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New Orleans = Screwed

Discussion in 'Serious' started by RotoSequence, 28 Aug 2005.

  1. Dad

    Dad You talkin to me?

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    Not saying that it does. In fact, I totally agree with you about that, but that's the past. With the current situation, we can't dwell over could've and would've.



    Updates:
    (CNN) -- A convoy of military vehicles plowed through the flooded streets of New Orleans on Friday bringing food, water and medicine to the thousands of people trapped at a downtown convention center.

    The relief effort came as President Bush toured the Gulf Coast to survey damage from Hurricane Katrina and shortly after the mayor of New Orleans said the city was "holding on by a thread."

    The commanding general in charge of the relief effort in New Orleans was directing the operation from a street corner. He told the troops, part of a deployment of 1,000 members of the National Guard, to make sure they kept their guns down. (See video of the convoy roll through floodwaters -- 3:33)

    "A few moments ago, he stopped a truck full of National Guard Troops ... and said, 'Point your weapons down, this is not Iraq,'" said CNN's Barbara Starr who is traveling with the three-star general.



    NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Hurricane Katrina and subsequent flooding in the Southeast could cost the economy more than $100 billion, which would make it the costliest storm to hit the United States, a company that assesses the impact of natural disasters said Friday.

    Risk Management Solutions said the economic impact includes damages from high winds and the coastal surge caused by Katrina as well as the flooding in New Orleans after levees around the city were swamped by the storm.

    The estimated cost of Katrina easily dwarfs the losses from Hurricane Andrew, which, adjusted for inflation, cost $43.6 billion in economic damages.

    RMS, based in Newark, Calif., on Monday forecast that insured losses from Katrina would total $10 billion to $25 billion. It made that forecast before levees protecting New Orleans, which lies mostly below sea level, failed, and has yet to update it.
     
    Last edited: 2 Sep 2005
  2. quack

    quack Minimodder

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    On the arrival of 300 "battle-tested" National Guardsmen:
    Mayor Nagin's comments on the lack of rapid response to the disaster to WWL-AM -
    Listen to the interview | The transcript - The guy sure is passionate, and I totally understand why.

    Lawlessness getting out of control... hopefully the influx of National Guardsmen will quell the problems.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 2 Sep 2005
  3. bloodcar

    bloodcar Minimodder

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    A couple of things I want to say real quick...

    Dad, I just picked up one of my very close friends from the airport a few hours ago. He's in the U.S. Army Rangers and said that they were stationed somewhere (I can't remember exactly where) in Louisianna. They were moved out three hours before the hurricane hit and went back to their base in Kansas. He's currently back home on a four day leave. Now what I don't understand is the fact that not only is the Rangers a tactical team, but they also perform rescue operations... then why weren't they sent right back down there once things started to settle? He's been station in Kansas for around eight months now and they're just sitting there doing training and awaiting being shipped over to Iraq (which they possibly won't even go). This is pointless and a total lack of care caused by our government.

    Another thing is that the refineries and two major pipelines that are running below 30% capacity don't even supply the U.S. with oil! The majority of it is shipped to China and the same goes with the Alaskan pipeline whos majority is shipped to San Diego (or San Francisco, I can't remember which one) and then shipped to Japan. The majority of the oil that the U.S. consumes comes from Saudi Arabi (sp?) where George Bush, George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and a large portion of the White House cabinet members have oil contracts. In short, while we're facing ever increasing increases in all oil based products, our *faithful President is sitting back and getting rich off of us becoming poor. Our government is a complete joke and honestly I think the best way to fix it would just be to just form a new government as our current is just beyond repair. We won't fall to an attack from another country... they're just sitting there waiting for our internal collapse.

    This whole situation just pisses me off beyond belief. There's small children who are dying everyday because of the lack of food of water. Hundreds of people are dying from exposure and the current involvement is going to cost hundreds if not thousands of more lives. Yes, they've finally sent help, but I fear that it's in a too little/too late situation for a lot of people.

    I love our country with every ounce of my being, but I absolutely hate our government.

    * denotes sarcasm
     
  4. bloodcar

    bloodcar Minimodder

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    You DO realize that people have lived in that area for hundreds of years, don't you? Houses were originally built in that area on stilts because alot of it is marshland. However in the early 20th century developers started filling in the marsh lands with dirt even though that it was strongly advised against. There were times that New Orleans actually sat at or slightly above sea level. The area is STILL a marshland though so the the ground just sinks.

    You said people shouldn't live there because it MIGHT get hit by a hurricane but yet Katrina affected areas HUNDREDS of miles away from the coast. Should they have moved away because they could get hit by a hurricane? What you're saying is the equivalent of saying that people should move out of the China and India because they have a possibility of being hit by a tsunami. So in essence, what you're trying to do is defend ******** with ******** and I'm afraid all you're doing is making a very large, smelly pile.
     
  5. MrWillyWonka

    MrWillyWonka Chocolate computers galore!

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    Calm down a bit, but I totally agree with you. I doubted at first but from what I've heard is that there is only one city in the USA that has not been hit by a natural disaster. Move San Francisco because its by a fault line, move the entire state of Tenessee because it's in tornado alley? Move New Orleans because its in a hurricane zone? So is every American gonna live in one city where there are no natural disasters? It's not, and it can't happen!

    Have been watching Tonight with Trevor McDonald and BBC News, there seems to be reasons for the delay in food and water - blocked roads, the fact that most food and water for emergencies are in the northern parts of the US and various other reasons. But 5 days on, it seems ridiculous that people in one of the richest countries on the planet have to suffer. Does anyone else think theres some racism issue here? I've only seen a few white people in New Orleans on the news.
     
  6. kiljoi

    kiljoi I *am* a computer king.

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    http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/2005/08/27/
    Link to a blog that a guy holed up in a datacenter on the 10th floor of a high rise in downtown NO is posting. Without a doubt, one of the best, most tragic, and horrifying things I have ever read. He described the city as "Lord of the Flies part 2: Escape from New Orleans." I think that sums it up pretty well. This whole thing just amazes me. I honestly cannot believe how bad things are, and there really doesn't seem to be an end in sight.
     
  7. DivineSin

    DivineSin What's a Dremel?

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    I personally hope once this is all over our president becomes impeached. That whole playing a guitar while people were drowning thing just really turns my stomach. It sucks that it took them 4 or 5 days to get to a city that is on our OWN soil.

    I dont think New Orleans has any chance to be re-built within the near future unless they completly ignore water damage to houses and just let them rot instead of knocking them down and building over them (Hey wait..they did that in california with the that major earthquake..).

    Hopefully the city will be moved to somewhere that has a vast majority of open land where they can build cheaply. It seems like there is no chance to rebuilt the city, even after the water has been pumped out unless they want to spend billions knocking everything down and years rebuilding everything else.

    Wouldnt the soil be too moist to even build on in the first place after this? I'm sure that the sand that was dumped into the marshlands is only soaking up the water now..maybe the entire city will turn into a marshland again?
     
  8. Captain Slug

    Captain Slug Infinite Patience

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    How and over what?

    #1 First and foremost 95% of the people now trapped in New Orleans were unconditionally ordered to leave. They had 3 DAYS of warning in which to leave by any means at their disposal whether it was by car, boat, bike, or on foot. New Orleans is not really that large in a geographic sense.
    #2 The state waited to the very last minute to declare this an emergency situation and hand over control to other organizations. While doing so they were evacuating people to unsecured locations and then abandoning them there.
    #3 The vast majority of the now refugees blatantly ignored the fact that it's their responsibility to bring with them enough supplies to survive for ATLEAST 72 hours.
    #4 FEMA and the Red Cross have never been and never will be capable of providing their own security and have never had to work in such a violent and uncooperative environment.
    #5 Most of the Mississippi river region is flooded to the extent that there are no passable roads. New Orleans is at the southern most tip of the state and doens't have a large number of access points where supplies could arrive from
    #6 The populace has done nothing of it's own free will to make it any easier for aid to be supplied. Instead of cooperating with authorities and working towards security the bare necessities they're acting like martyrs, vagrants, and pillagers. What do I need more? Clean water or a TV I can't sell to anyone?
     
  9. Dad

    Dad You talkin to me?

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    Yes, the media seems to show only black Americans, but there are many, many white Americans in the mix. The thing is that the media is focusing on New Orleans, which has a VERY large black population. If you watch video & pics from places like Biloxi, Gulf Port and the other dozens of cities and towns effected, you'll see a lot more white people. I really don't think there's a racial issue eventhough certain people like Jesse Jackson and a few black Congressmen seem to think so.

    Bloodcar, I couldn't agree with you more one what you said. I, along with most of the rest of the country, am disgusted at the speed of how this was responded to. Can't get trucks of supplies there? Well, it seems that private citizens from Florida can get their personal semi's in there, why can't the military? If you still have issues about getting in, why not use those large UH-60 Black Hawks or better yet a few dozen CH-47D Chinooks? Something is far better than nothing.

    Every American citizen needs to ask these questions. It seems that the government is more keen on helping other nations than it is about helping American citizens. It's time for a change people, in the end WE as the voting public have the ability to enact such change. I'm not talking about voting Democrat or Republican next time around as in all honesty does it really matter what political party the candidate is from? It'll always come down to the same old BS. We need to vote on the issues, we need to make a stink about how much money we send oversees while at the same time how many services and programs are cut domestically. This government needs to put the interests of it's citizens first and foremost above the needs of a foreign nation, no matter who it is.
     
  10. DivineSin

    DivineSin What's a Dremel?

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    Why? Just because these states arnt declaring national emergency doesnt mean the president cannot send troops on small craft and military vehicles to help the police officers who themselves are looting and not helping the states as much as they should.

    Also, have you not heard that the president cut funding on the levies (sp) that wouldnt of made this such horrible disaster for the city of new orleans? All these things that were meant to stop the water from overflowing into the city were old, and had there budget cut so they couldnt be repaired.

    And last but not least, while helicopters are being shot at for trying to help, the president is sitting pretty being awarded a guitar instead of being in conferences trying to help these people. As stated before, the tsunami that hit asia was immediatly helped by our troops at the cost of 5million a day, while it takes our government 5 days to even begin to send a small amount of troops to help these people.
     
  11. Dad

    Dad You talkin to me?

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    Under the constitution, the president by law can not do that without authorization from the state. It falls under the same category as the feds not having juristiction in any criminal case unless the suspect crosses state borders. After doing a bit of research, I found out something very interesting for us (yes, I'm in the list) who are bashing Bush for not doing something in advance. Come to find out that on August 27th, a full 2 days before Katrina hit, "Bush declared a state of emergency in Louisiana because of the approach of Hurricane Katrina, and his spokesman urged residents along the coast to heed authorities’ advice to evacuate." All that needed to be done to mobilize the military prior to Katrina landing is the govenor of Louisiana making a phone call to the White House. This isn't the feds fault, this is completely the fault of Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D) and her administration.
     
  12. kiljoi

    kiljoi I *am* a computer king.

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hurricane_Katrina&action=purge
    Wikipedia entry for Katrina. Lots of interesting info. (although I don't know how true it is). And I agree with you guys, this is utter BS. We can be fully mobilized and providing support for a country halfway across the world, but it takes us a week, to go somewhere within our own borders? There is something seriously wrong with that. I saw a post on /. in response to the Katrina article, which basically said "America, welcome to your shame." I don't think that could ring any truer. It is disgraceful how this situation has been handled, from Bush pulling levee funding over the years, to taking a week to get supplies to people. And for all you folks complaining about the people that didn't leave, most of them are people who didn't have the means to leave, nor the health to just start walking. I know if I was a 70 year old man with arthritis and diabetes, I'd sure as hell vote for trying to beat the hurricane than test my luck walking a couple hundred miles down a freeway in the middle of the Southern Summer.
     
  13. Haddy

    Haddy World Domination

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    Those levees wouldnt not have held anyway...They were designed for a cat 3 hurricane..Katrina was a 4 and might as well been a 5 (5mph difference). With a 20ft storm surge and with the pumps not working (nobody seems to want to hold the people who left the pumps unattended account able) the water that did get in could not be pumped out.

    Nobody in this area was prepared for this storm. Even the news stations made light of it and didnt really advise anyone to get prepare, just to evacuate the costal regions. The storm also made a course change a few hours before it hit and thats why the flooding was so bad as the storm surge (20-30ft) went right into the lake with no outlet but over onto the land.

    Also as for the racism? New Orleans is probably 75-80% black...Numbers are numbers your going to see alot more of them because there are just more of them period. I did love the one on O'Riley complaining that she hadnt had a hot meal in 3 days, just MREs. I was hoping her father next to her would smack her but to no avail....
     
  14. Dad

    Dad You talkin to me?

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    Earlier today I would have agreed 100%, but come to find out, it wasn't just Bush. It started with Clinton... I can't find any links (remember, it was 10ish years ago in the infancy of the Web), but I distinctly remember him pulling funding because the company I worked for at the time had a HUGE data center down there and everyone was talking about it at work. In fact, we moved the data center out of the city and into New York in direct response to that.

    Hehehehe... You see that one too? Was it me or did her father seem disgusted with her attitude? :)

    Also, you been watching Geraldo Revera crying and pleading for help? :eyebrow: :rolleyes: I mean, yea, okay, the reports he is doing are very, very sad and deplorable, but come on man, you're a reporter on live tv.
     
  15. yodasarmpit

    yodasarmpit Modder

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    Mass rescue only now just happening, just about 3 days too late.
    I am struggling to comprehend why the help has taken this long to come to those trapped in the city.
    The resources were there to mount the rescue operation, but only now is it being coordinated.

    I imagine a lot of Americans are feeling very let down by the authorities right now.
     
  16. bloodcar

    bloodcar Minimodder

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    Bush may have declared a state of emergency two days before Katrina hit, but have you noticed just how much he didn't seem to care until his approval ratings started dropping dramtically? I think this whole situation has been handeled terribly and we're just now starting to see help because of the entire world being dissappointed in how it's being handeled. Here's a short animated flash file that I found that hits the situation in N.O. on the head. If I were in an afflicted area and it took days before help came, I'd probably go mad with rage, but I wouldn't take it to the extreme that some of these people are. Shooting at rescue workers and looting is just uncalled for. And just what are you going to do with that brand new tv that you just stole if you don't have electricity?

    Warning! The following link contains ALOT of profanity.
    http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/262703
     
  17. yodasarmpit

    yodasarmpit Modder

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  18. Dad

    Dad You talkin to me?

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    I'm one of them and there are millions more who feel the same as me and are asking the same questions. Mainly we don't understand why it took so long to get supplies and help to these people when we can get massive supply drops to people in Iraq or the Tsunami victims within 48 hours.


    I agree that the entire government needsto share the blame for this, I'm only trying to point out that it's not just his fault. I don't know about the approval ratings and all that, I haven't been following that angle. I can't stand the fact that a lot of elected officials are politicizing this disaster so I try and not watch any of that.

    Couldn't have said it better myself.
     
  19. cpu121

    cpu121 What's a Dremel?

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    Have those complaining about the time it's taken for the National Guard to deploy considered that the forces sent to the Tsunami region last region for mainly active duty troops already deployed close to the region with their own transportation, whereas the National Guard have to be activated, gathered together, find transport, briefed and then deployed? From reading Tom Clancy books etc it seems the Air Force have to be ready to go within 24hrs whereas the Air National Guards have a 72hr deployment time.
     
  20. Dad

    Dad You talkin to me?

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    It's not that we're complaining about how long it took the Nat Guard to get there as much as why it took so long for ANYONE from the federal govt or military to get there. They really should have mobilized the active duty military along side of the Nat Guard. They are only just starting to deploy the active military over the past few days - Other than MP's, the only active military that I know of that's there (that I know of) is the 4th infintry division has been mobilized, but that was just yesterday. Saying that, I have to commend the Coast Guard for their response. Those people where there as soon as the winds died down. In addition, if there is a 72hr deployment time, that would have been Wednesday. They are only now starting to arrive in force.
     

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