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Equipment Nikon D3 & D300 announced!

Discussion in 'Photography, Art & Design' started by Nath, 23 Aug 2007.

  1. Nath

    Nath Your appeal has already been filed.

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  2. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Both the cameras, and their price tag...
     
  3. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    My D3 is already on pre-order with the Nikon rep. The D300, looks tasty but my D200 will be a fine back up body with my DX lenses. My only worry is how to get the D3x by my wife when it's release in the winter. Going from 1 to 3 cameras, not counting the film bodies around the house, is bound to raise suspicion. I need a black-ops slush fund.

    I am now rethinking my lens purchases for the next year with the 14-24/2.8 and the 24-70/2.8, but will wait to get a first hand look at their quality (build and optical) before even thinking about them.
     
    Last edited: 23 Aug 2007
  4. Naked_Dave

    Naked_Dave What's a Dremel?

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    Gwah, I was just about to buy a D200! Now I don't know whether to wait or not!
     
  5. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    Depends on what you need, tbh. Can live with with 10Mp and 5fps? and noise above ISO 800? or do you want to wait and see what that 12Mp sensor can pump out? I'll tell you that the D200+17-55/2.8+SB-800 really make you work, because you simply can't fault the equipment. I'm sure that from there on up there isn't anything that is going to hold you back. Especially with the way the new lenses look in the charts. They have better light transmission then the primes do..... on paper. Either way, buy the grip, the D200 likes the powah. and it feels nice.
     
    Last edited: 23 Aug 2007
  6. Naked_Dave

    Naked_Dave What's a Dremel?

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    I do a lot of ground level stuff, so the live view would be the biggest bonus for me... there's also the question of whether the D200 will get cheaper when the D300 comes out :p
     
  7. scq

    scq What's a Dremel?

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    Now that the D3 is full frame and cheaper than the Canon 1Ds, I wonder if that'll prompt them to update the 5D to maintain the entry-full frame edge.
     
  8. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    2 different price points, 2 different markets. The D3 is the competitor to the MkIII. The 5D is positioned oddly with no Nikon equivalent, since until today everything was APS.

    My point being, why would they? There is no market pressure to. The D300 is APS. And the D3 is anything but entry anything. It blows the 5D away in build quality, handling and features. And if this new CMOS is up to snuff, then in IQ as well. Maybe if Sony goes after that market segment......
     
    Last edited: 23 Aug 2007
  9. olv

    olv he's so bright

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    i'm slightly bemused. yes the spec is very impressive and a huge leap forward for nikon, but they seem considerably more expensive then their canon equiv. and why can't they just pick a continuous frame rate and stick with it? none of this, well if you put your penis in it and a bigger battery you get 2 more fps?!

    be really interested to see some high ISO 3200/6400/and beyond examples
     
  10. scq

    scq What's a Dremel?

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    I don't think the D3 is a direct competitor with the 1Ds. The 1Ds is significantly more expensive than the D3. They are both the top offerings for either company, but it's a strange price point. I suppose these cameras aren't meant to be competitive anyways since most people who buy them are already owners of a Canon or Nikon system, and won't resort to side by side comparisons of brands when deciding on a camera.

    The 5D is strangely without competition, but then what could be said about the D300? If the D300 is the 40D, then what does that make the D40 or the D80?
     
  11. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    The D3 is meant to compete with th 1DmkIII, the upcoming D3x will compete with the 1DsmkIII. They are 2 different markets, one is sports/PJ-the other is high end studio. Compare the 1DmkIII with the D3 and on paper it looks interesting. That only sweetens the out look for the D3x. Mid 20's Mp, 35mm sensor, Nikon handling......

    I said the 5D is oddly positioned because it had a 35mm sensor, yet lacks the build quality and features of a pro body. That doesn't stop the wedding guys from loving it, but the D200/300 are positioned differently. They have APS sensors and incredible build quality and 95% of the feature set of a pro body at 1/4 the price. So when you mentioned that the 5D was an entry level, 35mm equipped camera- I said that it had no Nikon competition. Now IF the APS sensor in the D300 performs as hoped......But it is still a crop body. The main selling point of the 5D is 35mm sensor cheaper then a 1Ds. And for those who buy it, that is the only thing that matters so a crop body isn't a consideration.

    The 40D was upgraded to match the D200, who's sales went beyond Nikon's wildest dreams. Along side the D70, the D200 arguably saved Nikon's butt.
    The D40 is positioned below the 400D and the D80 above it. The product lines are staggered, getting closer and closer up to the pro bodies where they are 1:1.

    D3x --1DsmkII
    D3 --1DmkII
    xx --5D
    D300-- xx
    D200-- 40D
    D80 -- xx
    xx -- 400D
    D40 -- xx

    If I were Canon, I would bring out a new 5D body in 2 years, not now. There is simply no need. I would wait and take the time to develop a next gen body. That would put it out in the market 1/2 way between the upgrade cycle of the pro bodies, show casing where Canon is heading.
     
    Last edited: 24 Aug 2007
  12. scq

    scq What's a Dremel?

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    I wouldn't say the 5D build quality isn't professional grade. Sure, you won't get 1D quality, but it's as robust as Nikon's lower-high end offers.

    It's an odd decision for Nikon to couple a full frame sensor for the D3 as a competitor to the 1DmkIII. For sports photographers, you'd think they'd prefer a cropped sensor to get that extra reach on their telephotos.
     
  13. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    It's also a Photojournalist camera (look at the 2 lenses released with the body), who like wide angles. And it has a high speed DX crop option, at 5Mp which is fine for news print. The point is that you get 12Mp fast, and (PLEASE god let it be true) noise free. There is plenty of room to crop. The D3x, one assumes, will carry that over and at 20+Mp the high speed crop should be around 10Mp, good enough for magazine print. So in both bodies, you get the best of both worlds.

    The 5D is used by a lot of pros, don't get me wrong. But it isn't up to the build quality of a D2/3 or a 1D/s. I wouldn't take it out in the rain, where I have shot with a D2 and a D200. I wouldn't want it in a dust storm, or desert rally, which I have done with the D200. The wedding guys love it, for good reason. It's DR and ISO performance is primo. But the body just isn't built to "throw it in the defender and sprint to the next spot" or "I got bumped and dropped it, picked it up and kept shooting" standards. The reason why the D200 is such a value, is that it has the weather sealing and toughness -not counting the grip (I'm on my third)- in a smaller body and was only 2Mp off the D2 (and now the same as the D3 for the D300). They also have the same HOTAS the a pro body does. The last 2 5D's I had in my hand didn't. That is a huge difference.

    I think, given my history of posts here, you'll see that I'm not anti-Canon. I have my reasons for using Nikon and they aren't necessarily what you might think they are. I am just pointing out things that are commonly known. The 5D is a good camera, and for some, the only 35mm sensored camera that is affordable. Which it was designed to be. They had to make it cheaper and that comes with compromises. In the end it only matters what you can do with it. Buying a D3 won't make me a better photographer, but it will hopefully make concert/nightclub/social event photography a bit easier. and the D3x will still be cheaper then a digital back and a MF camera for advertising.

    Nikon has a different approach to the market and marketing then Canon does. With the MkII's and the D2x/h, there was a lot of perception that Nikon was behind the market, irregardless of the images or the sales numbers (more D2's were sold then MkII's and more D200's then 5D's). Now I think Nikon has come out strong with the D3 and D3x coming. Not everyone sees that, but looking at what they kept, added, and left off; most people agree that that perception is gone. The MkIII's (once the AF gets fixed, it really is bad) and the D3/x (provided the sensors are what we hope they are) are a great step forward and combine a lot of exciting technology.

    For fun dig: And we still have Nikon's flash set up! which (trust me), on camera or off, is miles ahead of Canon.
     
    Last edited: 24 Aug 2007
  14. scq

    scq What's a Dremel?

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    If the 40D is a D200 equivalent, isn't Canon lagging behind?
     
  15. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    Now you see why Nikon shooters are pumped. The D300 was a big surprise, since we knew that the 40D was coming. The D2-D200 combo was great. But a D3-D300, D3x-D3, or a D3x-D300 combo gives you a lot of value and flexibility.

    It's not about who's ahead or behind. It's about options and the price drops they bring. Consumers win. Photogs win.
     
  16. scq

    scq What's a Dremel?

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    Not necessarily. While there will always be competition for new users, people with already-established systems are pretty much stuck with one or the other unless they invest thousands to tens of thousands on new lenses and accessories - so established photographers never really win.

    However, price compared, the 30/40D series has always been cheaper than the Dxxx series.
     
  17. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    While you might not switch based on your lenses, there are studios and papers that would given a big enough reason to; especially since they have to upgrade bodies regularly. A lot of people spent a lot of money switching from Nikon to Canon in the late 80's and early 90's when Canon's AF was king. They (canon) spent tons of money in getting people to switch. And, based on what I have heard, there are people who switched to Canon for image reasons but never liked the bodies and feel of Canon; they are seriously thinking about switching back. I know two guys here that were waiting before making that choice. I need to get a beer with them and see what they are thinking now. The Canon rep sits down with us every 6 months to see if we want to switch, and the offer usually is that they will swap bodies 1 for 1, and good discounts on lenses. Every time there is a shift like this, the companies want to see visible people using their products. So we do win. Competition in the market is always good. And for people that don't make that kind of investment, they still win, by getting better products. Products that are pushed due to the competition. Or else Canon wouldn't have any reason to bring out a 40D, because the 30 was a good enough camera.

    The 20/30/40D are cheaper because they lack the features and build quality. I can take a co workers 20D and twist it in my hands and hear the body creak. And, again, everything is menu driven so trying to change anything fast is a pain. The D200 has a richer feature set, with all the controls where you can reach them fast. ISO, flash setup, WB, quality, EV comp, bracketing, AF lock, EV lock, flash comp.....all buttons on the outside where you can reach them in the dark and with out removing the camera from your eye (ok maybe not flash setup, that is a reach). Again, I'm not saying the XXD series aren't great cameras, just that they are cheaper for a reason. A good reason-because they are meant for a different market segment. You can get great results from them, my co worker is twice the photographer that I am and she does just fine with a 20D. We do tend to shoot very different things, though. And she is way more careful with her camera then I am with mine.

    I think people spent to much time comparing X camera to Y camera, when they rarely are built for the same reasons. If they did that, then you'd have the P&S market, where every camera is the same. The market has never been more diverse then it is now, with a dSLR for every budget and level. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a crap dSLR out there.
     
    Last edited: 24 Aug 2007
  18. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    I've always seen build quality as a non-issue for a vast majority of the market. Sure, you might be able to grab the body and twist it until you hear it creak, but how does that relate to real world use? I've read numerous stories of people running their 20Ds through the ringer, only to come out just fine on the other end. For 95% of the population, the magnesium-alloy skeleton and polycarbonate body allow the XXD line to hold up to a lifetime of normal wear and tear. Heck, my 300D survived several seconds in a camp fire with minimal surface damage, and though I believe the heat caused some loss in image quality, you really have to look hard to see it. Can't say the same for the lens, though. It's toast.

    As for the feature set, many of the features you've listed are accessible via buttons on the outside of the camera. As with any camera, once you get used to the locations, you can change various settings without taking your eye off the viewfinder. On the other hand, if you don't have time to look away for a brief moment, chances are you don't really have time to change a particular setting to begin with.

    I know I come across as a Canon fanboy. I've shot with both major formats, and I'll be the first to admit that they both have their strengths and weaknesses. I just think that some of the comparisons out there don't add up to much.

    -monkey
     
  19. Jumeira_Johnny

    Jumeira_Johnny 16032 - High plains drifter

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    I agree with everything you said. The cameras out there are better then ever (not counting the classic film bodies). My point simply is, there is a reason for the different price points and market segments. I've always been the first to admit that there are better photographers out there with 350D's and D50's. one look at flickr explore will tell you that.
     
  20. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    Very true. I think you're right that there is now a camera for every taste in every price bracket. I still would like to go back to 4x5 film, but the ease and relative cost of digital is just too good right now.

    -monkey
     
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