I just wanted to address this little bit. Based on your previous comments, I gather that you agree with mvagusta. Given that, I can understand why KayinBlack mistook your comment. Humor - good humor - relies on a proper context. Your comment had no context other than your previous position in the thread, so it's not hard to see why KayinBlack asked for clarification.
What I mean is they tend to commit damage to property rather than person. After all, they're attempting to draw the public eye and elicit sympathy for their cause. Despite being only human, they need to be held to higher standards - Why? Because they are paid and trained to handle these situations. If a cop can't keep his cool in a situation he is trained for then what hope does Joe Public have? What sort of message does that send? The need to be deterred from making a mistake through the full weight of the law they enforce and supposedly embody - Over and above the discipline a normal citizen would receive. Again, they are trained in the law and in handling volatile situations. They should know better. This is what they signed up for. I believe Anthony Bologna got 10 days vacation pay deducted as his disciplinary measure. What do you think a civilian woman would have gotten for pepper spraying a cop for shouting at her? And do you think she would be equally as justified in her action?
The point was to demonstrate that police brutality toward OWS protesters is difficult to justify, let alone refute, when even a member of the armed forces feels the NYPD are being heavy-handed. I don't think the video suggests, and neither do i, that all police officers engage in this type of deplorable behavior, any more than suggesting that all members of the military are above reproach. the marine in this video would clearly be the sort to do what bradley manning did (speak up about the crimes being committed by fellow military). with power comes responsibility, and when that responsibility is shirked, it should be decried.
I think it was pretty clear that I was sarcastically quoting and agreeing with the post you made. Do you know exactly what sort of training these guys receive in handling that amount of people? The message that it sends is that Police are human. Realise that. If a woman pepper sprayed a cop, you'd like to hope that she'd be gripped up, cuffed and taken to the nearest Police station to be dealt with accordingly. If they just ignored her, what kind of message would that send? The man in that video was a moron. Irrelevant of what he has done for 'his country' he is talking out of his ass. MV has already mentioned the irrepairable damage that the US army has done to numerous countries around the world. He wears/wore the uniform, so is at least partly to blame for that.
I think that is the point that VipersGratitude is getting at. Following mvagusta's logic, if a police officer yells at a woman then she may experience temporary hearing loss; therefore, she is justified in using pepper spray to defend herself because the intended effects are also temporary. We argue that the link between a yelling protestor and hearing loss as physical harm is tenuous, and the police officer in question should not have had to resort to using pepper spray on a couple of people whose offense as it stands is nothing more than raised voices.
No I don't have the training schedules for all police services in the world, but I do know they had some, which is more than joe public. I don't know any fat personal trainers, or dentists with bad teeth. I agree, in the context it's not a reasonable amount of force. Except what you're describing didn't happen to the cop - He merely got his paid vacation reduced from 27 to 17 days that year.
Of course not, an officer of the law is to be respected. If a Cop shouts at you, you had better listen to them - if you have a problem, file a complaint. Yes, and with the power of a mob, also comes responsibility. The mobs occupying wall street are behaving irresponsibly, no? Before anyone thinks about telling the cops to be nicer, have a word to the protesters first perhaps. Again you've so conveniently left out huge details, such as the size and behavior of the mob
Seeing as we're on the subject of dentists, I've had some experience with dental work, would you be happy for me to start going at your teeth? The training that Police receive is insufficient to deal with this kind of disorder. And it will only get worse with the cuts in budget. Your example of dentists and PT's is completely pointless and irrelevant. How does that fit into this arguement is any way? Ten days of leave, for me, leaves me at a loss of around £1,600 ($2,558). I'd say that the punishment is perfectly adequate for someone with no previous convictions. I'd also go as far as to say that if it was the other way round, she would get a lesser punishment.
Would you rather someone come round with a baseball bat and beat up on your car, or your parents? Well by that rational at least I'll get let off once I murder you for trolling - I mean, I lived a legal life for years before I finally decided to break it. So two people, both just human, can have the same response to the same stimuli, but in your eyes one is guilty and the other is not? Basically it's ok to break the law if you're being paid to actually enforce the law? The issue isn't about who's nice and who isn't. It's about who overstepped the legal line. Using your logic disregards almost every human rights bill, and the constitution of the USA - You know, that pesky thing called "The Law"? As I saw it - Cop walks over. Pepper Sprays a fenced-in, non-resistant woman, then walks away....So what on earth does the environment have to do with it? He was psychologically impaired by his route over to her? EDIT: Point is if you cant exert the discipline of your profession to yourself, how the hell do you expect to be trusted with exerting it on others? EDIT2: Not Leave - Paid Vacation.
Is it time for this thread to stoop to the uncivilised level of the ows protesters? I'm not sure why anyone would think, that I'd want anyone's property or parent's beaten up with a baseball bat? Or why anyone would accuse me for being a troll, and threaten to murder me? The luxuries of hiding behind a monitor are priceless aren't they? I obviously haven't made myself clear: WILD SCREAMING MOBS SHOULDN'T BE TOLERATED EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO PROTEST PEACEFULLY
Should we really go into the whole 'setting an example' thing? Hundreds of professions have bad eggs in them, the Police are no better or worse than Paramedics, Doctors, Teachers and so on. I know a lot of people in the healthcare profession, of which more than 50% smoke, eat terrible food and are generally in a terrible state of health. Does that mean they should all be sacked? I used to work in a big leisure centre and saw lots of physical trainers who not only were giving bad advice, but were in bad shape themselves. Lifeguards who were useless at swimming. Fireman who just joined the job to wear the t-shirt, and didn't giving two shits about helping people. I could go on for days. Your arguement is pointless. What is the difference between leave and paid vacation? It's just called something different over there. My leave is paid, and if I was to lose ten days of it then that would be a big loss in money.
Hey, if my employer paid for me to go on vacation, I'd be very happy. However they just let me not go in to work for a bunch of days in the year - they LEAVE me alone.
hehe xir.. ok here's the scenario.. the cop is used to riding around eat donuts and making everyone elses life as miserable as his own, going to his house for a couple of hours every day and maybe taking long walks at the zoo- all paid of course maybe forcing his fat ass on a few hookers at night.. now he has the opportunity to do what he's always done to a few protesters.. he's so dumb he doesn't realize the lying animals he abuses daily might have a camera phone.. after all he's about as dumb as a brick (but in his mind a legend) and here we are talking about his ethics like he had any.. sadly it's a very common- what gets me mad is people like my pops (white), has never really had a profiling problem with the police he came to visit me a few years back and it actually hurt to hear my own dad profile me! he said (guess he was trying to put himself in a cops shoes on why they kept pulling me over for bs and trying to escalate things) "when you drive your car, your seat is way too low and you should put your hands at 10 and 2.." my own dad while trying to help, was trying to tell me in his own way that I look like a mexican! xD I've come to the conclusion that most white people just don't get it.. they don't have the same experience so there's not much to debate- just that simple well white hobos know and there might be a few eminem types who've seen it or experienced it first hand.. with cops there is no race barrier on the stupidity.. there's mexican and black cops who are just as bad, noticed around here it tends to be mexican rookies.. that position draws in seedy people think and you'll know right off the bat.. they walk like there's a stick rammed up their ass, and make no sense what so ever what you seen on this video is just one cop.. there was one caught on camera recently where the guy yelled out for god to help him as a group of officers beat him until he died.. hobos don't tell tales I like vipers take on it.. they are held to a higher standard.. unfortunately that's not the way things are.. I don't go around hating police, for good reason.. but I'm not ignorant to the abuse either.. what happened in the video- how you can defend that is really beyond me everytime I call my cousin, I always ask him if he got someone with the wrong end of the nightstick.. he got out, tough job, he's a baliff now.. why the guys who love it got something insane in the brain
i don't wholly disagree with this point, specifically. but just as those wearing the uniform of the u.s. military must take at least some of the responsibility for those they represent (as must all u.s. citizens), so too must the new york police dept. take some responsibility for the behavior of those who represent it. its few "bad apples" as it were, along with those being defended against the "angry mob." and for the record, i've yet to see proof of this out-of-control "mob." i think my work here is done: admittedly, i've been influenced by my next door neighbor, a retired career police officer, iraq war veteran and proud member of iraq vets against the war and occupywallstreet.
Since people have been discussing the use of force on supposedly disrespectful demonstrators, I find it interesting that we didn't see this kind of police presence at Tea Party demonstrations, particularly since many demonstrators threatened to shoot democrats and at least one unhinged individual actually did. Talk about wishful propagandizing.
You quote me, where I was obviously referring to the protesters as displayed within this thread, and then you post this: If you're suggesting that the behaviour of the recent US veteran protesters, remotely compares to the behaviour of the protesters as displayed in the videos within this thread, then I think you are insulting the veterans.
