Hi all, I have contributed to enough of these new build threads and I thought I would now take advantage of your expert advice and experience. The person I am building this for currently has a PIII 600MHz PC that I gave him back in 2007 and now has some money. His stated requirement to me initially was “super-fastness”. LOL, after using a PIII 600MHz anything is going to be faster than that. His usage of a PC is occasional; he is not a hardcore user. Given that this is the only time I have ever seen him with money for a PC in the 17 years I have known him, he needs something that will last him a number of years with the ability to fit updated components if his requirements change (e.g. if he becomes a hardcore FPS gamer). After asking him lot of questions, the following are his main requirements as close as I can ascertain: - Speed - Quietness - Upgradability/future-proof (to an extent) - Minimal gaming requirement (see below) Budget: £700 maximum, if under then all the better. Main uses of intended build: Office, web, movie viewing, lots of reading (user is a bibliophile) potentially some gaming such as Civ V, Sims etc – no FPS games intended. Parts required: All PC parts including case and monitor – no k/b & mouse required. Previous build information (list details of parts): None other than k/b & mouse. Monitor resolution: Potentially 1980x1080 if budget allows, otherwise 1680x1050 will have to suffice. Storage requirements: 500GB will suffice although will consider 1TB if price allows. Also need an external drive of similar size for backup purposes. Will you be overclocking: No, CPU will be run at stock speeds, user does not have the knowledge to overclock and is too far away for me to support if any problems arise. Any motherboard requirements (no. of USB, Xfire/SLI, fan headers): None that I can think of. Extra information about desired system: I could potentially source second hand components from the marketplace (if the price is right) and if there is enough warranty period left. Here is some homework I have done (all prices from Scan except monitor, I am flexible where I purchase from): As you can see, the i5 and Phenom II X4 builds are over budget but I could get some components second hand and get it under £700. The i3 and Phenom II X2 builds are below budget when purchasing new but see point 2 below. I have the following “qualifications” regarding my choices and would like your expert advice: 1. My view is that USB 3.0 isn’t critical yet and given that it would cost significantly more for a USB 3.0 external backup drive, I haven’t specified it on the motherboard spec. The Asus M4A87TD/USB3 AM3 board is a good board at a good price that just happens to have USB 3.0. H55A/P55A boards with USB 3.0 are significantly more expensive than the H55/P55 boards listed above. As the backup requirement is a small amount of data, using USB 2.0 for backup isn’t an issue. Thoughts? 2. Whilst I think a quad core CPU would be the most future proof choice, the price may not be achievable. My concern on this front is that once he has a “superfast” PC, he will be tempted to start doing things that would stretch a dual core in the future such as latest or future FPS games (even though he says he isn’t interested). So the question is – dual or quad core? Am I better going for a second hand quad than a new dual? 3. I have chosen a Gelid Tranquilo for CPU cooling but I wonder if this is actually needed? Stock Intel and AMD coolers are pants but since he is not overclocking, does it matter? My concern here is more about noise than heat. Thoughts? 4. I have listed a GTS450 as an indicator of the level of GPU that I think would be a good choice (although I think it is overpriced). Tbh that or a 5770 will be more than ample. Whilst it is more than he needs now, if a 1980x1080 resolution is feasible then it gives him more than enough “future-proofing”. Is this too much of an overkill on the GPU front and should I simply go for a 5670 for about a tenner cheaper? I could probably find a second hand 5770 in the marketplace for around £80 so there is leeway for a little saving here. In addition, the GPU market is pretty volatile at the moment so your thoughts here would be appreciated. 5. I have listed the BenQ monitor as I have read good reports on it and it is good value for a 1920x1080 resolution. As he is only an occasional user (he says), he is not sitting in front of the screen for long periods. I think best bang for buck in the given budget is the requirement here. If the monitor needs to drop to a 1680x1050 resolution to fit the budget then he would be fine with that. He is currently using a very old cheap 17” CRT so anything is an improvement. My research has found that 1680x1050 monitors are actually around the same price as the 1920x1080 BenQ listed above so I am not sure there would be much saving here. Thoughts? That is about it, please impress me with your expert advice and knowledge .
You can instantly cut some cost by dropping the memory to 1333MHz or 1066MHz. Since overclocking isn't an issue and the processor/fsb isn't going to be ultra top of the line. 1) USB3 falls under a future proofing thing for me. You may not use it yet, but eventually things will start moving toward USB3 and it might be a good idea to have it on this build since your friend does want some future-proofing. It's not a requirement though and if it brings you over budget then it's not necessary. 2) Games right now put way more stress on the GPU than the CPU. Having a good dual core CPU should be fine for just about every game. Games today aren't made to make full use of more than 2 processing cores. The other cores just sit at like 1% or 2% usage while the first two cores get like 75% and 20% usage. The problem will come when your friend tries to play the latest FPS games on that GTS 450. This, though, is much easier to upgrade and if he feels like playing super high end games then he can pay for a better graphics card and install it himself whenever he feels like it (as long as the mobo has a PCIe 2.0 x16 port). The only thing which really uses more than 2 cores is rendering. 3) Most everyone here agrees that stock cooling while sometimes passable is noisy and therefore unfavorable. The cooler seems fine. 4) I would go with an ATI graphics card. 5750 or 5770 sounds pretty good. If it can't be afforded you can drop to 5670, but I'd stay in the 5xxx generation. 5) I'm not so knowledgeable about monitors, especially in your budget's case, but I would stick with 20"-23" and @ 1920x1080. This is just personal preference though.
Unfortunately here in the UK the price of 1066MHz, 1333MHz RAM and 1600MHz RAM is basically the same. The price I listed for the Corsair 1600MHz RAM is about as low as I have seen a 4GB kit of matched DDR3. I am thinking that myself, USB 3.0 would provide an element of future-proofing but my doubt is what do you use USB for? Once you eliminate the obvious external backup usage, nothing else actually needs the speed of USB 3.0 over USB 2.0. I understand and agree that the vast majority of current games do not use any more than 2 cores. However, my thought here is that with a reasonably priced quad core with decent cache, he would not need to upgrade for a number of years. Given how long it has taken him to find the money for a new PC (17 years), I am not sure he will have money to upgrade the CPU in a couple of years, by which time a new motherboard and CPU would probably be a better value bet. Would a 5750 or 5670 be enough to power , for example, Civ V on full settings @ 1920x1080? Also, given the volatility of the GPU market, the 5750 & 5670 seem overpriced to me. I think a second hand GPU around £80-£90 would give me better bang for buck. Thanks for the feedback.
I'm ahead of you there, I've already posted interest in a couple of threads in the marketplace. Noise is my only concern with those.
Fingers, my 260 GTX that was replaced by my 6870 is going spare. Haven't yet listed on eBay, and its inaudible at full load. PM if interested
Nothing really makes good use of USB3's bandwidth yet. In addition, I don't really see any major advancements with USB3's uses for the next few years at least. Right now it's totally a future investment. If you think that your friend is going to keep this computer for another 17 years then yes, he wants USB3 though . I can't see quad core being all that useful for at least 3 or 4 years, but, by the time 3 or 4 years rolls around, quad core will probably be much more favorable. If you know that he's not going to upgrade for 17 years then maybe you should get him to expand his budget a little and get a quad.
Re: USB 3.0, I think you are right, given how long he goes between spending any money on a PC. However, using either of the Intel boards as an example, the additional cost of getting a USB 3.0 board is about the same or slightly more than buying an add-on USB 3.0 card. I think I will leave USB 3.0 as an optional extra that can be dropped to lower the budget. Buying a dedicated USB 3.0 card in future is an easy option and would only cost £10-£20. Re: quad vs dual, I am leaning more to a quad simply for the reason you outline. I don't think he will want to upgrade the CPU within the next two to three years so what he gets now has to last at least that long. If the buyer was, for example, someone like the forum members here, I would advise going for a dual core and upgrading later when the current generation of quads get cheaper. I don't think that is an option here. If I can build an i5 760 in budget then that is the ideal in my opinion, even if I have to drop the monitor choice down to 1650x1050 and buy some components second hand.
not even close im afriad. for £80-90 your pretty limited and the 2nd hand market may be best. but if its new you need look at a 768MB 460 @ £125 as the 5770 is about £105-110 but isnt as good as a 460 anything less on the GPU and your serisouly compromising its gaming ability. personally if your not going high end GPU id drop the monitor down to a 20" 1600x900 screen as any GPU you get isnt gunna cut it @ 1920x1080 and if it does it wont be for long. when LCD start to stray from native they look awful. with your budget id opt for 955 unless gaming is important then id save the cash and get a X2 245/250 and get a better GPU with the cash saved (around £50-60 giving you about £140-150 for a GPU) maybe a 1GB 460 or a 1GB 6870 and keep the 1920x1080 monitor
I think you are right on the GPU, I am already looking into some second hand cards on the marketplace. I am currently looking at a 4870, a 4890 Vapor-X and a GTX260. the only problem I see is that an older generation card is going to use more power and I may have to up my PSU spec (and cost). Wouldn't a 955 also chew more power than an i5 760 @ stock speeds? The combination of one of the GPU's listed above and a 955 would mean I would need at least a 430w PSU wouldn't it? A second hand 5770 would be good imho as it is a very power efficient card and given that his gaming will be minimal (so he says), would be enough for his needs at either 1920x1080 or 1680x1050.
you could opt for the coolermaster GX 550 its 80 plus certified and backed by a 5 year warranty. its also only £10 more than the antec 380W. yeah a 955 will chew more power than a i5 760 at stock but your not talking 100's of Watts. 4890 is more powerful than a 5770 but it is loud. the 4870 is slightly faster (~10%) than a 5770 but again is quite loud. are you overclocking ? im guessing you are with the after market cooler in whcih case i would recommend something higher than 380W anyway if your adding a GPU that uses a 6pin PCI-e.
Given that this build will not be overclocked (see first post for reason), you could be spot on with getting any reasonable brand 80+ PSU. Maybe I am getting hung up on quality where it is not warranted as the rig will not be stressed too much (expect for my CPU, RAM & PSU burn in testing). The Gelid cooler is in for quietness rather than cooling an overclocked CPU. I actually have a 4870 Vapor-X and it is dead silent, hence my interest in the 4890 Vapor-X. If it works out I could actually take the 4890 myself and pass my 4870 on to his build. I have only had mine since the beginning of the year so it has warranty left on it. In terms of GPU "grunt" needed, I think a 5770 is more than enough for his needs so anything better is a bonus.
personally if your not overclocking drop the aftermarket cooler since the stock cooler is reasonable if your not running it at 100%. its not dead quiet but its not intrusive providing you have decent airflow in the case and dont run the CPU at 100% lol. makes more sense to put the £25 towards a GPU and having £110-120 on a GPU would just about allow for a 768MB 460 which is better than 4870,4890 and 5770
HI, agree with bagpuss, the GTS450 has half the spec of a GTX460 for not much cost. So a GTX460 768mb must be the way to go. But with 6850 / 70 there may be some seriously discounted 5770 popping up i guess soon?
Just to let you know im am just after buying a 275 GTX off here for only 70 pounds including shipping.
I am going to park the GPU question for now, I have a few angles I am trying and will come back to it later. Okay, how about the difference, in the day to day usage expected for this build, between an i5 760 and a Phenom II X4 955? Things such as multitasking, media viewing (either locally or via web), office applications etc? Whilst I can research the gaming differences between the two CPU's (which won't matter given the type of games that are likely to be played), finding comparisons of day to day usage is a little more difficult. Can anyone share any experiences of a comparison between the two CPU's? Also, does anyone have the BenQ G2222HDL monitor? How does it fair?
For the stuff you listed, right now, none. In 5-6 years who knows. I'd go with the Phenom to save a little bit of money and if he wants to upgrade the CPU in 5-6 years then maybe he can pick up a second hand AM3 based CPU. No such option with the 1156 socket. As an added bonus the AMD mobo has USB3 which is meh right now, but if you don't plan to change the mobo for 5+ years then it is a feature I would really like to have. For some reason amazon only returned one result for the RV 02 and it was 40 pounds more than Scan and shipped from Germany (?!). Maybe it's because my Ip address is in Poland instead of the usual one in the UK. Dunno. Have a look at this though: http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cases/2010/09/09/silverstone-raven-rv02-review/1 Unfortunately bit-tech have a rather optimistic price in their reviews. Still a mighty fine case.
