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Displays Need new monitor ASAP and still on the fence with HP LP2475!

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Whitesky, 5 Oct 2009.

  1. Whitesky

    Whitesky Minimodder

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    Some of you may remember I had some build threads up a few months ago, as well as asking about the HP LP2475W monitor.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824176104

    Well for $540, I'm still on the fence about getting it. Except now, I NEED a monitor immediately. My build is up and running well, but have to sell my current PC/monitor, which means I need a new one within a week, which means buy+shipping... now.

    I am a web/graphics/video/photo designer, who also plays high-end games - making things more complicated as hardly any monitor does both design vs gaming well. (Usually better design monitors have horrible response time)

    Looking back on reviews I've been reminded about just how many apparent problems this model has sometimes - color shift, bad text, some say it's not good for editing videos, horrible sRGB simulation. $540 is already the max I can pay, but is there ANY OTHER alternative I should consider? I've been reading reviews but nothing yet has caught my eye.

    I Need:
    1920x1200
    IPS, not TN panel (for design & good color reproduction)
    5-6ms Response time max (for gaming)

    Or should I just take the plunge and get the HP.. ahh!
     
  2. Shadowed_fury

    Shadowed_fury Minimodder

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    2209WA. IPS.
    22" mind.
     
  3. Kyocera

    Kyocera The Garden of Evil

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    Similar to HP LP2475W is Dell U2410, however the performance is lower and the design with price higher.
    The HP monitor is astounding, and the producer has solved their production issues by now,.
     
  4. Whitesky

    Whitesky Minimodder

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    I just looked up that Dell 2410, seems quite nice.. although only place I could find it was at Dell's own website :(

    Any info, links or retailers?
    It looks almost exact in specs, so I'm quite interested.
     
  5. dragontail

    dragontail 5bet Bluffer

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  6. Kyocera

    Kyocera The Garden of Evil

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    Dell has the same panel, but the performance of it is worse; the monitor is only nicer to see, however the most important thing is the image quality and not the beauty of the casing.

    You have to buy the calorimeter tool (another 100 dollars) since the out of box colour calibration is plainly horrible. The calibration is very hard and not satisfactory.
    The black levels of HP are better.

    http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2410.htm
     
  7. Whitesky

    Whitesky Minimodder

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    Interesting.. well I found this to be only $10 more than the HP, however so far it's only available through Dell in the US, which means no lengthy user reviews to read from. While the HP has some shaky reviews, there ARE alot of reviews..

    A few forums I read mention better calibration and sRGB support, while others even here mention lesser performance. Are there any specifics?

    I'm pretty split between these two atm.
     
  8. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    The HP LP2475w for sure. Although then again, I'm a NEC junkie, so if you really wanted top notch, The LCD2490WUXi is the best choice, albeit the most expensive.
     
  9. Kyocera

    Kyocera The Garden of Evil

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    The Dell monitor in question is great.
    The difference between it and HP is in styling and that HP performs a split of hair better.

    Now HP is a "more mature" product, the factory had some time to solve problems; just go for the latest revision.
    Dell also had it's more than fare share of problems in the not so distant past, so it's not said, that it can happen something not pleasant with it.

    I think that you must sit down and think by yourself; others can not decide for you between HP and Dell since both are just great. :thumb: :thumb:
     
  10. [PUNK] crompers

    [PUNK] crompers Dremedial

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    basically you'll never know until you try, dont like it? send it back. a lot of people like the HP, i reckon i'll get one eventually.
     
  11. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    The HP is better out of the box (but still far from accurate), whereas the Dell is awful out of the box. Once calibrated however, there's not much to choose between the two. The Dell has much better connectivity with the built in card reader.

    If you buy a wide gamut IPS panel and DON'T calibrate it, then IMO you're buying a e-penis.... as without calibration, any VA panel that has nice colours out of the box will look as good (viewing angles aside). Paying a premium for a IPS panel, and then NOT calibrating it like buying a GTX295 and just playing windows minesweeper or chess.


    So... with that in mind make sure you also budget for the X-rite Eye1 or Lacie Blue eye calibration hardware. Don't get the Spyder... they've ruined it with the new software.

    Ask yourself this before you part with all that cash: Do you need a IPS panel? Are you a photographer or image professional that needs high levels of pre-press colour accuracy? If not... save your cash and get a decent P-VA panel instead.. especially if you're not willing to pay for a decent colorimeter to calibrate it... you're just throwing money away. A decent VA panel that's well calibrated will be MUCH better than a uncalibrated ISP panel.


    The original poster says he is an image professional however.. so I'll assume he already has a decent colorimeter (as any professional should really have one) - get the Dell. Once calibrated it's pretty much the same as the HP and the built-in card reader makes life easier.

    If you don't have a colorimeter... then get your priorities right! :) You said "IPS, not TN panel (for design & good color reproduction)" Without calibration, you won't get that no matter what monitor you have.

    Anyone else reading this who doesn't rely on their monitor for their living - unless you're also willing to pay £250 on a decent colorimeter, then your IPS panel is a waste of time.


    Good HP review HERE

    Good Dell review HERE

    As a final note.. you don't really NEED a IPS panel. I'm still using a P-VA panel, and once well calibrated I'll be getting far more accurate colours than an uncalibrated IPS panel. Personally, if you DON'T have a colorimeter, and your max budget is 540.. then youll end up with crap colours. If you don't have one, and you need accuracy, get a decent VA panel and the X-Rite Eye1 for the same amount of cash. You may have to settle for a 1920x1080 monitor if you're also buying a colorimeter, but I know what I'd rather do.

    This myth that you can buy a IPS panel and somehow be getting superior colours out of the box without using a colorimeter is just that: a myth. Without calibration, all monitors essentially suck when it comes to accuracy.

    If you don't have calibration hardware and still go ahead with your IPS panel... enjoy your bragging rights :)
     
    Last edited: 6 Oct 2009
  12. Kyocera

    Kyocera The Garden of Evil

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    Well, Pokeyhead, I told him to invest in a calorimeter if he chooses Dell.

    I have the HP for home usage without calorimeter and I can hardly agree that it's a waste of money.
    The image is superb as opposite to an TN based monitor.
    A thing to point out is, that bigger monitors suffer more from TN film than smaller ones. Already on a smaller monitor, when you move your head you notice than the image gets lighter looking from above and very dark when looking from bellow; the side view is a little less horrible discussion.

    TN monitors are good only for text and such; even games, where you don't pay much attention on image since you concentrate on action.
     
  13. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    Well... only you can decide whether it's a waste of money. One thing is certain however, un-calibrated, your colours will be no more accurate than plenty of decent VA panels at 2/3rds the price.

    I'll just leave that FACT there :)

    My (calibrated) P-VA panel will be outperforming it.


    You will be enjoying superior viewing angles though, and while woefully inaccurate un-calibrated, you're gamut will be wider. You are aware though, that unless you have a monitor that stores calibration in a hardware LUT, or you have successfully calibrated it with a colorimeter and created a ICC profile, it will actually look worse when viewing the vast majority of sRGB profiled images created on monitors with a normal sRGB gamut? You can of course use the sRGB preset to combat this, but that kind of defeats the object of a wide gamut screen.

    THIS ARTICLE explains what I'm on about.
     
    Last edited: 6 Oct 2009
  14. Kyocera

    Kyocera The Garden of Evil

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    I'm not denying any facts; the colour accuracy is not that vital-important for home usage, since I'm not going to photo-print the images. That would show that something is deeply wrong; otherwise you can enjoy the images even if the image is shown in a little different manner.

    Would you list some 2/3 price 24" monitors?

    It's not all in colurs accuracy; more lies in a crisp crystal image; when the dew on the foliage seems so real, you can almost touch it, when you screensaver images look like a window.
     
  15. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    Different manner? Unless you are using the sRGB preset, or have calibrated it, most of what you're viewing may even be incorrectly shown.


    That's not due to it being a IPS monitor though. Loads of monitor are as sharp as the HP2475 at half the price, and some with higher contrast ratios and better black performance, which will give a PERCEIVED better image out of the box. You've paid a massive premium for colour accuracy and gamut width... neither of which you're taking advantage of.


    Samsung SM245T for one. Calibrates beautifully. Excellent reviews. You can pick one up for around £380.

    Dell 2408WFP - around £365. Decent VA panel with excellent viewing angles, good gamut and superb colours.

    Samsung SM245B - this is actually a TN panel that can outperform a lot of VA panels. £260!




    You have a beautiful monitor, I don't deny that... but un-calibrated, you gain little advantage over many lesser priced monitors.

    It's nice to own nice things though, and good luck to you! Nothing wrong with that.... just be aware that uncalibrated you're not really making the most of it.

    Untrue. Where you getting your info? Once calibrated, they're almost identical in performance. The Dell is worse straight out of the box, so it's only an issue to the people who buy IPS screens and don't bother calibrating them ;)

    Incidentally, out of the box, the HP isn't much better

    [​IMG]

    That sucks!
     
    Last edited: 6 Oct 2009
  16. Kyocera

    Kyocera The Garden of Evil

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    "just be aware that uncalibrated you're not really making the most of it."

    I know that; it's just that a calorimeter retails for cca 200 dollars/euro. I was looking to buy one, but for home usage it seemed a little too much.
    I decided to ask if somebody offers a calibration service or something similar.

    Anyway, I must say, that the image displayed is certainly not accurate, but is very natural to see. Now, if somebody would put a calibrated monitor alongside I would notice the difference, but without such direct comparison it does not bother.
    I know you're going to cringe at this, but with image is not as with sound; sounds that are not properly reproduced are terrible. Colours on the image (within certain limits of course) can vary, they do not correspond to what was really taken, but this can hardly matter, since the photo taken now and in one hour (in nature) is completely different-saying that one of the two is incorrect is impossible.

    I understand however that you're an enthusiast and you have a source-reproduction relation .
    We have at home a very high-end black and white display; we still use it - for watching TV (in the kitchen). The image is so crisp and perfect, that it's a joy to look at; the human brain is made so, that it "compensates" the missing colours (of course you cannot jump from a colur set to black/white since the brain does not adapt that fast).
    Considering our brain power, it's therefore a much smaller issue not using a not calibrated monitor, provided, that it does not distort colours too greatly; that would be a SEVERE production flaw and not something normal (Dell suffers from this and this is the reason I mentioned the calibration tool).
     
    Last edited: 6 Oct 2009
  17. Kyocera

    Kyocera The Garden of Evil

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    Yes, once calibrated. I agree; especially if you play for 15 minutes more with calibration as with HP.

    The first two are MORE expensive on The Continent;100 Euro at least.
    The last is 380 euro, and for such a price I'm not buying a smelly TN panel.
     
    Last edited: 6 Oct 2009
  18. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    That's the most convoluted way of justifying a IPS panel for home/game use that I've heard yet :)

    It's your money, and like I said - there's nothing wrong with buying hardware you don't need just to show off - I do it all the time... it's OK honest :)

    BTW.. use the edit button!
     
  19. Kyocera

    Kyocera The Garden of Evil

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    I tried with edit button, bit you don't see the posts then and it's difficult to write.

    The viewing angles of a TN monitor are atrocious for home use; nobody is glued in a strict front position at home.
    There is nothing cheaper (on The Continent; as you saw), that would be acceptable as an alternative.
     
  20. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    To the original poster. Another reason to go for the Dell is the fact that it has a gaming mode that bypasses a lot of input crap you don't need, thus halving the lag to less than 20ms. The HP2475 has an input lag time of around 40ms.

    Given the fact that once calibrated they're pretty much the same in terms of quality, you'd be silly to not get the Dell, as it's the same panel, with more inputs, and better gaming response times.
     
    Last edited: 6 Oct 2009

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