Discussion in 'Software' started by Sc0rian, 13 May 2008.
Whoooo flame wars!!!! LOL sorry everyone. I better delete that post
Exactly, you buy a hammer for your needs. If you will buy a hammer to nail 1 thing on a wall, and never use a hammer again, then yea any hammer will do. However if you hammer a lot, than yes you want a hammer that is stronger, made of superior quality, balanced in weight, etc...
The point I was making is that you don't by a hammer because it looks nice. If I sold you a hammer with a glossy white finish all over, will you buy it? JUST because it has a white glossy finish all over it. I don't think so.
Notice that in my post I did not say which OS is best.
I love this thread.
I'm not even going to talk about the design of the computer, because that's entirely subjective.
-Peripherals: Unlike apple, logitech puts function BEFORE form. The peripherals they make are actually usable. They are designed to be used first, and looked at second. Well designed, durable, and cheap; pick two. You can't have your cake and eat it too, mainly because the cake is a lie.
-OS Design: Sorry, but Mac OS X's interface is just awful compared to windows. Windows has a much better interface. With OS X, sure you focus on the applications, but you never really know which ones are open. It's based more on the application than the window, which is the wrong way to do things. Having applications running with no windows is still possible, which is just a usability nightmare.
I also hate the dock to no end. I want a dock to tell me what's running, not what applications are running, and a tiny little thing showing me one window of a program. It gets even worse when you have multiple windows open (say, 6 finder windows). You shouldn't have to mouseover just to see which window is which.
Then, there's expose. It's pretty good, except it only hows you application windows that are not minimized. Want to see that? Too bad.
On the other hand, Vista's ui is pretty good. Everything is where it should be, but it's not as consistant as I hoped it would be. The taskbar is getting outdated, but it's still more usable than a dock. For the most part, windows keeps to itself, and I'm happy.
Of course, there are still some things to change. Flip 3d for one, certain inconsistancies, not being able to adjust the amount of transparency vs translucency, etc.
I'm also typing this on my powerbook.
*starts up another thread saying his AMD cpu broke in the post*
*starts up another thread saying his Nvidia GFX card broke in the post*
I think it was just bad luck, nothing is perfect so there could have been something that you couldn't control. better luck on the next one!
You really hate Macs, don't you? Every time it comes up, you start trolling. With the same ignorant argument. Have you ever used a Mac? Recently?
Both have their place. I prefer Macs and will not likely switch back any time soon. I use a PC all day long at work, where I have to put up with the same stupid quirks, instabilities, and crashes that I've dealt with for years. In fairness, the software I sell at work may be partially to blame since laptops don't often fare well as servers, but then again I'm typing from my MBP which has a dozen websites running on it and nary a problem. I probably waste an hour a day just waiting for the thing to finish up some random task, restart after some app hard-locked my system, or had explorer.exe explode again. That literally costs my company thousands of dollars. As it is, our software only runs on a Windows server so it really doesn't matter (in this case, the hassle of virtualizing isn't worth it - and I use VMWare Infrastructure Server extensively throughout the day so I know what I'm talking about). Don't blame the specs of the system - aside from the graphics card which is irrelevant on both sides for what I do, my work XP laptop is identical to my Macbook Pro - 4GB RAM, 2.2Ghz C2D, 120GB 540RPM HD. While my MBP certainly has its slowdowns from time to time, I expect it to happen when I'm stitching together a 300MB TIFF or forgot a semicolon and made an infinite loop in my software. Not when I'm composing an email or using SalesForce.
If you're buying a Mac just for the looks of the hardware, then yes, you probably are just wasting money. There are some legitimate needs for that in some businesses, but that's absolutely the exception to the rule. I find the iMac as elegant as anyone else (and on topic - shame about the DOA, but it can happen anywhere; best of luck with the replacement!), but its compactness is half the reason I don't own one.
But in terms of actually getting any work done, Macs win hands-down. Apps just have a better interface. Yes, you'll read that as "pretty", big deal. It actually means that they expose the functionality that you'll use day-to-day and hide away the stuff that you only use infrequently, allowing easier and faster access to the tools you need all the time by not cluttering the interface. Yes, that actually makes you more productive. The number of combined hours I've wasted on Windows searching for app preferences alone justifies the added cost, since it's universally Cmd+, in OS X. I can charge $70+/hr for some of the work I do, so not wasting that time adds up. Quickly.
At the end of the day, use what works best. For gaming, that's Windows, hands-down. For business and productivity, it's OS X. For evangelizing about free software, it's Linux It's a matter of using the right tool for the job. And if the right tool costs more but actually gets the job done right the first time, then you'd be an absolute idiot not to cough up. I could make any number of analogies, but J_J has kindly already used your own example against you. As it is, I just need to put a nail in a wall once in a while so I do have a fairly cheap hammer, but for anything that I'm actually using to generate income, I'm willing to pay the premium. I value my time, as do my clients.
Honestly, I'm not sure why I spend the time. You won't be convinced until you try it and use it for a couple days, much like how I used to have the same nonsense rants against iTunes (search my posts from early on, you'll find them). I should know better than to feed the trolls by now, especially since I'm not out on a mission to convert anyone, nor to justify my own purchases.
As to Sc0rian - again, shame that the system was DOA, but it can happen to anyone. I hope for you the new one arrives soon - let me know how you like it! I'd get one myself, but the single hard drive thing just won't work for me in a desktop (and I'm waiting until WWDC to finally get a Mac Pro, which is really long overdue at this point).
yay! a win/mac flamewar
my only contribution will be to agree with johnny, and say that estwing is truly the king of all hammers.
No, I just hate how lies are being said. If you went and said Microsoft Windows was perfect and all, I would still say the same things pretty much.
Have you use Vista recently? And Windows Server 2008?
Agreed. And that is what I mentioned previously.
That is not normal, and should be looked into. Post your problem(s) on a different post, and solutions will be offered to you by me and others on this forum.
It could possibly that something is not working correctly and could be possible, just maybe, be a manufacture problem somewhere.
A normal laptop is not design to run 247, as you well noted. No mather what OS you would have, similar issues would occur. If it is not a crash, it would be a bug.
Websites? Ooookkkkkeeyyyyy, that reminds me of that Shopping Chanel guy that said something like this on a Dell computer. "You see this computer it will never crash, you can open... look I have about 20 web sites, and look I still surf the net and the computer is fine." lol, that is hardly a problem.
I don't know what you use as web browser but Firefox is a fine web browser. My brother can certify you of Opera web browser with is better then Firefox if you don't care about the extensions and he has over 20-30 tabs open with all different web sites and such, and he is on a Dell XPS 1220M laptop. Your system should not cause stability problems when doing such task, else something is defiantly wrong and you should RMA the computer.
Why don't you use Win95, Enjoy the twice the issues. XP is an old old OS, and had problems since day one. Windows 2000 has been proven to be the most stable OS ever, Vista is showing it now as well, however its too soon, maybe after another 5 years about, such things can be decided on. But Vista is a "so far so good" situation. Moreover Win2000 is more light than XP, so if your computer can't run Vista, why not put Win2k. All software will work as it's pretty much the same OS as XP.
An OS is very very complicated. The interface and windows, etc... is the easy part of the OS (ok, that is lie, the OS sounds is).
Mac OS X is shinny new and takes full advantage of today (supported by Apple) hardware standards, XP is old... it's like an old person complaining about all the new stuff, and says how the old days was better. You know Vista is a new core system, you should try it. Business/Enterprise/Ultimate editions of Vista has gpedit.msc panel, with allows you to easily configure the OS so you can remove or enable stuff you do/don't want. Example you can properly and safelly disable UAC or change it's behavior.
Like was said before, both (or whatever amount) have their places. I use both mac and pc everyday, mac for music recordings (probably because all the best software was written for mac), and windows/ linux for everything else.
fightin on da e-turnet iz coooool
here's the deal. tha mac does everything i want it to do and more satisfactorily, (and prettier) than my windows pc. except play games. literally, since getting my mac i do everything but play games on it. both have their place.
at all you fanboys out there (mac and PC): get your heads out of your fun chutes!
on the aesthetics note, this is going to be very blunt but i think it will get the point across.
if i wanted to have sex then i'd rather have sex with a good looking girl. if i just wanted any old sex, then i guess any old minger would do. in other words, i'd much rather have sex with a mac than a pc. although my modded pc is pretty swish, if a little geeky. gawd...that would be like, having sex with a nerd with braces and thick glasses and zits...going back to making love to my mac now.
^ Making love to your Mac? WTF!
Good reply Goodbytes.
At the end of the day, both OS's have advantages and people will prefer one OS over another. I like using Windows, but I also occasionally use Linux. OSX looks nice and it does have some good features - Expose is one that I wish was part of Windows, but I'm sure if I used it I would find bits that I didn't like.
So I was lying when I claimed that I don't like Vistas design profile? Yeah actually I was. I have to admit I love it. Honest to god: I LOVE VISTA!
That is indeed "normal". Unfortunately.
You keep omitting the fact that MS has to program for eons of different hardware configurations which will undeniably make **** a lot easier to happen.
This is the quintessential argument for buying a mac and not just building a franken-mac.
Apple has a limited hardware base that needs consideration which enables better optimization. End of story.
All in all I agree with Firehed that there's no need to feed the troll. But I do believe that you should stop reading any mac posts like they are fanboy claims.
There is a reason that macs are popular whether you want to believe it or not. You may say it's because it's easier for computer ignorant people to get started with macs and I'll have to agree. Windows is an awesome power user OS. And linux is for power power users (and yes that is ever changing)
Just remember next time you want to tell people that they are lying that MS has to program for pretty much every piece of bamboo crap out there while Apple can be a lot more selective.
*On-topic* Sc0rian, that sucks about the iMac. My shuffle was DOA (common issue for the blue Gen. 2's), and luckily I just walked into an Apple store and got the last one available as a replacement. . It also helped that I have a nano and a standard iPod too. I've found that Apple's tech support is generally better than most PC brands (excepting a select few). How did you find their quality to be?
Yay for top-of-the-line, am I right? I think the $225 for the MBP processor upgrade was worth it so that my e-peen is the biggest.
*Off-topic* I use my PC from 3PM to 4AM every day. Daily, I deal with at least one crash (it resets to black with no warning), one slowdown on the order of 5-10 minutes of the PC just churning away, and one complete melt-down where the computer just closes all programs with no warning, and pops up a little message that says something to the effect of "Whoops." With a fresh XP Professional SP2 image, it takes ~2 minutes from button-press to being able to do something, ~5-7 minutes normally with just the programs that I use installed.
Compare that to 1 second to get out of sleep mode, and ~45 seconds boot/reboot time with NO crashes on my Mac. That's why I enjoy using my Mac more, but I generally use my PC to get real work done (2 19" monitors is preferable to 1 15" monitor). When I want my peripherals to work, I use my Mac, when I want to spend time screwing around and fiddling with drivers, then I work with Windows. It's not a question of better or worse, it's a question of preference. I use both OS's, and I enjoy using both. Yes, XP is almost always more unstable, and it's generally a larger PITA to use, but sometimes it's more convenient. Don't just assume that because OS X is "prettier" it's therefore less functional, or since XP is "more powerful" that Mac isn't. It's just a matter of how you use your computer.
You're exactly right about drivers. Apple needs to write drivers for a fraction of a fraction of a percent of what Microsoft needs to write drivers for. However, the tradeoff is usually that Apple's drivers give more functionality (emphasis on usually) while Microsoft drivers may or may not be compatible with all features. And I thought I was the only one who used the phrase "bamboo crap," I guess I'm not.
huh? don't the hardware vendors write the drivers for apple and microsoft?
Stop this Fighting. All Operating systems have good and bad things about them. It personal preference on whether you use windows, mac os, linux, or w/e else is out there. Some people may use any combination of these deal with it. The user chooses his or her os based on what they feel is the best for them. so stop arguing you dam kids.
WHY ARE YOU SCREAMING
Look you lot - you've even got the Embedded fanboys shouting!
i found it ok NoahFuLing, i aint really had time yet to find out tbh
the mac didnt arrive today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
they said it will be here tomorrow
Separate names with a comma.