Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Gareth Halfacree, 18 Jul 2014.
Jim Killock pledges a battle.
Who thinks it's just coincidence that the DRIP act was passed in such a rushed manner ?
Granted the European Court of Justice only ruled that blanket data retention was in breach of the European Convention of Human Rights only 3 months ago, but the ECJ advocate general gave his opinion on what the ruling would be 8 months ago, then before that the UK knew this law was going to be challenged in the ECJ 2 years ago.
Yet for some reason, on the same day as a cabinet reshuffle, with one week before the summer recess, there is a life-saving emergency that must be dealt with.
Yeah good luck with that.
No I don't see a coincidence here, just more crap rushed through when hardly anyone's around to speak out. It would seem that those governing us are determined to have complete control over our internet because as soon we get a victory shooting down one piece of cr@p legislation, another is waiting to take it's place.
Well the saying goes "knowledge is power", and the internet has knowledge in spades. As individuals we probably have more 'power' than we have ever had before. I can see how governments might feel threatened by that.
Not that I am excusing them; far from it.
So it's incompetence then ?
After all the challenge to the original EU data retention law has been known about for over 2 years.
If it was, as the home secretary put it that, "we are facing a situation where potentially we could see the loss of capabilities that lead to dangerous criminals, paedophiles and terrorists being apprehended and brought to justice"
If that's the case you would think the politicians would work through the summer recess, I'm all for catching dangerous criminals, paedophiles and terrorists, but when it comes at the cost of our privacy and liberty i do question if it's a proportional response, do the ends justify the means ?
I think Dave is suggesting that it's deliberate.
They think it's OK to watch us in case they stumble across paedophiles and certain other criminals, yet they exclude themselves from the same surveillance. From what i keep seeing in the news, a greater percentage of them deserve to be prosecuted for serious crimes than is the case among the general public.
I have nothing to hide, but I don't want anyone watching my every move.
I would join ORG if i could afford to. Unfortunately I regularly have campaign groups requesting a share of my disability benefits. Can't donate to every cause I believe in, but it's great that most still let my voice count.
Surely not, that would imply that our politicians deliberately deceived parliament and the general public to allow them the ability to not only see who is talking to who, but also compelling all communications providers to install methods for the intelligence services to be able to intercept those communications.
Say it isn't so.
Say they are not using our TAX pounds to reimburse the communications providers.
Say we haven't become hostile to companies wanting to do business with us.
I'm sorry sir... but democracy is dead. It was quick. It didn't suffer.
Corky, wasn't it Killock who created a Kickstarter campaign to publicise how bad internet filters were in the UK? Whatever happened to that? ... and the money ... ?
The last update was a couple of weeks ago. Apparently the film has been made and they said it would be released in a couple of weeks, so we should get to see it soon (i hope)
It's better to try than not to do anything at all surely? The greatest problem with all this is the general public apathy and that's what the powers that be are relying on when pushing through new laws like DRIP.
I'm not sure if it is apathy, would/does the general public actually know that this law allows the government to monitor who is talking to who, do they understand that all communications providers now have to provide a means for the government to intercept and read the contents of all their communications.
Has the general public actually been hood winked into believing the only way to catch dangerous criminals, paedophiles and terrorists is to use a net so wide that it covers every person in the UK, whether guilty or not ?
I think that the general public is too busy worrying about making ends meet to care. 21% of the population lives in poverty --and just over half of those are working households. Average incomes have dropped by 8% since 2008 but house prices have gone up by18% in the same period.
At the same time University fees have quadrupled, benefits are going down, pension schemes are dropping and long-term employment is a distant dream. Oh, and unions are next in the crosshairs, meaning that labour laws are under threat.
This is a good time to sneak all sorts of other threats to our civil rights in under the radar.
So it's apathy then, the cause of the apathy maybe open for debate but what you describe is apathy.
EDIT: Just to add: I don't agree that it's apathy, i think if the general public knew that in 2012 there were half a million requests to access the communication data on devices (who spoke to who, when, where) they would be concerned that there are so many.
Or would the general public accept that there are half a million dangerous criminals, paedophiles and terrorists that the authorities need to get the communication data from, only devices are recorded, as apparently they don't know how many devices are being used by one person.
I wouldn't call it apathy. That implies people no longer care, or have become indifferent. Most people I know just don't believe "their" government will listen to them. They have lost trust in the system. I know a lot of active campaigners against many issues, including many of the inhuman changes this current unelected government brought in. I also know a lot of others who are angry about the way the system is being changed and hence how they are being treated. They have lost interest, they just no longer believe the elite ruling classes care. The people being pushed into debt and/or poverty generally care about it. The people doing the pushing are the people that don't care, except where it affects their own personal wealth.
This government have a lot to answer for. One of their recent promises is that if they are reelected next year, they will bring us out of the ECHR and withdraw the HRA. Do you want to live in a country where you no longer have rights? Do you believe your vote will make a difference? Many people don't believe that. Many have probably not even heard about many of the recent changes and/or promises. They won't do anything about it if they know nothing about it.
No, it's priorities. Think Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Struggling to meet the rent/mortgage, having mouths to feed with not quite enough money and the constant threat of job insecurity are concrete problems that affect your life in a very real manner on a day to day basis. As for dangerous criminals, they're the ones terrorising the shitty estate you have to live on, recruiting your kids into gangs, pushing drugs on them and trying to mug you and break into your house to steal what little stuff you have.
Whether the government can or will track your mobile or online communications feels like a more abstract and remote problem by comparison. You and I know it's a big deal, but we're not preoccupied with the possibility of eviction, repossession of goods, redundancy or not being able to feed the kids by the end of the month. We're not living amongst gangs on crappy sink estates.
It's all relative. You can condemn the poor and uninformed for being apathetic, but they have bigger worries on their mind. A starving man does not worry about his civil rights; he worries about where his next meal comes from.
Nexxo beat me to what i was going to say... and probably said it better than i would have...
Yea, i have to admit that when politicians and governments talk about taking us out of the ECHR & HRA it does worry me, especially in light of the Snowden revelations and the constant erosion of our civil liberties.
It wouldn't be so bad if they also talked about what they would replace it with, but so far they seem happy to talk about going after the bad guys without a thought of how this effects normal peoples lives, it's like any means justifies the end.
As for votes not counting, i tend to agree, especially when all three main parties are so similar, or all support the same thing, like Internet filters, RIPA, data retention, etc, etc.
So that would be Apathy: lack of interest in or concern for things that others find moving or exciting
Like i said the reason for it are open to debate, such as they have more important things to worry about, but for one reason or another people have things that they are more interested in, or are more concerned with, like putting food on the plate.
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