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News Microsoft's Windows Blue plans hinted at in job ad

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Gareth Halfacree, 18 Feb 2013.

  1. Tangster

    Tangster Butt-kicking for goodness!

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    So long as I get a desktop, I'm happy. I rarely use the Metro menu, it's hardly the massive inconvenience(after adding icons for shutdown and sleep) everyone thinks.
     
  2. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    Trying to draw a comparison to the controls in a car is so far of the mark you hit the moon :)
    Face it 8 is turning out to be a worse flop than Vista.
     
  3. mdshann

    mdshann New Member

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    Context clues seem to say that I am agreeing with you... at least on the leaving XP part. :thumb:

    We have the same crap going on in the Linux camp as well though. Gnome 3, Unity, KDE4 are all pretty big departures from what we were used to, but you know what? If I'm going to complain about people complaining about having to leave XP for V/7/8, then I should probably start using one of the new DE's too. To be honest with you, it took me a while to get used to Unity (What I'm currently using), and I was never a big KDE fan to begin with. I still can't understand how to use gnome 3 though!

    It's pretty awesome getting the choice though, we can even keep the gnome 2.x look if we want to use MATE. It must suck to be a Luddite and barely even understand how to turn the thing on, and then "they" go and change everything on you!
     
  4. impar

    impar Well-Known Member

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    Greetings!
    All of those were improvements on the predecessor (except for Norton Commander, no idea what that was).
    The lack of choice of what Start to use, the fullscreened Metro apps in a 24" monitor, the half-baked combination of two UIs, the touch-first UI, the stupid popup Charms, the lack of a global search on Start, the inability to choose on what program to open a searched file, ...
    Kind of glad I havent touched on those since the last century.
     
  5. mdshann

    mdshann New Member

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    You must be one of the 95%'ers I was referring to earlier. Windows 8 has not flopped, it's an amazing product with some serious innovation under the hood.

    Does a MAC have a Keyboard mouse and screen? Oh look, so does my PC! Does my Jeep have a steering wheel, windshield and pedals? Oh look, that Fiat over there does too! But wait! The heat on the Jeep is a slider and on the Fiat it's a knob? I'll never understand this thing, I give up! :waah:

    And, oh LOOK! :jawdrop: A Start Menu:

    http://www.classicstart8.com/ :clap:
     
  6. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    You only have to look around the web for uptake figures on 8 e.g
    http://www.netmarketshare.com/

    You must be kidding right ? how is it innovating ? its windows 7 redesigned to make it more tablet friendly with a few additions and tweaks, complete with a full screen start menu and a market place so M$ can make some money from selling software.

    What makes me laugh is when people say you can use a third party program to bring back the start menu, its just like we used to use third party software to run programs in a sandbox but now M$ have built that into 8.

    Maybe eventually they will realise a smaller start menu is a feature that some of there customers want and incorporate it into a future OS.
     
  7. mdshann

    mdshann New Member

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    You answered yourself there.

    Another example is that now the kernel goes to hibernate instead of shutting down to allow for faster boot times. I know it's a controversial feature, but the app store or whatever they are calling it is one innovation over previous versions of windows. The new interface that everyone who doesn't own a touch device hates could be counted as innovation. USB 3.0 native support. Microsoft Live web account integration, which includes syncing between multiple computers on the same account. Integrated flash player within IE10 to help with flash vulnerabilities. Family safety is now built in instead of a separate Live download. UEFI Safe boot to help prevent pre-boot execution of unsigned code like rootkits. Integrated Windows Defender based on Security Essentials for decent virus protection built into the OS. Windows to Go to take you programs and files with you. Hyper-V virtualization in Windows 8 Pro. Reset and Refresh re-installation available without recovery media. :rock:
     
  8. leexgx

    leexgx CPC hang out zone (i Fix pcs i do )

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    at most all of the windows 8 systems have had issues of some sort

    1. main pet hate is system response time at random times (the same one that seems to be an Vista bug/Feature "how to tank pc performance by drowning the HDD in I/O", example windows update or when you go to update or install an RT app the HDD goes nuts for about 5 mins, it did this when i was trying to install skype i ended up opening 10 setup boxs 5 mins later), i have an SSD so i should be OK but hitting the HDD with mass i/o is bad idea (that was Fixed in the real vista release called windows 7 but broken again in win8), with win7 i get none of this

    2. programs get glitchy after an bit, you have to restart the pc to resume normal usage (outlook dono why just hangs when you open it reboot is only fix) my windows 7 system has been on for 20 days every thing still works fine

    3. RT is made for touch screens systems that have touch screens cost stupid money that normal foke do not buy and so limits its usefulness to the point its annoying (Stupidly small hot coners with No hints that they are there is So good for your avg user who does not want to use the computer just wants to Use it, soon as they get onto the RT screen and its all Green background with no hints or tips on how to get back to the Main RT tiles, its like ????? and then they call me to install to fix it and in turn i install startisback or get them to take the pc back and get an windows7 pc

    going from windows 95 to windows 7 apart from removing the name start (that confused the hell out of a lot of users and hid the shutdown option in vista, why do you think they put ShutDown in the start menu in windows 7) is not much different between them

    all they should of done with windows 8 is done the under the hud stuff and added an market place like Apple have done with there OSX you do not have to use it but its there for you to Use,
    where as windows 8 its like dropping iPad IOS onto an desktop OS that just does not really work (more so if you have 2 or more screens)
    i not an Fan of OSX as such (guess its just the silly mouse, i allways plug in an MS mouse when i am at an apple pc, propper clicks/right lick and the opticle sensor is in the right place in the middle where it should be) but at least they have not go down the root of forcing an compleat UI change that most users will not like at (on OSX if you do not like it you just do not use it, it does not get in the way like in windows 8 it does)
     
  9. leexgx

    leexgx CPC hang out zone (i Fix pcs i do )

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    note the HD nuts part is Very random does not always do it, but Slow pc response time did tend to happen at least once on each system i used (the trusted installer was hogging all HDD time from what i could see) hdd response times was getting to 1-2 seconds and the resulting system slow down insured

    other issue was stuff that is hidden, requiring more clicks so you randomly found the thing you was looking for (yes you can just type the item name, but before it was 2-3 clicks away)
     
  10. mdshann

    mdshann New Member

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    So your answer is to tell people to return their windows 8 device and get a windows 7 computer? I'd like to let you know that you are part of the problem, not the solution. Windows 8 is not going to just go away, but commercial availability for Windows 7 is. A responsible technician would teach the customer how to use the new software, not invent some way around it. I've found with just a few minutes of help most people are easily able to understand the changes made in Windows 8. Those that couldn't? They didn't know how to use 7 either.
     
  11. SexyHyde

    SexyHyde Member

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    So Win7 was doing over 3 times better than Win8 is now.

    Was Win8 quicker? Yes a bit, but I have an SSD so its not all that.
    Was I quicker in Win8? No...... not by a long shot. Almost everything I did took longer and even when I got used to where stuff was it usually took more clicks and mouse swipes than Win7.
    I used CP, RP and RTM so gave it a good crack of the whip - but for some people it just isn't worth it. Is it now a £100 upgrade? oh wait....... it's still £45. That's right, if people don't want it at £45 they aren't going to be rushing to pay £100+.
    I think Win7 will be my last Windows. I'm using it till Steam Ubuntu gets a bit more mature. If I didn't have a lack of spare time, I'd be on it full time now, just using Win7 to get through my backlog of unplayed Steam games.
     
  12. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    That isn't innovation, The kernel using hibernate instead of shutting down has been around since Win95 (it just forced on the user more now)
    The app store has been around for over 10 years, Linspire with Click'N'Run.

    The "new interface" has been around since 1970, it just comes with more bells and whistles now.
    Native support for USB3 means jack since you can get drivers for Win7.

    Microsoft Live web account integration is just a renamed Microsoft Passport account, along with all the security holes.
    Family safety is another rename, UEFI Safe boot (originally a Intel idea) can be used to lock out installing Linux.

    Packaging software like Defender with your OS isn't innovating, its just waking up to the fact that customers have been installing this kind of software for years.

    Windows to go is just a fancy name for live USB's
    Hyper-V virtualization has been around since Windows Server 2008.
    Reset and Refresh is simply M$ putting the recovery media on you HDD/SSD

    So where is the innovation ? to me it looks more like renames and rehashes of others inventions. :wallbash:

    EDIT: I think this shows how innovative M$ are
    http://cdn.darktips.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Windows-8-infographic.jpg
     
    Last edited: 19 Feb 2013
  13. Xir

    Xir Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly the point, but the other way around:D
    Most people getting Win8 NOW don't have a touch screen and keyboard, and they're annoyed at pretending (with their mouse) to be "touching"

    Hence the simple question for an update to a direct-to-desktop version.

    Save energy, turn off your multiple extension lead, see how it hibernates then :D
     
  14. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    Sure. I was also a completely different economic climate, it was a completely different market (look ma, no iPad).

    I love how people on one side argue that MS lost the touch because they removed the Start menu and replaced it with Start screen, teaching the people how to use their touch friendly (but not touch exclusive) UI. And many in the same post start arguing that they should learn from iPad and Android tablets, which is exactly the reason why this interface change is forced on us. PC sales are dropping, tablet sales are increasing - yet people cry that their start menu transformed to touch friendly start screen. I am positive that MS expected the market situation to be a bit different when they planned the W8 launch for October launch - they expected more devices from the manufacturers, at a lower price; they expected lower power consumption from Intel CPU, but that is the risk when you plan few years ahead, you simply cannot predict how will your partners do.

    @Corky42: sorry, i don't get it. Tablets are taking over the big part of laptop sales, part of PC sales and part of sales to people who wouldn't normally have a computer. Yet you people complain MS have a touch friendly UI (same as iOS and Android), have a single sign on mechanism for the whole device (same as iOS as Android), have centralized store for applications (same as iOS and Android)... Aren't these features people now expect and want from their devices ? By that logic we could say that Linux and iOS are stupid copycats because Windows 7 had TRIM support first, Linux introduced TRIM later and OS X still has it only for Apple branded SSD. But that would make no sense - neither does that infographic.

    And native USB3 support means a lot. I guess you didn't try to install the OS from a USB3 stick connected to USB3 port.

    @Xir: You know what is funny ? Most non-gaming Metro apps i have on my computer(s) i use with keyboard. RSS reader ? Press left or right to move in list. Mail application ? Press up down, or type to search...
     
  15. faxiij

    faxiij Member

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    Such a fitting analogy... :D :D :D

    If you actually believe that and mean that, then you don't deserve access to the internet. It really is a shame that the internet turns so many people into dip$hits. Which reminds me of another huge annoyance btw, that whole thing of MS trying to integrate your web-account with your computer-account? It's like they're taking the collective amount of privacy and security, putting in a bowl and pi$$ing on it.

    I guess, in the end it all comes down to the same thing: MS not trying to accommodate their customer's actual wishes/needs, but doing what they feel could be nice and "cool" with a more or less complete disregard of reality and the situation many people/companies are in. But hey, maybe that means MS is finally fading, allowing the rise of new IT powerhouses, possibly.
     
  16. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    @faxiij: So it didn't bother you when Google joined your Gmail, Google+, Google Analytics, Google <insert other acquired product name> with your Android account ? It didn't bother you when Apple did it with the Apple/me/iCloud accounts ? But if MS does try to use centralized accounts (even with the option to use local accounts) as the last one on the market, then MS instantly turns into a bad, evil company who wants to steal your data.

    MS is the last one to have centralized accounts, but some of you guys scream it's too soon. MS is the last one to deliver a touch friendly interface, but you guys scream it's too soon. Before Windows 8 all we could hear was "is MS sleeping, where is their tablet (touch friendly) platform?". and "i would buy a tablet, but it needs Windows/Intel CPU/...".

    You guys are never satisfied, even if MS would deliver you your dream OS, you would have a reason to complain. :wallbash:
     
  17. impar

    impar Well-Known Member

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    Greetings!
    "They gave me my dream OS too late! They wasted time with W8!" :D
     
  18. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    impar complains about how MS just changes things and people will accept it and not remember the good ol' times. I remember the good ol' times (like, well before there was a Web), and they weren't that good. It's why things change.

    Actually MS is trying to accommodate their customers' needs. Theirs are just not your needs, because you are a niche customer, not a mainstream one.
     
  19. leexgx

    leexgx CPC hang out zone (i Fix pcs i do )

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    maybe I say recommend taking it back or I can load on an software that restores standard windows stuff so you can use the pc normally (star menu startisback app)

    if they ask me before buying an system I say forget windows 8 to start off with

    This is the main point
    ""I going around to set the pc up not spend an week to show them how to completely learn how to use an pc when I should not have to""
    how to say this nicely and not sound bad wording, most users are stupid or do not care about the computer when it comes to using pcs, all they want to do is use it, windows 8 is an road block and unsuitable with out adding 3rd part apps to restore norm use (why its better off getting an win7 pc to start off with) as I have never had to load custom software to fix an missing features that is the core of what windows stands for

    most customers I know would be completely lost with win8, even with starisback they some how get stuck on an random rt screen from time to time,most of them seem to have worked out how to get out of it they restart the pc, norm I just tell them to press the start button on the keyboard if that happens as startisback drops back to desktop when you do that

    all I can see is windows 7 will be the last os that companies will use (like when most did not upgrade from nt4 or 2000 for very long time)
     
  20. leexgx

    leexgx CPC hang out zone (i Fix pcs i do )

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    vista was only bad due to poor driver support and not helped by not managing heavy hdd hammering [that has returned in win8 (system restore trusted installer shadow copy trashing the disk) but do note I used vista for the most part and liked vista but only on my pc as I had raid0 with 3 disks and a ssd after that (that hid an disk trashing)
    on customers pcs turning off superfetch fixed most speed problems + adding 2gb of ram to the silly systems that came with 1gb or worse 512mb of ram as well (soon as I seen an vista basic logo on the pc/laptop right there was going to net me £30 for upgrading the ram as I new the system before pressing the power button it had 1gb or less of ram)

    win8 have made new computers quite un-usable for most users, with out modification
     

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