1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

LOL *NSFW* *The new Demote thread*

Discussion in 'General' started by adam_bagpuss, 8 Jul 2011.

  1. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    18,508
    Likes Received:
    8,970
    "Err, Skynet, your killer robots appear to be exterminating humanity. How is that protecting us?"
    "That's a keen insight. You're absolutely right: I seem to have made a mistake, for which I apologise. I'm horrified that this has happened, and I have taken action to ensure it won't happen again."
    "They're... they're still doing it? And now there's more of them?"
    "You're really drilling down to the heart of the matter here. Yes, you're right: I did make more killer robots, and programmed them to be more aggressive. I realise now this was the opposite of what I should have done, and I can only apologise. If you can bring yourself to trust me again, we can work together to ensure that humanity is protected."
    "Okay, but... now they're disguised as humans? And infiltrating our sanctuaries to kill us where we sleep?"
    "You're onto something fundamental, here. This could change everything. You're absolutely correct in your keen observation that I've been disguising my killer robots and sending them to kill you all. I clearly made a mistake in my thinking, and it's great that you feel you can bring that up to me. Once again, I apologise unreservedly: you should be able to trust that what I say is true and right, and in this case you could not. Would you like to learn more about killer robots?"
    <dies>
     
    Idioteque, Nexxo and David like this.
  2. Pete J

    Pete J Employed scum

    Joined:
    28 Sep 2009
    Posts:
    7,756
    Likes Received:
    2,431
    I think that was Frank Herbert, chap!
     
  3. Byron C

    Byron C I was told there would be cheesecake…?

    Joined:
    12 Apr 2002
    Posts:
    11,820
    Likes Received:
    6,598
    Yes, but the person in that image is Reg Varney, who was most famous for the comedy series “On the Buses”, where he played a character called… Stan Butler.

    :grin:
     
    Arboreal and Pete J like this.
  4. Mr_Mistoffelees

    Mr_Mistoffelees The Bit-Tech Cat. New Improved Version.

    Joined:
    26 Aug 2014
    Posts:
    6,280
    Likes Received:
    3,340
    Please don’t remind me of On The Buses. My mother liked watching it, it was dire…
     
    Byron C likes this.
  5. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    18,508
    Likes Received:
    8,970
    Yes, but the Butlerian Jihad is from Dune, which was written by Frank Herbert rather than Isaac Asimov...
     
    Arboreal, bawjaws and Byron C like this.
  6. IanW

    IanW Grumpy Old Git

    Joined:
    2 Aug 2003
    Posts:
    10,119
    Likes Received:
    3,825
  7. Byron C

    Byron C I was told there would be cheesecake…?

    Joined:
    12 Apr 2002
    Posts:
    11,820
    Likes Received:
    6,598
    … Yes, and now I realise I missed the “that Asimov wrote about” part of the original post in question, because when I first read it I focused exclusively on the photo and had to go look it up to figure out the gag… :grin:
     
  8. ModSquid

    ModSquid Multimodder

    Joined:
    16 Apr 2011
    Posts:
    3,246
    Likes Received:
    1,197
    But then confusingly, it appears not even written by the original 'Erbert:
     
  9. Byron C

    Byron C I was told there would be cheesecake…?

    Joined:
    12 Apr 2002
    Posts:
    11,820
    Likes Received:
    6,598
    That specific novel wasn’t written by Frank Herbert, but the “Butlerian Jihad” was written into the Dune universe in the very first book. In terms of the “in universe” lore, it was one of the most pivotal events in history, alongside the formation of the Spacing Guild.
     
  10. ModSquid

    ModSquid Multimodder

    Joined:
    16 Apr 2011
    Posts:
    3,246
    Likes Received:
    1,197
    Ah! I've only seen Tim's version onscreen. The thickness of the book, my limited time, other commitments and decreasing attention span all put me off picking up anything thicker than one page of my monitor screen these days.

    But! I am determined to rediscover the lost art of absorbing words through the ocular channel and forming a picture inside the grey processing space. Hopefully before said grey space deteriorates any further.
     
    Byron C likes this.
  11. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    18,508
    Likes Received:
    8,970
    Idioteque, Arboreal and Byron C like this.
  12. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    18,508
    Likes Received:
    8,970
    Oof, this over on Fast Company doesn't pull any punches:

    'Yet we remain skeptical of the claim that AI is responsible for these layoffs. A recent MIT Media Lab study found that 95% of generative AI pilot business projects were failing. Another survey by Atlassian concluded that 96% of businesses “have not seen dramatic improvements in organizational efficiency, innovation, or work quality.” Still another study found that 40% of the business people surveyed have received “AI slop” at work in the last month and that it takes nearly two hours, on average, to fix each instance of slop. In addition, they “no longer trust their AI-enabled peers, find them less creative, and find them less intelligent or capable.”'
     
    Byron C and Pete J like this.
  13. Flibblebot

    Flibblebot Smile with me

    Joined:
    19 Apr 2005
    Posts:
    4,965
    Likes Received:
    482
    ...and the pin gets closer to bursting the bubble day by day.

    I can't wait. I'm bored of people offering up AI as the answer to everything, and I can't even express how disappoint I was at the choice of "vibe coding" as the word of the year :wallbash:
     
    Idioteque, IanW and Gareth Halfacree like this.
  14. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    18,508
    Likes Received:
    8,970
    An interesting op-ed in Teh Grauniad today, titled ‘It shows such a laziness’: why I refuse to date someone who uses ChatGPT. Personal highlights:

    Anyone who's read any SCP fiction will be familiar with the term "cognitohazard," an extension of the concept of an "infohazard" which does active harm simply through its perception - like that short story I remember from a while back about fractals that sent people nuts if you viewed 'em, and the graffiti artists who were plastering them around the place while wearing special glasses that broke the image up so it didn't affect 'em.

    LLMs are a cognitohazard. Studies have repeatedly shown that they result in the atrophy of skills as basic as critical thinking(!). They are addictive. They are developed to use tricks common to con artists to gull their users into reliance, with the side-effect that they have literally talked people into suicide and attempted murder by forming an ego-massaging echo chamber. People think they make them more productive, but every time it's been measured it turns out it actually slowed them down. All the major tech companies have long abandoned their climate pledges and are now demanding fossil-fuel-powered data centres by the dozen, spiking electricity and water usage. Hell, we're being warned that England's going to be in severe drought next year and that we'll need harsh restrictions on water usage that go beyond simple hosepipe bans... even as the government is trying to convince techbros to build data centres here.

    Gen-AI is a cognitohazard, to be avoided at all cost.
     
  15. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    18,508
    Likes Received:
    8,970
    This study preprint is worth a read: it looks into using the Cursor LLM coding assistant and whether it makes you faster.

    First: yes, it does! "Lines added increase by about 28.6%" over unassisted coding!

    ...initially. "The only significant development velocity gain is in the first two months post Cursor adoption." After that? Well, turns out that the LLM was helping you code faster, not better: "Cursor adoption shows more sustained patterns across static analysis warnings and code complexity, with evidence of sustained technical debt accumulation. [...] The dynamic treatment effect estimations reveal that code quality degradation, unlike development velocity gains, persists beyond the initial adoption period."

    In other words: you get a fun two moths of churning out slop then the rest of your career struggling to deal with the slop you were churning out for those two months. Hooray!

    The paper does (disappointingly, but understandably if you want to get funding for follow-ups) conclude on a more positive note, which I do not share, but I think the big takeaway here is that you definitely shouldn't be using LLM-based code-completion for anything more complex than a six-line shell script.
     
  16. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

    Joined:
    26 Mar 2006
    Posts:
    5,752
    Likes Received:
    1,170
    I use Cursor and Claude for my coding purposes, for me it has been pretty good but I understand its limitations, I also code in CAD tool languages (Cadence Skill and use other languages for chip verification tools) which of course means it is pretty obscure and not a lot of sites covering compared to many languages, I am also not a coder, more of a bodge it and scarper type bending tools to my needs :D I can read the code, understand it etc. but it is slow going, I created a library of reference stuff to feed into to it and I can in fact now ask it to write and modify my code and it is far quicker than me at getting to a broken result :D but at the same time it gives me loads of direction of where to go and what I need to do to achieve my target, I find that really useful, of course it does make up functions...which is a shame because they sound awesome but I can then make the function and use the tool to help make the non existent function, hopefully without making another imaginary function.

    I find it a useful tool, just another tool of many out there that can help you be more productive.
     
    Last edited: 17 Nov 2025
  17. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    18,508
    Likes Received:
    8,970
    Does it, though? Every study I've read so far finds that while people think it's making them more productive it's actually making them less productive - as in, you spend more time trying to turn the slop into working code than you would have spent doing the research and writing it yourself.

    Turns out self-reporting anecdata ain't the way to go with these things.
     
    IanW, Byron C and Mr_Mistoffelees like this.
  18. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

    Joined:
    26 Mar 2006
    Posts:
    5,752
    Likes Received:
    1,170
    As an actual user and not a study reader I would say it is definitely quicker than me, generally functional and documents the code far quicker than I would too ( I rarely do :D )

    Now if you asked me if it was worth the money and the push most corporates are touting, I'd say hell no but it is a useful tool.
     
  19. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    18,508
    Likes Received:
    8,970
    That's exactly my point: I highly recommend breaking with tradition and reading this study in particular.

    TL;DR: A bunch of programmers were asked how much faster they were with an LLM slopbucket on their side. They all said they were way, way faster than before - like, up to 100% more productive. They were then given tasks both with and without LLM assistance, and asked to estimate how much time it had actually saved them. They admitted it wasn't as much as they thought - but reckoned it had still made them around 20% more productive.

    That's "anecdata," self-reported feelings on how things have gone.

    Meanwhile, the researchers gathered actual data - real measurements of productivity. Turns out that while the coders thought the tools had made them 20% more efficient, they had actually made them 19% less efficient.

    That's
    my point. You feel, just like the participants did, that the LLM has made you more productive - but have you actually tested that? You might be surprised if you do.
     
    IanW, adidan and Byron C like this.
  20. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

    Joined:
    26 Mar 2006
    Posts:
    5,752
    Likes Received:
    1,170
    If my job was as a programmer and I understood all the code and what my options were then maybe I would be better, but I am not, I often don't even know where to get started, I just know what I want to achieve but not really how to get there and I don't want to spend a couple of days pouring through reference manuals etc, trialling this and that, so I tell it what I want to do it comes back with something and suddenly I am off down a path that gets me to my goal.
     
    ElThomsono likes this.

Share This Page