hello people of bit-tech. i was wondering if i could get some assistance i would like to get some information on how to mill and what (cheap) mill to buy and which accessories as i would love to be able to use one. i would use it to make waterblocks for various parts and different modding parts. also if there are any decent lathe/mill two in ones available i would also like to know about them as it could be quite useful. i will be using this for acrylic and copper maby alu but im not sure on that. also any machines/accessories need to be from uk websites not us i know teyber has a similar thread but i didnt want to hijack it so i made my own and seeing as im after a mill and he is after a lathe its different anyway. so fire away. thanks for any responses in advanced josh
If your doing waterblocks, cheapskate's method might be best if you already own a drill press(sliding vice) but if your after "what now b!tch i have a mill"(understandably) then it would be nice to know your budget. i hear horrible things with the lathe/mill combos, as i hear they do a bad job of both milling and turning. As cheapskate said, a cnc lathe would be nice, ill link you to some stuff k? http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Info/minimill_compare.php http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Info/minimill_compare.php http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,1485.html http://www.flashcutcnc.com/html/mach_2000_5400.html the last one is a cnc mill. I think its around 900$, not sure though and depends on which model. Hope i was helpful! Reed
unfortunately i dont have a drill press or a sliding vice so i think the mill would be the best idea. allthough i need a drill press and a scroll saw and a bandsaw really but ill start with the mill. lol. i dont really have a budget but as cheap as possible but quality! i will go through what you have posted now. im not after cnc just plain manual mill. josh
That d*mned ocean can be a real pain when you want stuff, (like the EU's 200+ colors of perspex...) I have no clue where to get cheap machinist supplies in the UK. I think you need to bug the Dutch modders on this subject.
lol its k dont worry about it. any sites with any info or like how to guides can be from anywhere..... teyber ive had a look and thanks i know what kind of mill to look for now. ill wait for others input on the subject aswell though
alright. The best place for milling questions is yahoo groups, someone told me that about lathes and its true! here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mini-mill/ Join that group and start a topic. I would go with the cummins/grizzly. I would advise against both a scroll and a band saw, they both do similar stuff. Scroll saw will be used more often IMO. Keep us posted mate! also you need to realize that you will be spending 100-250$ in addition to the mill in tooling, vices, et cetera. take a look at a mill/drill machine.(you can drill holes with a mill)
ok i will do teyber ill ask there. well it would be $100-250 allthough im in the uk so itll be like £50-125 so yer thats fine.
Try looking at Machine Mart, they're bound to have a website, you can get some pretty cheap machines of all kind there. I remeber one of our Uni Research Groups (I work in a Laser Physics Dept) bought themselves a drill press from there for £50 a couple of years ago and whilst in wouldn't survive in a workshop enviroment it would be ideal for home use. What I would suggest is just buy a mill, you can get a drill chuck attachment for a mill but its not a good idea to use a drill press for milling as the head bearings are designed for all the force to be directed downwards (Z axis) and if you're milling then you will be applying force left/right (Y axis) and front/back (X axis) as well. This will result in premature wear on the bearings, especially if you are buying something cheap - they save money by using lower quality components and materials. Plus the part that holds the tool in place in a drill press is usually held in place by a taper (called a morse taper) and the mill holder is held in place buy a bolt type attachment (lots of different kinds), if you try milling using the taper attachment then the vibration can make it slacken off and drop out whilst rotating. I have seen to many smart arses try to save time by trying to mill with a drill chuck and the whole lot drops out and trashes the job, I did it once and vowed never to do it again. You might be better off buying something second hand or from an auction where some engineering firm has gone out of business, you can land some real bargins there but it is like the second hand car market and is very much a "buyer beware" so you really should have someone who knows what to look for to guide you. Our main workshop got a few real bargins in the past on some lathes and mills (not for home use, all three phase power) complete with tooling from an agent, I think they were called XYZ Tools but I can't say whether or not they can provide home use machines but if not then they might know someone who does. I could ask the workshop chief for some contact details if your interested, let me know.
hey thanks for your post its very informative! i would deffinitely be interested in some details on xyz tools. thanks.
Mill's are a big investment I was a traditionaly trained machinist but I switched to CNC before I ever had a job on manual machines, however tooling still costs quite a bit. I would think you would need to invest $100-500 just on tooling and measuring devices before you could anything meaningful, you can get pretty far with just a pair of digital calipers and a couple of 4 and 2 flute bits, a vice, and some parallel bars. however it takes a bit of investment to get nicer cuts, and things to passable tolerances. like most things it's a lot easier if you have the right tool for the job and that means buying a variety of bits, gauges, etc just to make the correct cuts. also don't forget there's a learning curve involved with mills, I'd say they are easier to use than lathes, but you still need to learn the basics to make correct cuts and the formulas to calculate the feeds and speeds. I don't won't to discourage you, but machining is one of those things that generally requires a pretty large initial investment, even on the hobby level, and cheaper tools usually just mean bad parts.
as someone who has these tools i can honestly say there really is no cheap route. and once you get the mill or lathe if you get the mini mill like homier or harbor freight sells you will probably spend an equal amount in tooling and holders. then on top of that you need calipers and mic's. right now my cheapest caliper is around $200 and my cheapest micrometer is a little over $300. this is not a cheap hobby to make precise things with it does get $$$$$ real quick. now on the plus side if you think you have the $$$ time and effort to put into it, it is a great skill to learn. your knowledge on metallurgy, trig, speeds that materials can be cut with, lubricants and all sorts of things shoots through the roof. anyway good luck with whatever you decide.
I guess if you're going for accuracy ±1/10,000th inch you need $200 calipers and micrometers, however for the enthusiast where 1/100th of an inch is fine a pair of $30 calipers should serve you just fine.
it is not just accuracy, cheap calipers get trashed really quickly. yeah you can go to harbor freight and get theirs, but i can guarantee that they don't hold any type of tolerance for any period of time at all. before long you go through 4 or 5 sets of them and you could have purchased a good mitutoyo or something similar.
You can look at the XYZ website at this link:- http://www.xyzmachinetools.com I spoke to the Workshop honco and he said that XYZ tended to be mainly big pieces of kit, they do small manual stuff but its not really their bag. He mentioned a few local agents (in and around Glasgow) but thats because he works on the principle of when you're buying a second hand machine you need to see it in the flesh and turn a few handlles to get a feel for how much use/abuse its had. Plus its always a bonus to actually see it in operation if possible. I can't say I blame him as the type of kit we use in the main workshop does cost quite a bit (the last one was £15K second hand and no tooling). I agree with some of the above posters, yes you do need to spend quite a bit on tooling and equipment but you should also cut your cloth to suit your task and your budget - by this I mean there is little point in splashing out a lot of money on brand new kit that you either don't need to be so accurate or may not even need at all. I don't know if this is the same in every city but here in Glasgow we have a market place know locally as the "Barra's", its kind of a flea market but on a much bigger scale and (if its actually possible to imagine) a bit more upmarket than your traditional flea market - it used to have a bad rep as the biggest source of pirated software and DVD's in Europe at one point but I think that's under control now. What they do have is a very good quality hardware shop (Bill's Tool Store for you locals) and they have a lot of second hand enginering kit such as micrometers, verniers (digital & manual), slips, taps, drill bits, cutters, squares, V-blocks, etc, etc and they are all at knock down prices - some of them are even ex MoD kit. I would hope that there are good hardware shops like this one in every big city, its definitely worth checking on. My point here is that there is no point in blowing a huge wad of cash on top kit right at the start - to kit out a workshop from scratch and buy top of the line kit for the whole thing isn't having money to burn its more like having money to incinerate. The best analogy I can think of to this is that imagine that you want to learn to play the guitar, a wise person would pick up an old second hand acoustic and try it to see if they actually liked playing and could then learn what they need to look for once they decide to stick with it. However an unwise person will rush out and buy themselves a Fender Stratocaster and the biggest Marshall amp they can find along with a huge speaker setup before they can even form a chord and they'd probably give up as they don't like that "it makes their delicate little fingers hurt holding down those rough metal wires!" Anyway to get back on topic here, you might also want to try looking some Model Engineering magazines in any main Newsagents or big bookshop such as Borders, they will have some small scale machines suitable for home use. Plus a quick search on google with "second hand milling machines" threw up more websites than you can shake a stick at. I think I've rambled on enough for now, let me know if you need any more info.
Well I don't recall posting it before, it kind of just popped out of my head and landed on the keyboard, it then kind of dissolved in between the keys and just magically appeared on the screen - mabye I've been sleep typing!
**runs off and hugs the CNC mill down in the design shop** Looks like your best bet is getting some designs down and seeing if anyone would do it for you!
lol well i could probably get away with not buying one as i found out i can use the nice big flat bed manual mill in resistant materials at college. im doing the subject and i didnt even realise they had it! bu i will still look into getting my own one when i have had a go.
That will be your best bet, it means you get to try it out in what should be a safe enviroment with someone around in case you do yourself a mischef and they should have a reasonably well equipped collection of accessories. Good luck and post any queries you have, I'll do my best to pick up on them and get back to you quickly.
