6. asphinx

    asphinx New Member

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    liratheal, I am happy for your sake. If you have had no issues with scratched disk (related to Xbox 360 of course) then you should consider yourself lucky.
    Myself, not as much. Having NEVER moved the console during operation or hardly otherwise for that matter, I have still suffered damaged discs. Nor has it never been knocked over, or even knocked at all. Sometimes I think I'm a bit too anal with my technology. :p (I agree, that if you're dumb enough to move anything whilst there's a disc spinning inside of it, well you pretty much deserve everything you had comin').
    I'm still so lucky that the discs in question are still readable, ergo usable. My friend is not as lucky, same conditions but his Halo 3 disc won't work anymore and unfortunately for him. He can't even install it to the hard drive (NXE Update).

    My side note, as a counter-argument to yours. Wouldn't it be cheaper in the long run, to have made the drives LESS faulty, ergo not having to later on reimburse costumers for faulty hardware? And that's not even calculating in the costs of public relations when the costumer feels like he just got pissed in the face by Microsoft. Excuse by harsh language.
     
  7. chiper136

    chiper136 New Member

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    Whist his attitude is kinda s****y I have to agree. I have had my 360 for years with no issues and this includes times I have taken it to a friends house forgetting to take the disk out.

    My issues is still with the RROD. You can't argue that away.
     
  8. shigllgetcha

    shigllgetcha Come at me bro

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    it wasnt through movin the console while it was on they mean disc movement while its in the tray. not moving the console

    if they only got 55,000 thousand complaints im sure its cheaper to fix it afterwards
     
  9. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    That's an entirely different situation, though. These people are moaning because they moved their console while it was running, and the disks got scratched.

    You and your friend, if there was honest to god no movement of the console, are in a position where a complaint can be sensibly made. If you were suing, then I'd be concerned for your state of mind, but complaint and request of free repair (As it is entirely the hardware, not you) would be within reason.

    The rubber pads don't solve anything with 100% certainty - It's been demonstrated by custom installed rubber pads that have been installed by aftermarket packs of rubber buffers.
     
  10. kylew

    kylew New Member

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    I think some of you have completely missed the point. It would have cost an additional 25p, less than a decent chocolate bar, to implement something that would mean discs didn't get scratched at all? How is that difficult to understand? It's bizzare that would be ommited for the sake of 25p.

    As I said ealier, regardless of what you like to believe, just because you haven't had the issue, it doesn't mean that some one is stupid if it happens to them. Like I said, there's many reasons and ways for someone's console to accidentally move while in operation.

    And for the sake of 25p, it wouldn't be an issue, what's so hard to understand about that?
     
  11. DragunovHUN

    DragunovHUN I want to change my name but I also don't

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    I'm with liratheal on this one.
     
  12. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    As I have said, twice now, the aftermarket rubber stoppers that are available do not eliminate the problem 100%. So they would have embarked on this 5.5 million pound adventure to do what, exactly?

    Oh, right, still have a lawsuit filed against them by, probably, the same people.

    And, sorry, but if you put your console in a position where something could knock it over, then you are stupid. Or so careless that it passes as stupid. Either way - It is entirely your fault and not Microsofts, and as such, not Microsofts responsibility to fix it.
     
  13. asphinx

    asphinx New Member

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    You would be concerned for my state of mind? May I ask why? And to answer the question you really didn't ask, no I'm not suing nor have I any intent of suing as of right now. As previously stated the discs that are scratched are still usable and therefore I see no reason to pursue well.. anything from Microsoft. If or more likely when any of my discs stop working then I will complain and seek reimbursement for my damaged discs.
    To make matters easier I pretty sure (based on no predisposed knowledge, basically guessing) that someone with sufficient expertise can quickly determine whether the damaged to my discs are based on console movement, or due to disc rotation.

    As for people moving their console while it was running, clearly not considering the repercussions of their actions, well I can only feel sorry for them slightly for not reading the manual. Don't buy a cow if you don't know how to milk it.

    As for the rubber pads, I will not comment at all as I have no information currently available to determine whether your claim is of accurate nature or not. Also they are irrelevant to me, as I was thinking more in the lines of manufacturing a decent dvd drive to begin with, not solving a faulty product with after market parts. I will however nevertheless take your claim for some worth and consider NOT installing these previously mentioned parts.
     
  14. Xir

    Xir Well-Known Member

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    "The rubber pads don't solve anything with 100% certainty "
    No...but other manufacturers can for the same price.

    How many PC-drives regularly sratch disks? How many laptop drives (which do move about) scratch disks? They're hardly scarce

    MS sadly just didn't care.
     
  15. kylew

    kylew New Member

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    Thank you! How many people use laptops, on their laps, while there's a spinning disc in it? You move about, it's inevitable, same goes for portable DVD players and CD players.

    As the a £5.5 million 'quest', that's pocket money to MS, especially considering the total cost of manufacturing, which you've obviously overlooked.

    So, £5.5 million, that's what, 22 million xboxes made and sold. Xboxes cost at least £100 each to manufacture, so that's what, £2.2 Billion total to manufacture the current xboxes out there. 25p per xbox is at least a quarter of a percent of total manufacturing costs.

    It might not stop it 100%, but stop being so ignorant to think that it's impossible for it to happen unless you're an idiot.

    Before you think I'm defending myself, I'm not, I don't have an xbox, I have refused to buy one until they sort out the major issues they've been having with them.

    This is just one manufacturing problem of a whole host of others.

    I've never had a disc drive scratch any discs of mine in the 12+ years of me using discs. I must have gone through a few thousand discs and it's never happened once.

    I generally don't move my consoles, but sometimes you might have to. I've had consoles that have overheated and started skipping, flipping it over, while still on sorted this issue out. Again, 0 ruined discs due to my drives.

    Back to laptops, they generally get moved and bumped about quite a bit, so for a laptop to not mess up discs due to movement, but an xbox does, even while stationary, there's something wrong there.
     
  16. flibble666

    flibble666 sorry i am dyslexic

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    idouts all ways need warnings there one on boomerangs saying they come back on coffe cups saying there hot when heated companys will always have to deal with people that cant work out that if you move you 360 when the disc is spinning u'll scratch it if ms had added the 25p fix for this it wuld just have stoped the idouts shouting from the roof tops theres a warning on the 360 cd tray saying do not move console when playing a game yet people still seen to think its a good idear and a way to get a free replacment game for one they probly treated like crap and wont work then scrach it hoping for a freeby or even more

    its the same as wii straps if u swig it to fast or hevy handedly of corse the friken strap will brake and probly fly throw your telly if people are to stupid to be careful with expensive products they deserve everything they get well appart from the people that win court cases
     
  17. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    I generally get concerned when anyone sues anyone for anything these days - What with so many pointless lawsuits, and when it comes to a scartched disk, it's a little worrying that people are willing to fork over piles of cash to get some new disks.

    I'm sure an expert could tell you what and how the damage to your disks was caused, but I'd expect that to cost a bit to get done :D

    I've spent huge amounts of my time in the 360 modding area, and while the rubber pads can be effective, they're not perfect. It's akin to the R/S6000 and its harddrives - They need to be formatted according to how they are arranged, horizontal or vertical, so as to determine the ideal position for the heads. Moving a spinning disk from one axis to another without giving it a chance to assess where it is, especially when the disk is not secured to the spindle (as is the case with the 360), or even slow the rotation down, is just asking for trouble.

    To be honest, I'm amazed that none of these clowns have damaged the laser unit itself, as some of them seem to have done it more than once.

    I think you'll find that there is a huge difference in the design of laptop drives and the 360 drive. As for PC drives, how often do you move your PC horizonal-vertical or visa-versa?

    Laptop drives, portable DVD players, portable CD players etc, all lock the disc into position on the spindle - It's common place for those portable devices, which are intended for use on the move. The Xbox 360 was never designed for use on the move. That was never part of its spec, and never will be. It is designed to be stationary. And 99.9% of the time, the drive works absolutely perfectly when stationary.

    Why build in a contingency for it to be able to deal with being mobile when the device is designed solely as a stationary device?

    It'd be like giving a house, a normal two story house, a set of wheels.

    You say flipping the console over - I assume that you are refering to the Ps1 and 2 - Both of which had very similar drive designs to laptops - The CD/DVD is attached to the spindle. Same with the Gamecube - That can be run in any which direction you so desire, because the CD is locked to the spindle.

    I think you'll find that more often than not the people who have scratched disks have moved the console while operational. That is the key word: While operational. I've taken two 360's, with games in the drive, to a friends house (Via a train), with no issue - Moving the console while it is operating is a sure fire way to scratch the disks - It happens with the PS3, too, even though the drive design is massively different, being a slot loader.

    Just an FYI: I'm not trying to say that MS do care, just that they are not entirely to blame for this - User stupidity plays a HUGE role in this situation. Microsoft should not be expected to pay for accidents that you or your family caused around the home - They are not an insurance company. I don't care what accident occured to cause the scratched disk - It's your responsibility to ensure that accident couldn't have happened.

    ~55,000 people have complained, ~55,000 of ~22 million is not that many - I would suggest that is a good enough number to put it almost entirely down to user error. Had the number been around 11 million, then I would agree that there is a massive manufacturing fault. It's not, though, and thus, I am happy to stand by my belief that the whole thing is user stupidity.
     
  18. flibble666

    flibble666 sorry i am dyslexic

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  19. scarrmrcc

    scarrmrcc New Member

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    hey, honda knows that if you hit a tree at 30kph you break your bumper, should they fix it for free?
    no.

    in the manual it says that you should not reposition the system while a disk in it. if it falls over, that is your fault. DON"T STAND IT UP IF IT MIGHT FALL OVER WHERE IT IS.

    i can sum up the sillyness with one group of words:
    McDonalds, old lady, coffee, hot lawsuit, stupid.
     
  20. DougEdey

    DougEdey I pwn all your storage

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    Actually the coffee was something ridiculous like 180-190F compared to 135-145F that other places serve coffee at, the woman suffered significant scalding burns to her body, the woman also had 20% of her damages removed because she was partly at fault.

    McDonalds at the time had 700+ claims which proved they knew about it but had refused to do anything!
     
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