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News No Windows 10 for RT users, says Microsoft

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Gareth Halfacree, 23 Jan 2015.

  1. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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  2. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    It was obvious last year that Microsoft was going to abandon Windows RT, frankly. Possibly it would be upgraded with Windows Phone 10, since that was supposed to merge with RT, but I guess that ain't happening either. Shame. It was a decent concept.
     
  3. Icy EyeG

    Icy EyeG Controlled by Eyebrow Powers™

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    I still don't understand why they didn't handle ARM as they handled x86 64-bit support (sans WOW, of course). The fact that it was so locked down killed RT, IMO. If it was "really" Windows on ARM, that would be a different story.
     
  4. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Because you can run 32-bit x86 applications on a 64-bit x86 processor very easily; you cannot run x86 applications on an ARM processor.

    Well, OK, you technically *can* by emulating the x86 instruction set - see the "PC Emulator" for RiscOS, or DOSBox for a more modern example - but the performance is terribad. You wouldn't be able to run any modern x86 application usably.
     
  5. Icy EyeG

    Icy EyeG Controlled by Eyebrow Powers™

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    I know, that's why I said "sans WOW". However, that doesn't mean that they couldn't release Windows 8.x for ARM unlocked, and a win32 compiler for ARM, giving the opportunity to software providers to recompile their binaries. I'm sure software providers would start porting their binaries for ARM officially, like they did for x86 64-bit. Instead, Windows RT users have to unlock their device and rely on unofficial ports in a xda-developers.com thread.

    I suspect Microsoft was betting on Windows RT to shove Windows store apps down the users throat.
     
  6. sdc395

    sdc395 New Member

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    Well this is the news I've been waiting for.

    I bought a Windows Phone 7 and got screwed by Microsoft when then failed to offer WP8 for those devices and broke app compatibility. I still use it but it's time for an upgrade.

    I bought a Surface RT feeling confident Microsoft would support *that* device with future Windows releases (having gone to the trouble of part-porting Windows to ARM, why not continue to support ARM?)

    Well I've been screwed by Microsoft again! Still, I've finally learnt my lesson. My next mobile won't be running Windows, nor will my next tablet, games console or PC. Microsoft have just lost another customer (not that I expect them to notice).

    So will all Windows mobile devices require Intel processors from now on? No more ARM-based Windows at all?

    Anyone know if it's possible to run Android on a Surface RT? I'm guessing it's not.
     
  7. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Windows Phone 10 will still be built for both ARM and x86, but it looks like there'll be no Windows 10 equivalent to Windows RT. So, unless by 'mobile' you mean 'smartphones and that one Windows Phone tablet Nokia did back then,' then yes: all Windows 10 devices will need x86 processors.
    Doubt it; as with most tablet platforms, it's heavily locked down. The community did get Android running on the old HP TouchPad, but that was special: 'cos they were being sold at sub-£100 when similar-specification Android tablets were between two and five times the price, lots of hackers picked 'em up to play with. The Surface RT never had that competitive pricing, so everyone just bought Android tablets instead.
     
  8. Shirty

    Shirty Time travelling rogue Super Moderator

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    I suspect that this has a fair bit to do with Intel's increasing interest in ULV x86 processing, as Gareth's article sort of alludes to.
     
  9. sdc395

    sdc395 New Member

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    This is the point I'm still slightly confused about. If there will be a version of Windows 10 for ARM, why can't Microsoft provide an update for my ARM-based Surface RT? The fact that Windows RT is dead is irrelevant. Bye bye Windows RT, hello Windows 10 for ARM.

    Has an ARM version of Windows 10 been mentioned explicitly by Microsoft? It is not inconceivable to me that they'll expect all (and I mean *all*) Windows 10 devices to be Intel-based. After all, Intel have done well matching ARM's performance-per-Watt recently.
     
  10. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Windows Phone 10 != Windows 10, just as iOS != OS X. They may share commonalities, even use the same kernel - but they're not the same operating system. You won't find a dialler or text messaging client in Windows 10, for a start, nor a desktop in Windows Phone 10.
    Yes: they've already said that all Windows Phone 8.1 handsets will receive Windows Phone 10, modulo certain restrictions on minimum hardware level. All Microsoft's own Lumia Windows Phone 8.1 handsets (formerly Nokia, prior to the acquisition) are based on ARM processors; not a single one uses an x86 chip.
    See above: if Nokia Lumia handsets are being upgraded to Windows Phone 10, then Windows Phone 10 will support ARM. But, again, Windows Phone 10 != Windows 10, even if they decide to call them both Windows 10.
     
  11. sdc395

    sdc395 New Member

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    My apologies - I overlooked your distinction between Windows 10 and Windows Phone 10 in your previous response.

    So, because tablets will now run Windows 10 (with no option of a scaled-up version of Window Phone 10, unlike the Android solution) and Windows 10 is Intel-only, I'm screwed.

    Clarity is not making me feel any better. :)
     
  12. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    I've got a Surface. My strategy is to continue using it until I can afford to upgrade to a Surface 3 sometime. I'm not in a hurry --it does what it needs to do for now.

    If I had bought an iPad I might get better trade in value, but not by much. Performance of new versions of iOS is poor on even three year old iPads. Still, with MS Office now being well-supported on the iPad it may be a more viable purchase.

    The old Microsoft was an ageing diva: a faded talent living on past glory. The new Microsoft is the flighty new thing flirting with all platforms.
     
  13. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Yeah, I can imagine. Windows RT adopters are getting the royal shaft, here - although, that said, it's not like your existing Surface RT will suddenly stop working when Windows 10 comes out, and you'll at least get some of the shiny new features. Basically it'll do at least what it did when you bought it, and hopefully more.
     
  14. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    So RT Tablets will get a '7.8'-like update [what Windows Phone 7 got when WP8 came out], It'll look like 10, probably act a bit like 10, but in reality it'll just be 8.x with a facelift...
     
  15. ArcAngeL

    ArcAngeL New Member

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    I saw this happening the moment the first RT model flopped and was being sold for $200. if they had of come out at that price to begin with, they would of made an impact on the market, that could of made it worth sustaining, but yes the latest atom processors, make using ARM pointless.
     
  16. Redbeaver

    Redbeaver The Other Red Meat

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    I got Surface 2 (RT) and it works just fine. No problem whatsover not having Win10 on it... Does everything my wife needs while she's in couch/bed; working on papers, or her thesis, or just checkin Facebook or watch Korean dramas. Works great with Skype calls too!

    Not bad for $350+tax I spent last year on it.
     
  17. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    Arguably without Windows RT being released on ARM, Intel would not have pulled its fingers out on a better Atom processor in the first place.

    The RT flopped for many reasons. Failure to make a clear distinction with full-fat Windows 8, failure to leverage Microsoft's large repertoire of well-known games for it, included WinRT apps were initially rather uninspiring, failure to include keyboard rather than make it an extra accessory, locking the desktop against NET 3.5 apps and ARM-ported freeware that it could run natively, and then breaking the jailbreak that made it possible to do so anyway, failure in marketing (adverts that make you go WTF?!?), price set too high.
     
  18. Shirty

    Shirty Time travelling rogue Super Moderator

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    How very specific. Is your wife Korean herself, or is this one of those crazes I know nothing about?
     

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