Hey, ok well the idea of overclocking is pretty new to me - hence i dont fully understand it, so wondering if all you ModHeads out there can give me a little introduction to overclocking - how, Pro's and Cons (if any?) Thanx
Con: It might (and probably does) void your warranty. You must overclock through the bios in stages and not do too much at once. Programs like Super Pi and Prime95 can be used to check stability.
Have a read of this Sticky http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=51323 There are many 'how to's etc out there. Also here http://www.forums.kustompcs.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6870 There are many that will give you a basic idea of; what it is, how to do it, terminology etc. Have fun
Party_refined, what system are you planning to OC? AXP, P4, A64 all requrie slighty different methods, timings etc to gain the maximum performance. A small overclock, keeping the cpu well cooled wont knock a huge amount off its life. Initially take things slow. Once you build up confidence, you'll get to know how far you can take things and what the best jumps are, in both voltage and speed. Usually increase the FSB in 5mhz jumps, checking stability after each jump upping voltage as necessary. http://www.yodasarmpit.co.uk/articles/basics.html Great guide by yoda here, covering all the basics
Pros- you get a high end CPU for a low end price. Cons-Who cares if you CPU dies after two years,what a two year old cpu worth now?15 quid?
cpu'z don't usually die that quick unless you give them crazy volts... pro's - faster cpu and computer, can be much cheaper up to something like 300% e.g a64 3000+ Oc'd will easy beat a 3500+ at stock and thats a £60+ saving con's - theses a very unlikely chance it will void you warrenty when you want to use it. you may need better cooling. you have to have some common sense a bit better motherboard than super trampy edditionn to overclock *and need bios options
The key thing is that now more than ever hardware is sold that runs well below its capabilities. This is done to cover yields and to fulfill all market segments. For example a P4C 2.4ghz is often effectively a P4C 3.4ghz with a lower multiplier set, just by raising the FSB you could find the CPU begins to act flakily at 3.6ghz but can run very stably at 3.4ghz. Same goes for gfx cards (although there's a little more to these such as RAM type and pipelines). In terms of the risks if you take a few precautions they are virtually zero. The biggest contributor to component failure is applying too much voltage, if you keep it at or near stock you shouldn't see much (if any) reduction in lifespan (which as said is commonly 5 years or more). Heat is also another significant factor and this is a big reason why raising voltage can really affect your part. The other being elctromigration where the pathways inside the component effectively burn out, much like forcing too much water down the banks of a river or through a pipe. So take precautions, choose parts carefully and the risks are virtually zero and since the most o/c'able parts tend to be the cheaper ones you can actually afford a few risks should you choose to do so (eg using high voltage). A good example is the latest Venice version of the Athlon64 which can often make even the lowly 64_3000+ into a 64_4000+ beater. 64_3000+ runs at 1.8ghz but Venice versions seem to commonly o/c between 2.5ghz and 2.9ghz; the 64_4000+ runs at just 2.4ghz (albeit with 1MB cache which only helps perf a little).
Its well worth it and if you do it carefully and correctly you wont kill your hardware. My 2600xp was runing at 2.4ghz for about a year and still works fine, ive now replaced it with a 2500Xp Mobile as these require less voltage and run cooler, so they can be overclocked to higher speeds and still keep safe temps and volts. The cpu cost me £50, cooler £25, ram £60 and mobo £60, I get a totally stable 2.5ghz an idle temp of 39oC and load is 44oC. Its pretty quiet (psu is loudest thing) and is quieter, cooler and faster than when I built it with the 2600xp and "cheapo" heatsink... that aint bad for such a small amount of cash To be honest the argument that it shortens the life isnt that important, if a cpus life is say 10 years and you half it thats 5 years, what are the chances youl be using that cpu in 5 years time . But obviously if you putting crazy volts through it and not keeping it with in safe temperatures your gonna kill it The only people I here whining that its all bad are the people that aint tried it or just dont no much about computers, id rather my pc be like this than some off the shelf pc full of dust melting away on its stock cooler... What hardware will be going in this machine?
Oh ok - see i thought it would make the CPU expire like after a year or so - 5 years? thats not bad at all BUT does it only shorten the lifespan of the CPU?? like it doesnt kill the mobo slowly or anything else? Ok, well ive been having some hardware problems due to the power supply killing everything off so ive bought myself these: - Tagan 380w PSU - Abit NF7-s Version 2.0 - 160 GB seagate barracuda SATA - some hard drive coolers but yeah i plan to use my AXP 2400+ that is lying over here < if you guys can reassure me that Ocing will not kill off the motherboard or ram etc (512 unbranded btw) then its all gooood i shall attempt to overclock The thing is i thought that overclocking involved actual physical modification to the CPU? this is whats scared me off :s PartY
Just don't do it. I've never overclocked my 6800GT or 3800+ Venice even though everyone says that they overclock loads.
It doesn't even have to shorten the lifespan of the CPU! Your XP2400+ most likely uses the Tbred_B core which is used right up to the 2.25ghz XP2800+ (333FSB) so if it can run that speed with default voltage its lifespan would be the same as a real XP2800+. You see AMD don't make a bunch of CPUs, see how fast each can run and then stamp them at that speed. They only need to verify each one can run at the speed they're sold as and it's market demand which dictates how many CPUs get sold as XP2400+ and how many are sold as XP2800+. If there's 80% demand for XP2400+, 15% for XP2600+ and 5% for XP2800+ then that's how those CPUs will be set regardless of what they're actually capable of. In terms of risks to the mobo, RAM etc ... well, there aren't any so long as you keep them all within their designed specifications. ie If you avoid pushing an nForce2 (designed for 400FSB) to 440FSB then there should be no risk at all to your mobo whether your CPU is at XP2400+ or XP3200+. Same goes for RAM, if you only run PC3200 at DDR400 and don't push to DDR440 or tighten timings then your RAM is also not bothered whether your CPU is o/c'ed or not. If you want to be ultra-safe keep all voltages stock and keep both mobo & RAM at or below their maximum specced speed. The best thing is if your CPU is unlocked so enter the BIOS and choose 12.5x133 instead of the default 15x133 and see if you end up with a 1.67ghz XP2000+. If so it's unlocked and you can set 10x200=2.0ghz (with RAM synced 5:5) and then up the multiplier 0.5x at a time until it doesn't pass Prime95's Torture Test. Then either drop back to what was stable or try +0.05v and see how much further you can go. 1.65-1.70v is considered a pretty safe over-volt so long as your cooling is decent. If your CPU is locked you can only up the FSB by 5mhz at a time to see how far it can go ... or hardmod the tiny bridges on top of the CPU which is tricky and risky.
What Austin said... If you want to keep it safe then keep the default voltages etc, I was kinda guestemating the figures I gave you so dont take em as fact Its good you got the new psu I think every other person has had a bad experience with psu's. When upgrading my cpu and mobo a few years ago (when I wernt into oc'ing) I kept my old cheapo psu, plugged it all in pressed the power button and the thing just poped and took my cpu and mobo with it, the two brand new components I put . Luckily I mangaged to get them exchanged for new ones at the shop "they just died, honest" guy ended up giving me the next cpu up as he was out of the one I bought Have a look at some overclocking guides and work out how far you want to go. What cpu cooler will you be using? And do you have any money to spend on parts you may need?
Just Don't do it? Care to elaborate on that... All the people who are pro-clocking have done so. Just stating Don't do it is next to useless. Oh, and I say go for it. My XP1700 is at 2.4Ghz, even in the UK's current heat, and have hit 2.8 (not stable). There's no need to go overbboard though (Like me ), but with a decent cooler, ram (You've already got the mobo, I run the non-S version), you're looking at a fairly significant increase over performance. Grab some DDR400, set your FSB to 200, and that's a nice large chunk of "free speed" Hope that helps, InSanCen
Its a Dr Cooler (basic 80mm fan with big aluminium heatsink) nothing special keeps things around 42. Ok .. im slightly confused - the Abit motherboard says it supports 200/266/333/400MHz FSB - by changing the FSB am I changing the motherboard running speed of something or am I changing just the processor running speed? Just trying to understand this lol Also how do i find out what core my athlon is? Im not sure cause its been many years.. And i just remembered - long time ago around palomino core you couldnt put a Tbred in a palomino motherboard? [is this right or did someone con me somewhere?] - is this still an issue? just realised not sure if the 2400 i have will work with the NF7 when it arrives.. Long long ago i used to have an AXP1800+ in a Soyo Dragon - running fine, then one day when i was out the £5 cpu cooler failed and my computer cooked itself [was doing a windows format - i guess the CPU Temp protection doesnt work when doing that?] so i went out to get a replacement 2000+ Palomino core, but then i put this in and it killed everything else, including itself. My dad being annoyed at computer parts lying everywhere in the dining room took the computer to some guy while i was at school - this guy had given meh a cheap mobo, this 2400, and an ok cooler. Oh how i miss my soyo, but the point is he had said that the 2000+ cpu that was still in there was of a different core and wouldnt work with my soyo, which is why it died... is that right? or did i get indirectly conned via my dad. any thoughts? EDIT:: I dont currently have any money but ive been looking fer a job fer a while - i need to expand my drum kit - why what were u thinking i should acquire?
Increasing the FSB increases everything; CPU speed, memory speed and even AGP and PCI speed (but you can those those two down with the Nforce2 chipset so they run at stock speeds reguardless of FSB). CPU-Z should tell you which core your CPU is (though i don't think it can tell the difference between a Throughbred A or B, it just says Throughbred if its either.) btw: i can't see how a different core revision could blow the motherboard. If anything it might just hang upon booting up if the core is not recognised by the bios (in which you put a CPU that can be recognised by the bios and flash to a newer bios, then put the newer cored cpu back in and everything should be dandy)
Excellent so he took my motherboard and cpu and made my dad pay for a new set. This is exactly why rents should never interfere
Just rem for SktA CPUs there's two ways of referring to FSB with and without the DDR speed factored in. Hence 200 & 400 are the same because although it runs at 200mhz it transmits twice per cycle so effectively gives 400mhz perf. Most people use the version with DDR factored in, ie 400FSB but it's no more correct, if you see 200/400 that's quoting both at the same time. Your CPU speed is made up by the FSB (minus DDR) multiplied by the multiplier so your XP2400+ is 15x133=2.0ghz (266FSB). You couldn't just up the FSB to 200/400 without dropping the multiplier firstly because when o/c'ing you should always take small steps and secondly your CPU is likely to peak around 2.2ghz. 15x166=2.5ghz while 15x200=3.0ghz. So long as your CPU isn't locked and your mobo supports it you can change the multiplier, most mobos top out at 12.5x but yours continues way beyond that (thanks to 5th FID bit support). Just to touch on some secondary considerations. Your PCI, AGP and even IDE speeds are often based off the FSB using a divider to keep them at their normal speeds (PCI=33mhz, AGP=66mhz). Generally these will tolerate no more than 10% deviation each way (ie. 30mhz to 36mhz for PCI). For nForce2 you shouldn't have to worry as these should always be fixed, so I won't dwell on it. To find the core you can type 'SET' at a DOS/CMD Prompt and look for 'Family, Model, Stepping'. 6-8-1 is what you will surely find and that's the desirable Tbred_B. XP2400+ never used Tbred_A and I'm guessing your CPU is too old to be locked or the Thorton version. The Pally was the original AthlonXP core and ran very hot at XP2100+ speed and was always locked. The Tbred_A followed which ran cooler but not a lot faster (XP2200+) and was sometimes locked. Tbred_B was next and ran even cooler, faster (XP2800+) and was always unlocked until week 38 2003. Barton was next and was really just Tbred_B with double the cache (about 5% perf boost), again always unlocked until week 38 2003. Thorton was the last AthlonXP core and was essentially the same as Tbred_B (it was actually a Barton with half the cache disabled). The SktA Sempron have followed the AthlonXP but are essentially exactly the same thing but with a bloated perf rating (as they're now pitted against the lowly Celeron rather than the 533FSB P4). To keep compatibility simple think of it as the earlier SktA mobos often couldn't support the cores which were newer than they were. ie KT133 was out before the Pally AthlonXP so often couldn't support them, there were a few mobos which could support Pally but not any of the newer cooler, faster cores (Tbred_A and up). Often a mobo BIOS update helped support. Any remotely recent mobo should support all of the cores so to run them you simply need mobo and RAM to handle the necessary speed. If your mobo supports Tbred_A it shoudl support all of the cores from before Pally right up to the SktA Sempron. So with an old mobo it could easily have not supported the newer core although CPU+mobo death would be extremely unlikely.
Ok Austin, and everyone else, thanx for clearing things up Just awaiting my orders to come though from scan.co.uk A reinstall and 9 more exams later i will attempt some OC' ing *is excited* lol Thanks again, Party
