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MPs Vote Against Animal Sentience Rights

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Gareth Halfacree, 21 Nov 2017.

  1. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    So, anyone who's seen my contributions to the Brexit thread will be only too aware of my opinions on that front - but even the flag-wavers Taking Back Our Country through the Will of the People are going to have to admit this is a bit much...

    MPs have voted to remove clauses in EU law which confirm the sentience - the ability to feel pain and base emotions - of animals as part of the EU (Withdrawal) Bill. That means that there will be nothing in UK law to prevent the mistreatment and outright abuse of livestock and non-pet creatures. It opens the door for everything from making the slaughter process even less humane that it currently is through to unrestricted animal testing for cosmetics and other non-medical products.

    I'm a meat eater. I've hunted, I've fished, I've butchered. I consider meat critical to a healthy diet, in moderation. If this goes through, though, I'm done with the UK meat industry. It'll be vegan food and whatever wild game I can either hunt myself or purchase from a trusted source.

    Surely I'm not alone in being outraged by this?
     
  2. Guest-23315

    Guest-23315 Guest

    You're absolutely right to be pee'vd - even if for the simple fact that properly raised and treated meat tastes better to the consumer. When you go hunting/shooting, you always want to dispatch the animal in the quickest and most painless way possible - the same should be true of livestock.

    I do find it a bit iffy that we've had that law in place but are perfectly fine with Halal though. I'd imagine having your throat cut is a fairly severe form of 'mistreatment'
     
  3. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    The argument for halal is that if done properly it's as quick as captive-bolt: the sudden loss of blood pressure results in instant unconsciousness. In reality it's hard to do it perfectly every time, so there's wiggle-room in the rules which allows for the animal to be stunned first. As far as I'm concerned that option should be taken every time, to minimise possible suffering.

    That said, the mainstream meat industry is a bit of a horror show even with the EU sentience clause intact. Even ignoring outright abuse by abattoir workers, the demand for high-volume meat production means that there's still unnecessary suffering goes on - but that's hardly going to be improved should the EU (Withdrawal) Bill remove said clause.

    Ideally I'd like to see a move to wild game. Mr. Bunny spends his entire life in a field doing Happy Bunny Things, pops his head up over a tuft of grass one day, there's a 'pop' and it's lights out. No suffering whatsoever. It is absolutely the best, least troublesome way to get meat into your diet - but, of course, doesn't scale, which is why we have conveyor belts full of cattle being led one-by-one to the bolt gun, and an industrial grinder which turns baby chicks into animal feed, and so on and so forth.
     
  4. Guest-23315

    Guest-23315 Guest

    This. But unfortunately its been ploticised as game/hunting/shooting is seen as a toff pastime, rather than a valid source of food. Look at the back lash that Ian Botham got when he wanted to offer his bag to the poor - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/06/shooting-birds-ian-botham-not-cricket
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 21 Nov 2017
  5. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    From that article:
    Effin' jeff, talk about editorialising. Absolutely no evidence that the birds are thrown away, but don't you just wonder if?

    Why the heck would you throw away a pheasant? That's a fiver's worth of tasty meat right there (£3.25 if you don't mind plucking it yourself, you pheasant plucker you). Any butcher in the land'll gladly take 'em off your hands for a quid a pop for quick resale.

    'Course, them going "oh, 10,000 birds (which are, admittedly, raised specifically as game) shot on his estate, that's barbaric" won't think twice about going to Unlucky Fried Kitten for a bucket share of the 23 million chickens the company gets through every year in the UK alone. Born and raised in sheds and getting gassed to death after just 35 days. Yeah, that's way better than a trouble-free life on a cricketer's estate until one day you jump out of a bush and the last thing you hear's a sudden 'bang' noise, innit?

    That said, I've got some sympathy for the "toff pastime" view. I don't do much (any, really) hunting these days 'cos I don't have ready access to a pile of land with tasty animals on it; them more well off than I do. Hard to get around that part of it, really.
     
  6. Corky42

    Corky42 What did walle eat for breakfast?

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    Not that I've read or know much about the subject but isn't animal welfare already covered in UK law, i seem to remember reading something about a 2006 act of something.
     
  7. Nexxo

    Nexxo Bargaining chip

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    Apparently that law only covers pets, not livestock, wild or lab animals.
     
  8. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    Now we've got all that 'animals have feelings too' nonsense out of the way we can get back to having a jolly good fox hunt!

    --Someone in the Govt, probably...


    Tbh i'm not surprised the govt has done it... I'm surprised that people are surprised...
     
  9. mrlongbeard

    mrlongbeard Well-Known Member

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    Which is why we have;
    • Poultry farming: welfare regulations
    • Laying hens: welfare regulations
    • Broiler chickens and breeder chickens: welfare regulations
    • Pig farming: welfare regulations
    • Sheep and goats: welfare regulations
    • Beef cattle and dairy cows: welfare regulations
    • Deer farming: health and welfare
    Although granted they don't cover wild beasts or lab animals
     
  10. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Which don't include any mention of sentience. To quote the RSPCA by way of Farming UK:
     
  11. Risky

    Risky Well-Known Member

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    Some people assume anyone with a bit of land is a toff. A bit of research into farming incomes might help there.

    My brother-in-law shoots, I occasionally take a bird that's hanging, if I have the time. Pheasant I get from the butcher when it's cheap, I've had them for £5 a brace before which is a bargain. Woodcock I have cleaned and roasted, though. Very nice but too much effort for the butcher to bother with!
     
  12. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Ownership of land increases one's net worth, entirely regardless of income. Someone earning below minimum wage but sitting on £100K's worth of arable land is better off than someone earning above minimum wage but nowt else to their name. Simple mafs, innit.
    Blimey, that is good. My local farm shop has rabbit and pheasant when it's in-season, but it ain't cheap: you're looking north of £5 for either oven-ready.
    Never had woodcock. I'll have to add it to the to-do list!
     
  13. Ramble

    Ramble Ginger Nut

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    Brexit has been dictated and controlled by the powerful in order to deregulate the country, nothing a revolution won't solve.
     
  14. Guest-23315

    Guest-23315 Guest

    If you want an awkward conversation, take a brace on the Central Line on a Sunday from Liverpool Street. It turns out there is a rule forbidding it, but its not allowed.
     
  15. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    That isn't too bad really.
    Sure it is significantly more than some random pork chop from the supermarket, but meat in general is far too cheap to pay for proper treatment of animals, quality meat or treating workers involved in its production like humans.
     

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