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Blogs My thoughts on Devil's Canyon

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Combatus, 14 Jul 2014.

  1. Combatus

    Combatus Bit-tech Modding + hardware reviews Staff Super Moderator

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  2. Hustler

    Hustler Well-Known Member

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    From what I'm seeing of other peoples experience with the 4690, 4.6Ghz with 1.2 or 1.25vlts seems to be the sweet spot and not need any kind of water cooling.

    If it can do 4.6 with 1.2 like mine, then it's almost guaranteed, with enough volts to do 4.8 if you have cooling that's up to the job under medium to heavy load...which I don't. (£25 tower cooler).

    Didn't have a 4670, so I'm guessing being able to run 4.6Ghz with only 1.2vlts and a cheap tower cooler was pretty much beyond reach?
     
  3. maverik-sg1

    maverik-sg1 Member

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    I've just sped through these thoughts of yours, the impression of which is immediately unclear to me.

    Are you saying that devils canyon cpu's are potentially better for overclockers because (due to binning, TIM, power distribution) they're more likely to hit 4.8ghz than the previous haswells?
     
  4. Dave Lister

    Dave Lister Member

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    I just got a 4790k on Saturday and on Amazon at least there is a price difference between it and the 4770k, I can't remember off hand but I think it was about £30-40 difference. I am going to wait until next weekend to try an overclock, but after reading the reviews i'm not expecting much.
     
  5. David

    David Take my advice — I’m not using it.

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    I don't know what you're seeing that I'm not, Antony. As far as I can see, there is no compelling reason to upgrade from SB.

    Other than very good gains on power consumption, according to your own benchmark suite, it offers a 10% improvement over a 2500K. Bearing in mind the default clocks are 200MHz (6%) greater than a 2500K , the 4690K looks even less convincing. Even coupled with a middling Z series board, you're looking at £250+ for ~5% gain at stock speed and, at first glance, even less when overclocking.

    Bearing in mind resale of my old kit would net around half the outlay, £125 is still too much for the improvement on offer.

    If the rumours about Broadwell's further delay are true, I'm happy to wait another year at least. Even then, it'll have to be pretty bloody special to turn my head.
     
    Last edited: 14 Jul 2014
  6. SchizoFrog

    SchizoFrog New Member

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    I just think it is funny that people get so disappointed or even angry that they don't NEED to upgrade their computers every year or two. Be happy that the machine you invested in so long ago is still kicking arse and that you can spend that money elsewhere. I doubt anyone with hardware released in the last 5 years is really saying 'I wish I could play (insert chosen game here) but my system is too weak and I need to upgrade again'.
     
  7. David

    David Take my advice — I’m not using it.

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    Wait, what?

    Commenting on an opinion piece with contrary arguments, doesn't mean I'm angry or disappointed. It means I'm commenting on an opinion piece with contrary arguments. :rolleyes:
     
  8. t5kcannon

    t5kcannon Member

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    Good article, with which I find myself in general agreement. There is also perhaps a point about competition. We, the consumers, tend to benefit from competition. Intel's more recent cpus have tended to on average outpace AMD's cpus. Intel may offer more if AMD turned the competitive screw more effectively.
     
  9. SchizoFrog

    SchizoFrog New Member

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    Then I wasn't specifically talking about you then was I Spreadie? You even mention that you are willing to wait to upgrade from a 2500K, but this article has been written on the back of dozens of reviews over recent years and if you read the comments of said reviews, my comment seems appropriate.
     
  10. David

    David Take my advice — I’m not using it.

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    Oooh, did I hit a nerve? :lol:
     
  11. maverik-sg1

    maverik-sg1 Member

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    So are Devil's Canyon CPU's in retail format generally considered to be more likely to clock to 4,8ghz without burning my house down if cooled with a AIO water cooler like the H100i?
     
  12. Yadda

    Yadda Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Glass half full. :rock:
     
  13. SchizoFrog

    SchizoFrog New Member

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    Not at all Spreadie. Just pointing out in clear fashion that your defense of your own comment was misconstrued and not needed.
     
  14. Maki role

    Maki role Dale you're on a roll... Staff

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    What confuses me a little is how people keep talking about CPU improvements and why they don't seem to be large anymore. Sure the net improvements don't appear to be anything special, but you have to stop and think why.

    First up is competition, simply put at the high end Intel have the world to themselves. This point gets brought up over and over so I won't talk about it.

    How about software though? For there to be improvements, surely there has to be something to improve, right? We outstripped the need for better CPUs with out current software needs for the majority of users, simply put. Standard productivity stuff like word, excel, internet browsing and email doesn't benefit at all from current CPU crops (and certainly not enthusiast stuff) so let's ignore that. Next up are games, which still don't use CPUs up much. In fact, the trend is to remove even more need for CPU grunt by offloading to the GPU, as seen with the likes of Mantle etc.

    Intel could (theoretically) release a chip that's twice as powerful and the same price, but most people simply wouldn't benefit from it. Sure there are some CPU bound games out there, but the number's not huge. Performance simply doesn't scale properly with core counts in most applications.

    If you want to see some improvements, some developer's going to have to release a game that scales really well with more cores but at the same time plays terribly with only 2 or so. So it'll have to play really well with 4+ but not well on anything lower. That kind of precedent would help kick the market in the backside. Sadly it's also a risky strategy that may well not pay off, depends how revolutionary and important the feature is deemed to be.
     
  15. SchizoFrog

    SchizoFrog New Member

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    Maki role: That opinion is far to sensible and logical and removes all the valuable reasons to finger point and complain. :)

    On the same line of logic I find it quite interesting just where smartphones are going to go over the next 5 years to continue to get sales as the hardware is already pretty much surplus to requirements. At the rate it is going we'll be able to play full PC games at 4K resolutions on a 5" screen very shortly.
     
  16. Maki role

    Maki role Dale you're on a roll... Staff

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    Funny that, I literally made a post 20 minutes ago over on LTT about that exact point. People were bashing some new iPhone leak over how it supposedly has a lower resolution screen than some Samsung or other. Pointless, once you hit 300+ PPI things just become meaningless unless you genuinely hold your phone 2" away from your face at all times. I use my phone as an e-reader, having that resolution change was great a few years back, made text much easier to read. However, going from 326 (or whatever an iPhone is) to something like 400/450 doesn't yield the same effect. Because the pixels are so damn small to begin with, you can hardly notice a thing. It's like comparing having a 144Hz screen and then going to 196Hz, big change in numbers, but it's nowhere near same as going from 60-144 or especially 30-60.

    Project Ara looks very interesting for this reason. It ditches all that crap in favour of "Hey you want it? Here, have it!" Do I want a 4k screen in a phone, no. But I do want a good camera (I love using an SLR, but practicality dictates otherwise), a decent processor (for on the fly photo tweaking mostly), a nice screen and a bloody good battery (plus the little things like GPS etc.). The only feature that a normal phone has interested me with recently is waterproofing. That's genuinely helpful because water accidents do happen (jumped into a pool with my phone one I hate to admit).
     
  17. fingerbob69

    fingerbob69 Member

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    Yes ...but would you want to?
     
  18. rollo

    rollo Well-Known Member

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    Most of Intels lack of pushing performance comes down to 2 things lack of any competition in the desktop and server markets ( 90% of intels revenue is these 2 markets)

    Lack of software to take advantage of any higher performing CPU.

    As for rendering 4k video that's why you use workstations where the dedicated cards can do the task in a matter of minutes instead of weeks.

    CPU rendering has changed in the last few years to the point where you require 32-64 threads to even see sub 1hr time on 4k 3 min vid.

    Whilst the cheapest dedicated card will do the job in a few a seconds.

    CPUs are still getting better as time goes on if I upgraded my 950 rig with this CPU I'd see noticeable improvements I'd imagine.( maybe not in gaming which is all it's used for but in other areas it would be a lot faster)

    Games unless poorly coded have not really pushed a CPU.

    Sins of a solar empire and supreme commander both suffer CPU related slow down due to number of AI instructions for all the units on the screen.

    Crysis 3 runs the same on pretty much any CPU launched in the last 5 years.

    Even the whole core race as people quoted it as never really materialised. AMDs 8core chips whilst cheaper get blown away by any 6 core intel chip. For people who need more than 4 cores money is not the biggest problem in 99% of the cases in business.

    Intel need a real competitor to be pushed in desktop and servers once it happens you never know.

    Mobile I've always wondered how long before they just offer apple fab space and take on the billion dollar contracts that they would surely get from them, its easy money for them with no real risk.

    Eventually if they make a decent chip they could even convince apple to use it they have a long standing partnership with Apple. Apple get a decent lead time on CPUs from Intel. The only reason Intel graphics have gone anyplace is due to Apple.
     
  19. SchizoFrog

    SchizoFrog New Member

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    I did state that mobile 'hardware is already pretty much surplus to requirements', which does suggest that it is not something that I would be looking for in a phone.
     
  20. EasterEEL

    EasterEEL New Member

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    Despite the hype DC is basically a binned 4670K / 4770K with better TIM to reduce temps and additional capacitors to smooth power delivery to the processor. Comparing the 4770K/4790K CPU's the clock speed is up from 3.6GHz (turbo 3.9GHz) to 4.0GHz (turbo 4.4GHz). The 4790K achieves this at similar temps so it is an improvement i.e. a 10% faster processor currently about 5% more expensive.

    Realistically Haswell is a hot processor under load and my watercooled system (emphasis quietness vs. extreme cooling) with all cores @ 4.4GHZ non-stressed temps are around 30C (ambient 24C). But stressing with AIDA core voltage automatically increases to 1.273V which pushes the cores to 70-75C and transient spikes to low 80's and this is under water! Normal day to day usage including video encoding it gets to a toasty 70C+. I am not convinced 4.8GHz is substainable within a sensible temperature envelope when core voltage is above 1.25
     
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