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Wii / Wii U Nintend'oh

Discussion in 'Gaming' started by Slink, 30 Mar 2006.

  1. K

    K 528491

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    And did this not just look like one of the most gorgeous games ever? This is Okami.

    Bindi: Can you not see yourself coming back to RE4 in 5 years time and not enjoying it because of the graphics? This game doesn't look 'current gen' to me, unlike a lot of early GC and PS2 games. It will hold a great aesthetic for ages. If the GC is capable of that and the Rev is more powerful...? Well, I don't think there will be a problem, personally. I think the current gen games will hold a nice clean aesthetic for a long time yet, unlike the dated muddy and jagged visuals of the previous generation :)


    Just a few general points (not aimed at you Bindi, just saying): I can see an awful lot of people who are into multiple consoles buying either: A PS3 and a Rev or a X360 and a Rev. I can't see many people buying a 360 AND a PS3... Because the Revolution is going to be something completely different. If it weren't for the exclusive titles, the 360 and the PS3 might as well be the same console. 90% of the titles will probably be available to each one. The things that will swing it for these two are the exclusive titles, their online capabilities and, for Sony, Blu-Ray. I think it's fair to say if you want to continue playing games like we are now, you're going to have to invest in one or the other. If you just invest in a Revolution I really doubt you're gonna be playing ports of popular mainstream titles like Splinter Cell anymore. Something to think about. I'm all for progress, but I still love games like these.
     
  2. K

    K 528491

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  3. mookboy

    mookboy BRAAAAAAP

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    I think that the incidence of genuinely visually arresting games is so low that it's a moot point when considering relative hardware capabilities. The fact that all of the current gen systems can boast such a game proves that the next gen hardware will probably produce games that are equally fantastic looking as the quoted examples, but in HD and with (no doubt) even more wonderous use of the available tech. Underpowered hardware does not, and has not been the birthing pool for clever use of graphics. If anything, the more grunt available in the 360 and PS3 will inspire even more incredible departures from the graphical norm (anyway isn't Okami supposed to be (visuals aside) a bit cack?)

    The relatively poor hardware specs of the Rev will undoubtedly limit what it can do, rather than somehow provide a trigger to set developers free of some foggy notion of technology slavery. For every PDZ and it's over indulgent shaders and filters, there's a Ghost Recon or a PGR3 to prove that graphics can matter in a game beyond pure eyecandy. It's not wrong to think that horsepower in a console matters. Better quality graphics can breed better quality games - just look at the leap the popular Nintendo franchises made between the SNES and the N64.

    I'm a self confessed Nintendo heretic. The Cube has forever tarnished my view of what they do, and how it's done. Nintendo get so many things right, but in the home console market they have recently managed to get an equal number of things catastrophically wrong. Thus with the Rev they need to prove that the lesson learnt with the DS success story are applied, and the mistakes with the GC and N64 are not repeated.
     
  4. atanum141

    atanum141 I fapped to your post!

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    A very good point K, I generally have the same feeling. If a game is any good and makes you wanna play it again and again then the visuals wont come into question as thats just a part of the game its representing.Like Goldeneye, compared to todays FPS it dosent stand a chance yet without its crappy looks it looses some of it's appeal also the whole gameplay aspect of it,and yet if i did have a N64 with me now i would deffo go and play it. Also Even the basis of saying that the Rev wont be as powerfull as the other 2 consoles is true as allways NINtendo allways said its not bout the powah! but the game's. I would have to agree, as most of the more interesting games would deffo come out for this machine....just imagine about 10 lads standing at those Rev consoles in a HMV in central london twatting eachother in the face as the Rev has those movement controllers...how much of a laugh does that sound?....I for one shall be investing.
     
  5. RotoSequence

    RotoSequence Lazy Lurker

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    The N64's weakness was the use of cartridges. What was your problem with the gamecube, besides a lack of online play and not enough game developers getting onboard?

    The graphics are plenty powerful to create an in depth, engaging gaming experience, and its still an old console.

    I cant make comments about Xbox 360 games because I havent done anything more than play COD2 (which isnt really THAT great IMO). The Cube was an excellent console IMO; it just didnt have enough people on board. Revolution should still be significantly more powerful, and leave enough room to create a great gaming experience. Nintendo isnt about nitty gritty 1024x1024 textures on pencil sharpeners graphics - theyre about having fun. Believe it or not, X1800/1900 based graphics arent a necessity for that.
     
  6. Veles

    Veles DUR HUR

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    Ah yes Okami thats the one, I remember it now, sounds like Wizball back on the C64 but with cool graphics.
     
  7. K

    K 528491

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    You raise some interesting points Mike.

    I don't imagine that every game released on the Revolution will boast an incredible aesthetic, purely because it needs to. I just don't hold much faith in future titles for the X360 and the PS3 even considering the aesthetics if the game is in any way shape or form about 'something real'. Games like PGR3 and Ghost Recon are getting it right. It's not overly ambitious and creates a completely immersive experience. However, at present time, the fanbase of these next-gen consoles are generally after the most photo-realistic graphics going because it's sort-of capable of it. I can only imagine what someone will come up with in a few years time when this mind-set is eradicated. But take for example a game like Oblivion. Am I the only one who thinks this game has completely dull and soul-less graphics?

    I'm not so sure I agree with you about the hardware limiting what developers do on the Revolution. I do feel that anyone developing for this console is going to be a lot more playful and experimental with their aesthetics from the get go because of it's extremely similar architecture to the Gamecube and the sheer nature of the machine. Although I see this as something exclusive to this console. But we'll just agree to disagree.

    Just to clear something up, I have no problem with photo-realism and such in games! I just feel that it's something that could create a really stagnant array of clone games if the launch games of the 360 are anything to go by. I really don't want another Auto Modellista or XIII, but where have all the pretty colours gone?
     
  8. K

    K 528491

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  9. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    That's true. I still thouroghly enjoy RE2 and that was PS1. I just dont want graphics technology evolving at such a rate that the Rev, despite being this gen, looks retro in comparison. I want it to have everything because some games devs are all about the sexy looking.
    And the fact that because the games "look" retro, yet, cost £40 and never go down in price (as is, NGC), it might be psychologically damaging about paying "more" for something "inferior" despite the fact it's a great game. Then less people buy it, more devs pull out and things go pear shaped.

    Okami: THAT's SOOO COOOL. When can I buy it for NGC?? But that, THAT is artistically fantastic and draws me in far more than WW has ever appealed to me on a purely aesthetic level. But that's my personal preferance.

    EDIT: I agree with mook in a way: outside of Ninty devs there wasnt enough people developing for it. RE4 was awesome because it was fantastic on the NGC but it's about the only game like that for it that I like.

    EDIT2: WHY oh WHY cant we have english subs and jap voices?? Why does it have to be completely english or completely jap?? Just sub it, and release it, it'll sound better and I can still READ. Or, atl least give the option of turning off ****** english audio and voices.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 30 Mar 2006
  10. Veles

    Veles DUR HUR

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    From the youtube video Okami seems to be a PS2 release only I think.

    I absolutely agree with you there about jap audio and eng subs, I can't stand american dubs from japaneese cartoons and games, one of the reasons I havn't bothered to complete FFX is the horrible voice overs, most of the minor cast were ok but Yuna and Tidus were awful IMO.

    I loved the fact that in Shogun: TW and Ninja Gaiden you had the option to turn the audio to japaneese. I hated Akira becasue of the american dub made everyone over 30 sound like popeye and everyone under 30 like a pre-pubecent child. When I watched the jap audio/end sug version I loved it.
     
  11. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    Ah you're ****ing shitting me?? PS2???

    FFS what a crock of crap.

    I just try to never, ever watch anything in English audio unless I know it's a good dub. But that's rare at best.
     
  12. K

    K 528491

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    Surprised me initially too. Considering that Viewtiful Joe was a GameCube exclusive for ages. Shame. It'd suit the console perfectly.
     
  13. Veles

    Veles DUR HUR

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    Thats the thing I like about the PS and Xbox brands, they have the ability to play both high realism games and the quirky games, whereas the N64, GC and Revolution have always been more limited in respect to high realism games.

    Although nintendo consoles tend to have more quirky games released in the western world compared to sony (and especially xbox), it doens't stop the fact these games could be released on the PS2/3. For instance we now have games like ICO, Shadow of Colossus, Katamari, Guitar Hero, Parapper the Rapper, REZ, Eye Toy Play, etc. on the playstation series of consoles, but we also get to play more games like MSG that have more realism orientated graphic style.

    To me though, consoles are all about those quirky games, the only reason for me to buy a 360 ATM is because of the Live Arcade, I much prefer playing the realism style games on my PC, where I can get the best graphical quality and have the best control layout, consoles to me have really been more of a party game than a hardcore gaming system recently. Theres nothing like having your mates round to play Halo 1/2 untill 4am, playing Eye Toy while drinking slighty too much or tournaments on SSBM.

    The only realistic style games I play on consoles are ones where I can't get it on the PC (or ones I bought before I moved from my shocking 400MHz AMD K6-II).

    I need to play some console games now, damn this crappy dorm room and lardy-da TV licenceing (incidentally, any way I can get a huge CRT TV to run off batteries incase TV licencing people come round?)
     
  14. K

    K 528491

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    Hate to break it to you matey but you do not need a TV licence if you aren't using your set to watch TV broadcasts. If you're just using it for games and DVDs etc, you're well within your rights to use one sans-licence.

    http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/gethelp/faqs.jsp#link1

    I used mine without a licence for ages as I didn't have an aerial. Of course, they decided to get in touch about 3 months after I installed an aerial. I'm all covered now though ;)
     
  15. mookboy

    mookboy BRAAAAAAP

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    Yeah but as many games are proving, a realistic rather than overly stylised graphic approach can still have a unique 'look'. Ghost Recon is one example, but stuff like the Gears Of War game uses a high poly, uber next gen graphics engine but still firmly sticks to an aesthetic approach that is instantly recognisable. And in regards Oblivion, it does have an art direction that is most definitely suited to a westerner, but it is no less attractive to play imho. Seeing it in motion makes a big difference, no matter how you view it in still form.

    In regards the whole realism vs style arguement, I still don't see it being a feature of the Rev. Nintendo have shown with the Cube a regression (bar Zelda) rather than an evolution of their own in house design direction. From the majority of their big titles, the extra power of the GC has been put to use in fleshing out and smoothing the rough edges of the 3D titles on the N64 - Mario didn't become more cartoony, with a more traditional artistic style... they bunged on a load of fancy lighting and made him look even less cool in Mario Sunshine, refining and thus losing the traditional Mario visual personality that still existed with Mario 64. That seems to be something Nintendo are constantly striving towards.

    Zelda went from 2D, to 3D on the N64 with again a more realistic look. The Wind Waker direction won plaudits but turned off casual and teenage western male gamers in droves, so we're now back to a fancy filtered and high polygon version for the next sequel. Metroid also has been dragged into the 3D FPS realm, an attempt by Nintendo (if ever I saw one) to score points with Western shump fans.

    The connection between the N64 and the Cube was that it featured hardware that suited Nintendo and turned off the majority of developers. Devs wanted more disc space, so Nintendo stuck with cartridges for the N64 - fine for the stuff they wanted to do but the games that guaranteed appeal to the more fickle, young, male, teenage audience just couldn't be made. A similar problem occurred with the GC, however Nintendo compounded things by making a console that looked very much like a childs toy (not a mistake they are willing to repeat with the Rev). Consoles sell based on more than critically acclaimed and lauded masterpieces - they thrive on the middle of the road, mass appeal titles that ensure little Jimmy gets on for Christmas and the companies make a killing from game sales. Denying the ability for your customers to play (for instance) a hawt, photo realistic racing sim because your console can't 'do it' seems a bit mental to me, it's blocking off avenues that might otherwise sell units and thus allow the weird, quirky titles the time and air to develop and be released.

    Time will tell I suppose. At the end of the day they made a similar gamble with the DS and put interface and gameplay ahead of graphical wizardry - a gamble that has paid off this time out.
     
  16. Veles

    Veles DUR HUR

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    Yeah I know but if I get a TV I know I'm gonna break and watch it when I'm bored, but ah well, I'm moving out soon, just need the mortgage to go through and I have myself a house with 4 other people to split the TV licence costs (and unlimited, unfirewalled tinterweb access, w00t!!)
     
  17. K

    K 528491

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    Hey! I already said that about Ghost Recon. It has a brilliant look. Probably down to things like the HUD and believable futuristic stylings. It wasn't until I saw Oblivion in motion that I was really put off by the visuals. I'm sure it's extremely comprehensive and fun etc... But it looks too cold for my liking. I'd take WoW's look over it any day. But yes, it suits the market, of course.

    Can you not see it being a feature because of the other consoles? You need to look forward, not back. I imagine they'd take on the kind of criticisms you're talking about here. At least, I hope they would.

    I can't argue any of this, just reluctantly agree with you. I fear that in ten years time TP is going to look far more dated than WW. Try playing OoT now and although it plays great, it looks a right mess in general. Metroid's 3D transition is nothing short of brilliant though. I wouldn't say it was done purely for attracting a different audience, as the original Metroid games were hardly cutesy platformers. In fact, they're exactly the same... Except 3D.

    [/quote]

    Indeed, very well put. Like I said before, I think this is the biggest concern with the Revolution. There just aren't going to be the run-of-the-mill mainstream titles on this platform if the machine is not some kind of stellar success with it's initial titles. If it is a massive success on it's own unique merits then developers may bend over backwards to get their more traditional games on it. Only time will tell if this is going to be the case, but my gut reaction is a whopping fat 'no'.

    I was really surprised that the Revolution wasn't promoting a 'normal' controller bundled with the machine so it could host such games naturally. It seems like a ridiculously bold move to make.
     
  18. mookboy

    mookboy BRAAAAAAP

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    Not because of the other consoles, but because it's not been a unique feature of previous Nintendo consoles. In fact out of the current 3 existing current gen machines, the PS2 is the one that has been the platform for devs to explore these interesting new graphical arenas... yet it's the console that has the greatest volume of the MOR titles.

    On a side note, I hope I don't curse matters by saying how great it is to engage in an intelligent discussion for once.
     
  19. K

    K 528491

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    My reasoning behind it is generally based on most of the best DS titles and how they make use of the unique interface. They all focus on how best to apply a tactile interface and then integrating a suitable aesthetic that pleases that interface. I imagine (well, hope) this is how Nintendo are to go about developing their new games. Considering the console itself seems built around the interface entirely (which itself is so stupidly blatant it seems strange that a console hasn't done this in the past, except perhaps the N64... sort of) I would hope that Nintendo provides the suitable aesthetics, which are unlikely to be like much we've seen before. New interface, new aesthetics? I certainly hope so :)

    Just to stir things up a bit more, look at the developers behind some of the most visually astute games on the PlayStation. They're mainly smaller teams of mainstream giants. That's quite interesting. Would Katamari Damacy be the same if it wasn't released by Namco but by some unheard of developer?

    Post Script: omg playstation suxorz lol pwned

    etc ;)
     
  20. mikeuk2004

    mikeuk2004 What you Looking at Fool!

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    Im afraid you’re wrong there. If you have any equipment that is capable of receiving and decoding TV signals then you have to have a TV licence. As every TV has a modulator inside them to receive TV signals and decode them. You cant get away with not having a TV licence.

    The only way to get away without a TV licence is if you buy a flat panel/plasma/lcd TV display that does not have a modulation board in it. Or if your modulator board can be removed and disposed of. With no modulator you can still play games consoles and DVD players on your LCD/Plasma TV via S-Vid/Scart etc and not have to buy a TV licence.

    If you tell them you only play games on your TV, then when they come round to do there inspection. They are looking to see if your TV has a modulator and that you can receive TV signals.

    This includes Digital Box’s TV card in your PC. Hand held TV’s. All these require a TV licence.
     
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