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News Nvidia: Without TWIMTBP, PC gaming would be dead

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Tim S, 3 Oct 2009.

  1. Rkiver

    Rkiver Cybernetic Spine

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    nVidia responsible for PC Gaming. Sure........
     
  2. flibblesan

    flibblesan Destroyer

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    <cough>

    The block has already patched so you can use a primary ATI card and a secondary NVIDIA card for Physx. Works with 190.62 and 191.03 drivers, 32bit and 64bit. XP, Vista, Win7.
    link
     
  3. Veles

    Veles DUR HUR

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    I thought they just put obnoxious logos at the start of every game.
     
  4. Akkatha

    Akkatha *SCREECH!* /run away.

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    I really don't understand the hatred.... I mean why shouldn't Nvidia push the marketing on games with Physx? They offer developer support, ATI dont. Nvidia have physx tech in their cards, ATI dont. Seems to me like all they're doing is pushing the features of their cards to get more sold which tbh is exactly what I'd do in their position, it is a business after all and that's their USP.
     
  5. mi1ez

    mi1ez Active Member

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    So fed up of this kind of news. Go find a hole nvidia. a big hole.
     
  6. infi

    infi Member

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    oh AMD offers developer support for sure as well
    http://developer.amd.com
    they just don't brawl all over the net with it.

    the main problem is that nvidia is pushing proprietary standards, it's a little bit like directX, which basically locks out non-windows gaming just on a hardware level, you just don't notice it with directX because most gamers are using windows anyways, but it's basically the same situation.

    if they'd really want to support the developer and pc gaming in general, they should push open standards so everyone can benefit from the developments and not just the companies themselves.
     
  7. Evildead666

    Evildead666 New Member

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    Godsend.

    Will plop the 8800GTS-320 back in tomorrow ;)
     
  8. gavomatic57

    gavomatic57 New Member

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    The TWIMTBP programme doesn't push any standards, it just enables developers to get the best out of Nvidia hardware and allows Nvidia to release optimised drivers for the big releases - it's all based on the same standards & API's- with the exception of physx - which was offered, but snubbed by ATI, leaving ATI users with a bad taste in their mouth because they can't use Physx and ATI don't have their own physics middleware. Meanwhile, Physx's nearest rival Havok is owned by Intel - AMD's other big rival.

    This proved to be interesting reading, despite being an Inquirer article
    Clicky

    Lets also not forget how much work Nvidia have put into OpenCL, oh and this Clicky
     
  9. Tim S

    Tim S OG

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    AMD doesn't have an OpenCL driver for its graphics cards yet, but we're told by AMD that it is coming (see here: http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2009/08/10/ati-stream-sdk-v2b2-gpu-support/1). Nvidia supports OpenCL as well (and has a driver on their website), but it's not the only thing they support when it comes to general purpose GPU computing.

    An example of Nvidia's commitment to OpenCL is the fact that Nvidia's Neil Trevett is actually the chairman of the OpenCL working group. During the 4770/4890 launch event, one of the presenters effectively said to me that "Nvidia doesn't support OpenCL" which simply isn't true... OpenCL is AMD's only strategy for GPU computing, whereas OpenCL is only a part of Nvidia's GPU computing work.

    They've got compilers for C, C++, Java, Python, Fortran, Matlab (which have extensions for parallelism in CUDA, so while they're not the same, it's a minimal amount of effort to parallelise compared to porting to OpenCL/DirectCompute) as well as the open APIs supported by both companies. The reason for the additional programming languages is that some developers (think about the HPC market here, not the consumer market necessarily) don't want to write their applications in what is effectively a graphics API.
     
  10. thehippoz

    thehippoz New Member

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    well making a racket about things is how they divert buyers.. they have nothing to show against this new dx11 card.. the more they can get out there, the less your thinking about buying the 5850/5870

    and claiming end of the year when your card is a bunch of wires or worse on paper still.. and 3 bill transistors, your expecting to have good yeilds? just gotta remember there's alot of people in this world- for everyone who knows what's up, there's a guy looking at a mac

    I like they are working with devs, but physx is such a gimmick.. this latest batman stunt shows what you can expect from nvidia on the physx front.. the aa issues could be game dev related, but the physx was sticking it to paying nvidia customers- I don't know how to they expect to keep good faith, put out some hardware already you milking coasters :D
     
  11. gavomatic57

    gavomatic57 New Member

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    Well, the 5870 is a good card and it is powerful, but its major selling point is compatibility with games that aren't even out yet and only have tacked-on support anyway. For everyone else a GTX 285 is enough until there is some point in getting a DX11 part. Frankly Dirt 2 isn't enough of a reason to fork out another £300.

    If however, you want OpenCL support, Physx, AA in Batman and knowledge that the TWIMTBP team is working with developers to make sure the games that are out or are coming soon run great on the hardware you have, then it makes sense to wait a bit longer for Nvidia's DX11 part because on paper it sounds like a better option.

    Physx sticking it to Nvidia customers?? Hardly - giving me added value more than anything...besides, those who bought their card recently would have had Batman for free.
     
  12. thehippoz

    thehippoz New Member

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    added value? really.. I'm talking about people who have a ati card and bought nvidia just for physx- they couldn't even use it
     
  13. gavomatic57

    gavomatic57 New Member

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    Why should Nvidia support people whose primary card is an ATI and possibly jumped ship when their old G80 or G92 got a bit old? They are a company who want to make money. They offered Physx to ATI, hell they may have even done most of the porting to ATI's Stream themselves but ATI snubbed them. Nvidia quite rightly could have turned around and said "f*** 'em"...so they did.
     
  14. Star*Dagger

    Star*Dagger New Member

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    People have been crying about the end of PC gaming for well over 15 years.
    PC Gaming will be around until Holodecks, and you might run the first holodecks from your PC.

    Also the comment about "we spend 50 to 100 million dollars..." ANYtime someone quotes you a stat that has a range of 100% error, it is bullsh|t.

    I have enjoyed nvidia cards and ati cards, I buy whichever is the best, but this statement by nvidia is moronic and disingenuous.

    Yours in 5870x2 Plasma,
    Star*Dagger
     
  15. thehippoz

    thehippoz New Member

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    bah.. can't reason like that- you've paid them, it's your card

    and buying a 285 over a 5850 or 5870 is silly.. ati's cards right now are faster and future proof with dx11.. all the points nvidia is trying to make about why not to buy would be valid.. if they had a card that could even compete- what gets me about them is they are all about milking and marketing

    they've had all this time sitting on the 200 series, and they are just now getting the gt300 on paper after ati has a dx11 card on the market? they didn't even bother with dx10.1- and if you remember twimtbp was responsible for getting it taken out of assassins creed

    without competition, nvidia is happy to keep things exactly the same.. they would love for everyone to still be back on the g80 I bet.. I'd be happy to see that 3 billion transistor part.. not some glued together front they made in the back real quick.. I mean were not 10 years old here lol it's just all so weird, you gotta call shens
     
  16. Tim S

    Tim S OG

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    I've heard several numbers from several different people and the number changes depending on who I speak to - it's not just a figure from one person - but nobody would put an actual figure on it officially. The number I've quoted is the range of figures I've been told over the past 12 (or so) months, but the numbers have been getting bigger over time. Late last year, I heard the $50 million figure, at Computex I heard "close to 100 million", this week I heard "60 to 70 million"... The best I've had on official terms is "tens of millions of dollars".

    Who knows... but if it's 50 million or 100 million, it kinda doesn't matter - it's still a hell of a lot of money, which ever end of the scale we're at.
     
  17. gavomatic57

    gavomatic57 New Member

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    You are right, it is faster, but the 285 has been out since January...and it is still fast enough to play ANYTHING available today. Buying the 5870 works if willy-waving is your thing, but for gaming and without any DX11 games to play, it's a bit of a waste to upgrade now with GTX 380 around the corner. Hell, by the time the 380 arrives, there may even be two DX11 games to play - assuming it arrives next year.
     
  18. Tim S

    Tim S OG

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    If I was buying a graphics card today, it would be a 5870. The 285 is redundant...



    The question is a little more difficult if I was buying a graphics card around Christmas because GF100/Fermi is an unknown quantity at the moment. Nvidia says "it'll be faster" than the 5870, but how much faster and at what price point? Those are pretty important questions to answer when it comes to making a buying decision - the 280 was faster than the 4870, but it was almost twice the price at launch and the 4870 was only 15-20 per cent slower (off the top of my head). I know which card I would have bought at that time...
     
  19. Phil Rhodes

    Phil Rhodes Hypernobber

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    Touching assumption of the day: anyone knows what TWIMTBP stands for. I mean, fer chrissake, I had to copy and paste said abbreviation out of the article just to put it in this post.

    And another thing: if they're basing their claim to greatness on the fact that they're stopping PC gaming from declining, or stopping it from becoming a series of poorly-ported console games, they're on extremely shaky ground.
     
  20. theevilelephant

    theevilelephant New Member

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    The Way It's Meant To Be Played

    Its plastered across loads of games...
     
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