I think it's important to remember who the real power in America, the financial power houses. Their men occupy the most powerful positions, outside of the President, in the White House. They possess powers, through the Federal Reserve (not really Federal), to control the economy which they do to benefit themselves. I have nothing against capitalism, it can be a great force for motivating a population, however when it is rigged in such a way something has to be done. The only power that the banks truly fear is a informed, motivated and determined populous. This is the one thing they cannot control, although they try through the media and influencing of government policy and the one thing that can stop them from doing as they please. The police don't tend act in this way unless someone is forcing their hand. The sad thing is that those officiers on the ground are acting against those who in the medium to long term are trying to help them. Also on a slightly different point, I think the idea of a legal peaceful protest is a bit of a misnomer to some extent. In the UK you are allowed to protest peacefully if you apply for permission to do so first. That seems a bit ridiculous to me. the idea that you can protest if we say so but keep it down and try not to attract attention, that way we can ignore you.
Also just to add, I really thing that there needs to be a solid understanding of the terms, 'Free Market', 'Democracy', 'Socialism' and 'Freedom' (with explanations of rights and responsibilities that go with that). These are all terms that I have never once heard being used are described correctly in the media or most other places.
What this protest is about is irrelevant. This could be a protest about the size of clown outfits, that is not the issue. This issue is the police tactics being used. If these tactics were use for any protest, in any part of any democratic country, then it would be worthy of comment - and worthy of comment by any one else living in any part of any other democratic country. To say that no-one should comment on this if they do not live in the country in which it occurred would like saying that no-0ne who does not live in Iran could comment on the shooting of Neda Agha-Soltan. Neda Agha-Soltan is of course, the young Iranian woman who was shot and killed by an alleged Government sniper at an Iranian protest. An Iranian protest that she, by the way was not even participating in. I'm sure a number of people outside the UK commented on this, and many other forums, about the riots in a number of English cities earlier this year. They had a right to comment on this, just as 'non-USA' residents have a right to comment on what was happening here. By the way - do you know what this protest was about?
http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/pdf/pepperreport.pdf The above is a link to a ruling relating to a civilian complaint regarding the use of Pepper Spray by the NYPD. It outlines the correct use of pepper spray. It is a .PDF file. It is worthwhile reading. Reading this it makes it clear that the Commander who sprayed the women broke these guidelines. It is no longer an opinion as to whether this Commander was right or wrong to use his pepper spray in that situation, it is fact - he was wrong.
Interesting news - http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/1...-coming-to-protect-protesters-on-wall-street/
I doubt any marine would dare defy any cop's orders, or dare attempt to intervene with any cop's actions.
Why? What do you know about being in the United States Marine core? I don't know anything, so please, enlighten us.
Ah yes a more eloquent version of the veitnam defence: "you weren't there maaan....you weren't there"
AFAIK, a marine wouldn't take action against anyone without specific orders, unless they have sufficient reason to do so, such as if they identify a possible threat upon one of their responsibilities. The most a matine could do against a cop who is dealing with a suspect, without specific orders, is to report what has been found and request permission to engage. I'd also expect that any marine's superiors would advise their troops to stay well away from the protests. The last thing they'd want is for any of their soldiers to appear rebelious or insubordinate. IMO that is.
The Marine(s) involved here appear not to share your point of view, MV. They seem to intend to go there in full dress uniform to show the cops (and the mainstream media that has so diligently worked to keep this out of the public eye) that combat veterans are firmly on the side of the protesters and that political and corporate accountability is just as important to them as killing people for their country when ordered to do so.
Those statements aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, most videos of the protesters seem to show them complying with the cops' requests. The overwhelming message that comes across is that the protestors are not battling the police - they are not the enemy - but the police are simply getting a lot of people arrested, inconveniencing them.
I'd lmao if that happened The entire US army and the entire US police force are all employed by the US government, and any attack on wall st, is actually a significant attack on the US government. The US army is who the police would call on for support, if they needed help. I'm sure Obama would prefer it none of his army forces, ever took any action against any of his police force, or even any of his citizens. I can't imagine Obama ever wanting any of his army involved in any protest, and most definitely not in uniform Soldiers and Police are both paid to comply to the government's wishes /job description. Any US soldier that decides to make his own rules, and rebel against any police officer, who is simply following orders, would be lucky to not receive a court martial IMO. It would be a massive risk for any soldier, even out of uniform to stand up to any cop, because it wouldn't be difficult for the US government to identify any of it's soldiers. The same applies to cops btw, ever seen a cop protesting against a war?
MV, I'm not sure you read anything in the link I posted. They're not on active duty. They're no longer tied to the military. They are Marines who've seen combat (ie: "fought for their country") and don't like the way politicians that run their country are in the pockets of corporate fat cats who've (in their eyes) arse-raped the country and then proceeded to crap all over it. Direct quote: It's unfortunate that so many people see it this way. Why is Wall St = US Govt? Yes, I'm sure he would like the deficit to magically disappear too but with veterans having little to show for their service he'd be damned lucky if only 16 of them showed up at OWS tomorrow. Certainly. Not when they're no longer contractually obliged to (as this group of Marines headed to Manhattan appear to be). Again, read the link. They're not on active duty. They're not risking anything (except arrest and/or mace-face) by being there. Also, if the cops are simply following orders - who is giving them? Who told Anthony Bologna that he needed to go over and pepper spray a bunch of protesters and then walk away (in violation of the guidelines in the pdf file posted above)? Honestly, no. Smedley Butler, one of the most decorated Marines in the Corps' history probably would have agreed with the OWS protesters. Also, hey there!
I don't know exactly who is giving the orders, but we can call them their superiors. Anthony Bologna would not have sprayed anyone unless he knew he could do so legally/had permission. The veterans can get up to mischief if they choose to, it wouldn't be the first time cops arrest protesting veterans: Notice how this veteran is intelligent enough to not resist arrest in the slightest.
Its not about arresting them. Its about creditable support. This isn't a bunch of hippies who are going to show support. If a marine does get arrested or witnesses an arrest that should not have happened and goes to the media. America is going to side with a veteran Marine over NYPD any day of the week. And that's what the protestors want, for all of America to stand up united and join in the protest. If anything, arresting one of them would be one of the worst things an NYPD officer could do.
You think? What would America say if Iraq veterans were injured by police, one with a broken cheekbone after being trampled by police mounted on horseback, merely for attempting to enter into a formal debate, during an election campaign? http://www.military-veterans-for-ju...tion=com_content&view=article&id=14&Itemid=22 This is the sort of thing that has happened if a veteran doesn't get out of the police's way fast enough.
Being a part of the thin blue line is a thankless job, you will always be rubbing someone up the wrong way or even enforcing laws and policies that you don't agree with. I think the force used is a bit extreme however, i don't think the police where in danger at any point.
"Occupy Wall Street is leaderless resistance movement with people of many colors, genders and political persuasions. The one thing we all have in common is that We Are The 99% that will no longer tolerate the greed and corruption of the 1%. We are using the revolutionary Arab Spring tactic to achieve our ends and encourage the use of nonviolence to maximize the safety of all participants." http://occupywallst.org/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/
I'd love to see how all of you would handle the situation if you were put into one of the Officers shoes.
from what I can tell, most of the officers seem to be handling themselves well. however it appears that some have decided to engage in inflamatory behavior and may well be breaking the law themselves.
