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Build Advice New file server build

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Buzzons, 22 May 2016.

  1. Buzzons

    Buzzons Active Member

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    Hey all,

    I've currently got an hp micro server with 4*2TB Western digital blacks in for all my media and photo work. However it's now totally full :(

    I'm thinking of getting 4*5TB Western digital red disks for media and use two of the current disks for photo work.

    Plan would be to use Microsoft storage spaces to raid 5 the media disks and raid 1 the photo disks.

    As the box is going to do nothing but hold data (doesn't run plex etc so no need to do video transcoding) I was thinking a low power intel 6100/6300 T cpu and 8GB of bog standard ram.

    However I really don't know what motherboard to get... Needs to have 8 SATA ports I guess. And have integrated graphics.

    Also not sure what PSU to get either. Hoping for a passive one to keep noise down. (Same with PSU.. Was thinking either an all in one with super silent fan or a huge passive cooler?)

    Thoughts please!
     
  2. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    8 SATA is pretty much not available on mini-ITX, you'll get 6 max unless you opt for a SATA PCIE card. So it's either mATX or PCIE?
     
  3. PocketDemon

    PocketDemon New Member

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    Would it not be cheaper (both to buy & run) to go for a prebuilt USB3 DAS & connect it to either the main computer or Microserver?

    Say, for example - http://www.span.com/product/8-Bay-S...CM-Tower-Enclosure-for-8x-SATA-6Gb-JBOD~45838


    Alternatively, whilst not as cheap, if you're likely to need to expand the storage significantly then you 'could' look at connecting via SAS.

    i'm using a 24 bay server case with just a SAS port expander & PSU (& drives & fans) in...

    ...though whilst i went for that & a Chenbro CK23601 (with a lsi 9271 in the main machine), it could be made more affordable by using a smaller case &, for example, a 2nd hand 24 port HP expander (though check the card version & that it's got the latest f/w on).
     
    Last edited: 22 May 2016
  4. Buzzons

    Buzzons Active Member

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    PocketDemon - my aim is to bin the Microserver (loud and underpowered - it lags just running 2012R2 .. stupid thing - even with 12GB RAM!) thus I'd like to upgrade the Microserver to something a bit more powerful but also something that can be cooled easily - hence the potential idea of a 6100/6300.

    I'd prefer it all in the R4 as I have it (no added cost, and it has been empty a while). It's also got some decent noise cancelling foam in it which should help with disk / fan noise.

    As for 8 ports -- I'd go for a PCIe SATA expansion / raid card to get all the ports (wouldn't be using the RAID part of it as I'd be using storage spaces) - but not sure which one to get ... are the RocketRaid ones still reasonable?

    I've got an old HP SmartArray P400 that could do 8 disks (SAS or SATA) that I guess I could use? I assume its throughput wouldn't be an issue.

    Then it's just down to cpu/mobo/disks?!
     
  5. edzieba

    edzieba Virtual Realist

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    You want ITX with more SATA ports? How about 12?

    You might want to look into using more smaller drives rather than 4x 5TB drives. Beyond ~3TB, having a single parity drive offers minimal protection due to the likelihood of an unrecoverable read error during array rebuild rising above 50%. Two parity drives (e.g. RAID6, RAIDZ2, etc) is a better idea when using large drives.
     
  6. Buzzons

    Buzzons Active Member

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    Happy to try RAID6 (or whatever storage spaces call it) - just means another disk or two as the space is needed.
     
  7. PocketDemon

    PocketDemon New Member

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    Ah, okay... i read what you'd originally wrote as adding additional storage - not replacing the MS.

    is there any reason why you need it to be a wholly separate machine? Simply that the best thing move i made in years was to ditch the separate 24 bay server build & direct connect it as described.


    Otherwise i can't seen anything inherently wrong with using the P400 - not least as a s/w parity raid is almost certainly going to be the bottleneck.

    it can work with up to 32 drives so you could add a 24 HP port expander rather than buying a new card.


    Personally have almost entirely ditched using raid for now (just the SSDs still in R0 d.t. what i still own & a few temp drives in R1 against drive failure whilst working on stuff) - moving entirely to (at least) 1:1 backup... if you added all of the current 2TB drives to the build along with the new 5TBs would that give you enough space?


    Oh, & just sharing my personal thinking then i've been contemplating buying & shelling at least a couple of 8TB My Books, as they have to have a helium drive in (either Red or HGST, as they're the only drives WD have access to) & for £190 a throw atm then it'd be a reasonable gamble on the warranty - http://store.wdc.com/store/wdeu/en_...eID.563961000/productID.335099600/My_Book_8TB
     
  8. Buzzons

    Buzzons Active Member

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    PD - reason for a dedicated box is that it can then live in my server cupboard and consume far less power than my 5960x being on all the time :)

    I was thinking of maybe going 4x5 or 5x4 (depending on cost) for media and 2x2 in RAID1 for all my professional photo storage (that way there's some local resilience - it's also all pushed to Glacier and Google Drive for offsite backups)

    190£ for the WD MyBook - I assume that's a single 8TB WD disk - would the equivalent be this https://www.overclockers.co.uk/wd-r...-128-mb-cache-hdd-oem-wd80efzx-hd-526-wd.html (£285.95) - that's quite a big price difference???
     
  9. nimbu

    nimbu Well-Known Member

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    I'm finding myself moving full circle back to a pre made NAS unit. I started with a Qnap 2 bay thing and over the years I have used WHS boxes, whitebox synology (xpenology) and linux distributions.

    Right now I have two micro servers (NL54, G8) and a HP media smart. With a mixture of 6TB, 5TB 4TB, 3TB and 2TB drives.

    As I am getting on (and busier at work) I am finding I just want something that works and I dont have to fiddle with it. So right now I am looking at purchasing a either a DS1815+ or a DS2415+.

    Not really advice, just some food for thought.
     
  10. PocketDemon

    PocketDemon New Member

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    i do fully appreciate that you don't want to run the 5960X 24/7 (i'm the same), but do you reasonably *need* access to all of the photos & media files 24/7 via a NAS to justify building an entirely new machine, or is there a significant proportion that you effectively never access or only on the 5960X?

    Yeah, i know the HP MS' really aren't the most powerful things - but i use my Gen8 (w. Win10 Pro - the only upgrade being to 8GB) as a basic 24/7 webmail/browsing/etc machine & 3rd/4th separate backup for more important files, & it's perfectly adequate unless i try to open the world of tabs...

    [NB there's a SSD + 4x2TB in mine which are effectively mirrored using DrivePool - though without any striping as you'd get with R10 / & with data being able to exceed 2TB on either pair which would be the issue with 2x R1...

    ...with the drives on the SAS DAS then DP is about more efficient drive aggregating, better data organisation than simple spanning with placement rules, the drives can be pulled & the data read on any machine (whereas Storage Spaces cries) + the 2nd point above; but the data's backed up on identical capacity drives rather than (effectively) mirrored.]​

    ...so 'if', as i kind of suspect, you don't actually need 24/7 access to everything, then whilst keeping the MS for stuff you're actually likely to want to access on other machines (or additional backup)...

    ...it provisionally appears that you may be attempting to add storage capacity in a way that's either very costly (by building a new machine to replace the MS when you don't need 24/7...) or will have more limited future storage upgrade paths for the money (vs either a prebuilt USB or put together SAS DAS).

    That's the last i'll say on all of that though, as it's your money & choice & whatnot - & either what's written so far is useful or it'd be flogging a dead horse.


    As to the 8TB My Book, unless you lucked out with old stock & got a HGST He8, it's not equivalent to the WD80EFZX; it is the WD80EFZX... ...& will be until there's a 8TB Blue (previous My Books used/switched to Greens) as there are no other 8TB drives that WD have available to use in them.

    Obviously there are other My Books with >1 drive in - so, for example, the 8TB My Book Duo will have 2x4TB drives in (prob Green/Blue)... ...so, whilst it should be grandmothers & eggs, it's not about buying any 8TB WD external drive of course.

    Ttbomk, partly the difference in price is down to the warranty - 2 years for the My Book & 3 for the Red // partly that there 'should' be less heat & vibration put on the drive vs being one of many in a server/NAS/whatever so the replace rate is likely to be lower for WD // & partly that they're marketed to different customer segments - with the externals being more mainstream consumer orientated than the internals.

    As shelling voids the warranty though then obviously you'd want to run reasonable checks that the drive's sound before doing so... (i did have a single brand new 4TB Red fail once a couple of TB of data was copied to it, so i'd add that to any generic r/w scanning tests) ...& my thinking is that it's slightly better than the nominal 2/3rds 2nd hand rule for an identical new drive.
     
  11. Buzzons

    Buzzons Active Member

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    So fileserver currently provides backups and roaming profiles for all windows devices on the network (laptops / desktops etc) so kind of has to be on all the time - it also provides the media for the XBMC boxes too.

    While the microserver is laggy, it's also the noise (even when it's in the cupboard) that just bugs me! hence the R4 case with all the lovely noise dampening!

    could be tempting to go for the WD cased drives and crack them open- could save some cash.


    Re rest of build though - CPU sensible choice? Are there any recommended motherboards to go for that would fit the bill (no need for many SATA ports now as going for the HP card) - as for silent PSUs it seems Seasonic do a decent 400w fanless -- but would it be better to get one that has a fan (but doesn't use it that often?)
     
  12. gamesaregood

    gamesaregood Well-Known Member

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    I'm afraid the P400 only support 2TB drives Max :(
     
    PocketDemon likes this.
  13. PocketDemon

    PocketDemon New Member

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    That's a very good point - my apologies, as i was thinking of the P410.


    Otherwise, i've just ordered a pair of the 8TB WD My Books from BT Shop - slightly more expensive upfront than direct from WD, but there's 3.18% cashback via TopCashBack today.


    [Edit]

    As an aside, 'if' you did want to go above 8 drives then i have a P410 (with the 512MB cache card & a new battery) + a HP port expander kicking around... ...& probably some cables - at least enough to connect the two together... ...maybe a few more.

    i didn't think to mention it d.t. misreading which card you had, but if it helps then we can discuss.
     
    Last edited: 29 May 2016
  14. Buzzons

    Buzzons Active Member

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    booo! that's just useless :( (and I'd just ordered the 2 SATA expander cable things for the P400!
     
  15. GiGo

    GiGo was once a nerd.....

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    How much are you looking at spending? If only for storage surely a basic NAS will do the job:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Synology-D...1464712021&sr=8-1&keywords=synology+8+bay+nas

    Fill it with 8x6TB WD Red's bung it on RAID6 and you'll happy with the 32TB of storage, will cost you close to 2k but well worth it ;) You can also run Plex it if you wanted too and many other apps ;)

    Just checked prices and very happy with the fact the NAS has only come down by £30 and the drives by £10 in the last year!

    It's been running for over a year now and I purchased 4gb of RAM extra, runs like a dream. But depends on budget, I did look at the HP microserver and look at building a system, but by the time you piece it together and get the licence's for Windows etc... it works out only marginally cheaper.
     
  16. Buzzons

    Buzzons Active Member

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    GiGo I would get a NAS box but it doesn't meet everything the box needs to do (as it runs my network at home (DNS/DHCP/Auth)) - so sadly I have to go with a full PC - I'd keep the Microserver for the network stuff but it's so loud I want rid of it.

    Would the I3-6300T be a good enough CPU to run it on though? Any recommendations for a motherboard that will fit in a R4 case.
     
  17. GiGo

    GiGo was once a nerd.....

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    Have a look at Synology boxes, they can control DCHP and DNS stuff. You might be very surprised! I don't use mine for that I simply use mine for storage and a torrent box, so I have no idea how easy it is to setup.
     
  18. Buzzons

    Buzzons Active Member

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    So current thoughts are as follows - (just need HDDs and a Raid Card I guess..)

    PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

    CPU: Intel Core i3-6300T 3.3GHz Dual-Core Processor (£119.99 @ Overclockers.co.uk)
    CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U12S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler (£49.49 @ Ebuyer)
    Motherboard: ASRock H170A-X1 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (£67.67 @ CCL Computers)
    Memory: Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory (£47.83 @ CCL Computers)
    Storage: Samsung 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (£64.99 @ Amazon UK)
    Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Titanium Grey) ATX Mid Tower Case (£78.53 @ CCL Computers)
    Power Supply: be quiet! PURE POWER 9 400W 80+ Silver Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply (£51.89 @ CCL Computers)
    Total: £480.39
    Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
    Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-06-02 10:35 BST+0100
     
  19. GeorgeStorm

    GeorgeStorm Aggressive PC Builder

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    I'm not really up to date, but I would have thought you could get an AMD APU/CPU for less than that that would fit the bill, or is it the motherboard that limits you?

    Think the cooler and RAM are a bit over the top unless I've misread the thread as you're not exactly going to be pummeling the machine?
     
  20. PocketDemon

    PocketDemon New Member

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    Not an attempt to influence you about anything we're discussing privately (i'd replied to you prior to checking on the thread), but if you're going to be spending so much on the thing then i would really consider biting the bullet & going for a 24 bay server case.

    Well, whilst it'd cost you ~£300 for a basic 4U case, so ~£220 over what you're planning atm, you then have the flexibility to expand the storage into the future without having to replace drives...

    ...as the 8 drives you currently have would mostly fill the R4 (well, you could add 3 more in the 2x 5.25 bays with a caddy, but that'd be ~£45 for the caddy).

    [Edit]

    Obviously there'd be additional cash for an expander at some point & extra cables & whatnot when you did want to expand...

    ...but, having maxed out my 4U case with what i had to hand originally (plus 4x 2TBs in the MS & a 4TB that i use with the Sheild & whatnot), with the couple of 8TBs (that arrived today) then it's replacing a couple of 2TB ones (that i'll keep as spares) rather than any of the 4TBs...

    ...but i've already ended up with 11x 1 & 1.5TB drives that are sat on the shelf with no use for them from previous capacity upgrading.

    (i am a data whore though)
     
    Last edited: 2 Jun 2016

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