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News Microsoft's Surface hits trouble

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Gareth Halfacree, 16 Nov 2012.

  1. fdbh96

    fdbh96 New Member

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    Ahh sorry, getting my figures mixed up :D

    Either way a lot more tablets are being sold now that when the ipad launched.
     
  2. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Not necessarily, because there is some really good competition out there from the iPad, which already has a massive ecosystem. Why risk something new when you can go with what you know?
     
  3. rollo

    rollo Well-Known Member

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    The main reason i always here that the ipad has sold well is because Apple has a legion of fans who will buy anything.

    If they have 100million fans then Apple must be laughing all the way to the bank.

    Most of the other tablets have failed for 3-4 major reasons.

    Lack of dedicated tablet applications ( Major problem on Andriod for a while till late last year)

    Too expensive ( Rims playbook, Surface RT spring to mind both cost alot to develop and have both not broke even. Rims playbook took the company towards the brink and cost alot of people there jobs.)

    Lack of advertisement ( Most tablets are not advertised, Microsoft Surface advertisement is none existant after the initial 2months that it had, Microsoft is blaming OEMs for tablet sales numbers not been good, That to me says Microsoft does not want to put the effort into getting the tablets to be a success)

    Not many stores stock the things ( Outside of Apples Ipad the Tablets that are on offer in HMV and PC world are both Cheap and rubbish and not really selling at all. Rims playbook was sold in pc world but it never sold anyway, Only John lewis in the uk in stocking the Surface which makes it a very difficult buy for many)

    Apple has done most of the above correct since the launch of the orginal Ipad. It is still expensive in the eyes of many but all Apple products are.

    Tablet market this year is expected to be between 170 mil and 180 mil units. Apple is expected to sell 100mil of this.

    No high end tablet has succeeded at all. The nexus 7 and kindle fire both sell because they are cheaper products and the Ipad is more than the person wanted to pay in the first place.

    At the high end of the market you have 2-3 tablets trying to take down an Ipad and between the 3 of them they have sales below 5mil units. ( nexus 10inch, Samsungs tablet, Surface RT)

    We will not see a Surface RT 2 is the current rumours around the internet as the orginal one has not broken even. ( when your product fails to break even its a failure) The dev costs where very high for the surface + high initial advertisement costs, And also the pop up stores that they had. There break even is estimated to be 2-3million units sold by most sites. ( they have estimated to have sold 600k to 900k units)
     
  4. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    First, never buy the rumours.

    The tablet was a good idea waiting to happen since 1997, when the internet became a mainstream thing. The technology was just not ready. Apple was the first to really make an effort into developing a well-balanced, purposeful device. The iPhone was in fact an offspring of the iPad (then at prototype stage), quickly responding to the sudden surge in the mobile telephone market, not the other way around.

    Other tablets have struggled against this head start. Android was unrefined for years; then it was as expensive as an iPad which, frankly, was not enough reason for people to switch from an established, and through the iPhone proven and familiar ecosystem.

    Apple also already had its own distribution system through websites and physical shops. It already had an established supply and manufacture chain. It already had a media distribution infrastructure. Google had an information infrastructure, but no manufacturing infrastructure and no shops. Microsoft has the software cornered, but little manufacturing and few shops. And whereas Jobs was a ****ing visionary and an autocrat who could make Apple move in the right direction at a moment's notice, all other companies are lumbering behemots by comparison. Especially Microsoft which is rife with in-fighting teams and committees, and Balmer is an administrator, not a visionary leader. It is still debating whether to release Outlook on Surface RT while they have already produced it. In Apple, Jobs would have either said "Nay" or "Make it so" and it would have been done.

    As for the RT commercials: polls have shown them to make more impact on the consumer than the latest IPad ads (yeah, I was surprised too). Apparently there is a retro-backlash: teenagers now think Microsoft is cooler than Apple.

    Will there be an RT2? Depends on whether Microsoft still wants it just to be a proof of concept to spur on OEMs, or whether it wants to follow Apple. Give it six months, and we'll start to see how it is really received.

    As for me, it has only served to lower my opinion of IT writers and the general audience, who obviously cannot get their heads around a convertible, dual-role tablet and keep their objective judgement free of stupid tribal allegiances to companies which, in the end, only care about our money.
     
    Last edited: 3 Feb 2013
  5. Cthippo

    Cthippo Can't mod my way out of a paper bag

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    Going off on a random tangent here...

    Does anyone make a really really waterproof tablet? I mean like IPX 7 or 8 rated? Like fully immerse it in cold salt water for a few minutes and knock it around a bit and have it keep working?

    The one time I feel like I wish I had some sort of tablet is to run Google Earth on when I'm out kayaking. Being able to have a GPS / moving map display that was more than 3 inches across and that I could set actual waypoints with text labels on while I'm in the boat or out stomping around on an island somewhere would be nice.
     
  6. impar

    impar Well-Known Member

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  7. GoodBytes

    GoodBytes How many wifi's does it have?

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    Impar... where on the Surface or Surface Pro do you see Apple logo? Where should you should nit pick, scratch the end of the bottle even, and make these issues look out of the proportion bad. :lol:
     
    Last edited: 8 Feb 2013
  8. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Impar shows the interesting point that most reviewers are measuring with two different yardsticks: one for Apple which can do no wrong, and one for Microsoft which is held to impossible standards.
     
  9. impar

    impar Well-Known Member

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    Greetings!

    The funny thing is that Microsoft had confirmed the free space (83 for the 128).
     
  10. Shirty

    Shirty W*nker! Super Moderator

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    Firstly I'll start by saying that I'm by no means the target consumer for the Surface in either if its guises. I'm by no means an Apple fan either - I just don't need that much engineering and expense in order to browse the web and check emails. I can't deny that the iPad is a wonderful bit of engineering but it's just not for me.

    Equally I have no great love of or allegiance to Microsoft, despite the fact that I have been using their software out of necessity ever since I first powered on MS-DOS in the late 80's.

    However, as a lover of technology and innovation I can't help be impressed that Microsoft are trying their hardest to move the tablet game into the post iPad era. The Surface (particularly the Pro) is the first tablet I have read about which is genuinely trying to achieve new things, and this has to be applauded whether they succeed in this first iteration or not.

    Power to the early adopters, your experiences and frustrations will not be in vain.

    Oh and to all those making the storage space argument, you sound like broken records. The amount of space that Windows takes up has never been an issue before tablets came along. Should small SSDs be sold with a sticker on them warning about how much free space is likely to be left should the user be installing Windows? Since this is the most likely scenario for a small SSD? Were PCs with small hard drives 10 years ago advertised taking the pre-installed software into account? No and no.
     
  11. impar

    impar Well-Known Member

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    Greetings!

    Dont forget that in the article I linked above the author is making the concession of comparing the Surface Pro with a MacBook Air, not with an iPad or Android tablet.
     
  12. Shirty

    Shirty W*nker! Super Moderator

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    Sorry, I didn't read it :p

    But I have now and I wasn't aiming my comments at anyone in particular. It was definitely correct for the author to compare it to another desktop OS though.
     
    Last edited: 8 Feb 2013
  13. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    As he should.

    The problem that a lot of people seem to be struggling with is that either Surface cannot be quite compared to anything. The Surface is neither straightforward tablet nor netbook; it is a hybrid capable of acting as both. You can use it as tablet using the Metro interface, and you can use it as notebook using the desktop interface.

    Any comments on how it is an incomplete or ill-conceived device is like people bleating in 2010 that the iPad was an incomplete or ill-conceived device because it lacked a keyboard. As Shirty implies: like the iPad was a paradigm shift, so is the Surface.
     
  14. impar

    impar Well-Known Member

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    Greetings!
     
  15. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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  16. impar

    impar Well-Known Member

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  17. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Didn't stop it from selling out on the first day. :p
     
  18. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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  19. .//TuNdRa

    .//TuNdRa Resident Bulldozer Guru

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    The mess is, in part, because Microsoft is the "Cool thing to hate" - They're one of the largest software companies going, everyone has to deal with their software in some way if they wish to use a PC, even Macs get Microsoft Office, this means pretty much everyone has their bad story to tell. It's simply so wide-spread that everyone is going to have had an issue with it at some point or another.

    Doesn't help that Apple has somehow gained, or possibly even engineered, an "Apple does no wrong" stigma about them, I can't help but feel that most of the lawsuits and issues directed at Microsoft for the Surface are simply because it's Microsoft.

    Were it Asus or even Apple making effectively a laptop in a Tablet Form-Factor; There'd be mountains of praise being lumped upon them for such ingenious thinking, but simply because it's Microsoft; They're being hated for it.

    Regarding the Disk Space Debate; It's the typical childish reaction, when you're told you're getting one thing, then get another. Throw all the toys out of the pram and scream out at the person responsible. People love to sink their teeth into huge companies, feeling like they're the Underdog, facing down a big, evil corporation.

    I do agree that it's a bit pants that half the disk-space is taken up, even if actions can be taken to remedy the issue, but that's an issue that anyone would've thought up if they'd actually stopped for a second and thought about it; it would've made sense.

    Next plan for being a douche: Tell people how to completely format the drive, removing the recovery partition and windows. They could then stop bitching that they didn't have the space. Wouldn't be able to use it, but still; They'd have it all!
     
  20. sandys

    sandys Well-Known Member

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    A lot of Win8 hate, I couldn't be happier with my hybrid, sure it's not the higher end experience only having an atom but damn does it work well, spent plenty of time with its competitors, on the simple tasks of web and email its a much better experience IMO, won't deny its a bit of a bugger to have to dip out of metro to run sites the don't work in that environment but that is better than what the others offer which is complete inability to perform at all.

    I took a punt as I have done with android and IOS in the past, w8 is weak on the app side but on the other side I have full x86 application and device compatibility Blimey just being able to print docs sent to me and have them come out as expected is a boon is just one of the little things immediately appreciable.

    Much prefer this to alternatives and really hope MS gains traction with it and Intel etc can get the good chips down in power etc, so I can upgrade to something with more grunt but compact and lightweight, of course it's unlikely I'll see an i7 and 680 in the package similar to my W510 anytime soon but its what we all really want, and for about a fiver must snap out of my dream world.:D
     

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