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Networks Network upgrade - pointers please

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Almightyrastus, 4 Oct 2008.

  1. Almightyrastus

    Almightyrastus On the jazz.

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    Hi guys,

    Myself and my wife are getting to the point where we are about to start banging our heads into walls over trying to get our little network running how we want it at home. The core of the problem is our BT home hub and it has been decided that a change is needed as part of the move around of our hardware.

    Our network is this at the moment:
    [​IMG]

    We are going to need a router which can do all the same things as we have now (including the print server stuff) and also be a lot more configurable (and secure) than the home hub. At the moment the download engine is not connected as trying to get it into a DMZ with the home hub is frustrating to say the least and as a result it is sloooooooooooow.

    One thing we are going to want to do possibly in the near future is to add in a some scaleable storage and maybe the facility to host our own web sites (my wife has a few she would like to host herself) and I am thinking of possibly going rackmount for both the server and storage as we have enough space for maybe a 20u enclosure.

    Another small problem is that we are in a rented house so routing of cables around the place is a bit tricky (not to mention the house is 150 years old and has chunky walls)

    The part I am going to need some pointers on is the choice of router, it has to be wireless (at the moment we don't have anything over 80211g speed but may in the future) have 4 or more network ports (preferably Gbit) although a switch could be added at some point as well, be highly configurable and secure with good signal strength. A built in print server would also be beneficial although that could be run separately.

    Budget-wise i don't really have anything I am aiming for at the moment as I am on an info gathering run at the moment until my wife is earning again.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Firehed

    Firehed Why not? I own a domain to match.

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    Might want to look at the Apple Airport Extreme Base Station. Only three built-in gig-e ports, but it's got a USB port that you can use to attach hard drives or printers and it'll act as a fileserver and/or printserver (yes, you can do both by using a USB hub). And if you've ever dealt with Bonjour-based network printing, you'll understand how fantastically awesome it is compared to any other network printing. Also, 802.11n - I get full strength in almost the entire house with the router in the basement. If you're considering any sort of local server stuff, then get a decent gigabit switch to attach right off the bat since you'll end up needing it anyways. I run my AEBS to a D-link 16-port unmanaged gigabit switch (rackmountable) which works great.

    Pretty configurable from a software standpoint. It has a desktop client instead of the standard web GUI which is a little weird at first, but I've grown to vastly prefer it. I found that punching holes in the firewall was a bit tedious for my tastes, but for unrelated reasons I have mine only acting as a WiFi/GigE point rather than a firewall/router right now as it connects to a cheap D-link 802.11g router that handles the firewall stuff.

    Like all of Apple's gear, they're a bit pricey (though not out of line from other N gear), but I've never had a problem with it and it's been more reliable than any other router I've ever touched, and I've dealt with more than I'd like.
     
  3. Almightyrastus

    Almightyrastus On the jazz.

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    hmm, interesting. The Apple ones had not even crossed my mind. Not too scary on price (£111 from Amazon) either. Definitely one for the list.

    Thanks a lot for that
     
  4. koola

    koola Minimodder

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    Have you considered Apple's Time Capsule as it would have two distinct benefits for your network:

    1. It does all that the AEBS does and more.

    2. It has an HDD (500GB OR 1TB) that could replace that slow WD MyBook.

    Like Firehed, the TC router is the best I've owned so far.
     
  5. Woodstock

    Woodstock So Say We All

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    id go for any router that supports dd-wrt (custom firmware)
     
  6. woodshop

    woodshop UnSeenly

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    I Think the best thing you can do is this

    INTERNET -> ROUTER -> SWITCH -> devices/WAP/print server

    this keeps the load on the router to an absolute minimum. I've found that every router i've tried so far just dies after time.. They aren't switches or even hubs.. In my opinion they just can't handle all that traffic all the time. At least not in the $$ point of home gear.
     
  7. Horizon

    Horizon Dremel Worthy

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    My Current Setup

    Hope this gives you some ideas

    [​IMG]

    the router is a linksys wrt610n flashed to dd-wrt firmware
     
  8. Almightyrastus

    Almightyrastus On the jazz.

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    The time capsule does look pretty good but at an extra £200 over the airport for the 1TB version I am thinking it may be a little much to shell out in one go. The WD MyBook seems fine speed-wise, we stream films to laptops with no stuttering at all.

    How does all the management software for the Apple routers deal with windows?
     
  9. koola

    koola Minimodder

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    My old WD MyBook was too slow for transferring large HD Movies, but once on there I agree that it streams very well.

    TC works with all my WinXP/Vista desktops/laptops and I only administer it through OSX because it's pre-installed and I prefer the OS, but it's also windows compatible.

    This article is a good read and indicates it works well unless using Vista *sigh*.
    If the TC isn't for you, I would strongly recommend the AEBS.
     
  10. Buzzons

    Buzzons Minimodder

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    Isn't that due to the TC not supporting the advanced security features that Vista requires you to have?

    Networking wise -> if you're going to start doing seriouse stuff at home get a proper SMB router such as a cisco 877(w) or a Cisco 1841. They'll both be fine with the any load you could generate within that kind of network.

    As for setup..

    internet->router -> 2 vlans -> lan // DMZ. put the fileservers etc that need to be web facing in the DMZ vlan and all you home pc's // laptops // phones on the secure internal one. Then limit traffic to go from lan -> dmz, not dmz->lan.

    Netgear and hp make decent high end consumer gigE switches that you should look into as well.. depending if you want managed/unmanaged etc.

    as for Wireless -- anything "consumer" range is usually utter crap so spend a bit and get a decent box (cisco aironet's for example :))
     
  11. GreatOldOne

    GreatOldOne Wannabe Martian

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    Another vote for the AEBS - although I will say that the USB port on it can be 'spotty' at times. I have two printers plugged into via a USB hub, shared over the LAN. Sometimes it fails to recognise that a printer has been switched on, and therefore it doesn't show up as a shared resource (via bonjour - we're all Apple at Goo Towers :))
     
  12. barry99705

    barry99705 sudo rm -Rf /

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    If you've got a spare old "junker" pc laying around look into smoothwall or ipcop. You don't need too much horsepower, you could probably do it with an old laptop as long as it can have two network ports. Let that do all your routing, and add a switch and dd-wrt able wifi access point.
     
  13. RinSewand

    RinSewand What's a Dremel?

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    Reading through this I was just about to suggest barrys idea. However if you do go this route I'd go with PfSense, as opposed to Smoothwall. I've not tried ipcop, but compared to smoothwall it's far more configurable. Network would go:

    modem > pfsense with 2 other nics
    pfsense nic1 > switch > pcs + wap
    pfsense nic2 > DMZ

    apologies for the lack of illustration, i'm at uni at the moment and can't access any hosting etc...

    RwD
     
  14. barry99705

    barry99705 sudo rm -Rf /

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    I forgot about pfsense, that's a good one too. I think it need a bit more horsepower to run though. I don't use it because it doesn't do dual dhcp servers, I like keeping the wired and wireless completely separate. Most home networks don't bother with this, but my network has my wife's bookkeeping business on it.
     
  15. wharrad

    wharrad Minimodder

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    Oh, and don't forget the clarkconnect option - it's less secure than the PfSense or IPCop, but if you want something that can act as a fileserver etc out of the box it's not a bad option.

    I tend to agree with Woodshop - you sound like you've out grown a consumer router and it'd be best to either seperate the tasks or go for an old / low powered PC to handle some of the work.
     
  16. airchie

    airchie What's a Dremel?

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    Which wireless security are you using?
    It may just be that the router can't handle so many wireless connections at one time?
    You could look into getting a WAP, stick it on another channel and have some things connect to it and some to the homehub?
    This would allow you to use WEP or any other crap security on devices that can't do WPA and then use WPA for everyting else. :)
     
  17. Buzzons

    Buzzons Minimodder

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    Using WEP anywhere is a huge security issue and a simple entry point for anyone wanting to get onto your network.. if you're going to run anything like a small biz from home use decent dedicated hardware for it. Not consumer grade rubbish.

    If they're happy using linux + old box then it's a good substitute for a dedicated router/firewall but it's more power hungry, takes up more space etc etc
     
  18. Almightyrastus

    Almightyrastus On the jazz.

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    Hmm, there seems to be a whole lot more to this than I had originally anticipated. I have a few contacts who may be able to sort me out with 2nd hand bits of kit to set something up.

    One more thing, anyone know of a rackmount NAS which takes either SATA or IDE drives? I have only managed to find either SCSI or SAS ones so far and none at a decent price. Plus they all seem to come with drives installed. I would like something which I could add drives to as my storage needs increase.
     
  19. Buzzons

    Buzzons Minimodder

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    buy a cheap 2U case ~100 quid, put in a cheap atx/microatx/any mobo you have about into it then put drives in. you can get 2U cases with 8 drive bays.
     
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