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Phobya water-cooled case design thread - Stage 1 - Complete - see Stage 2 thread

Discussion in 'Watercooling' started by Combatus, 1 Nov 2010.

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  1. SnowyOwl

    SnowyOwl What's a Dremel?

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    Totaly with you on that Roboduck....Many people have put a lot of hours in their design and if you don't like it you don't have to shout it out loud.

    This is valid for evryone who feels the need to put down other peoples design. You don't need to post your point of view if it's not constructive. And if you feel the need to say something not so nice..... at least have the decency to give a positive aspect of the design, nobody gets paid for this contest....hell my design team gets paid 40 000$ each a year and i don't even tell them stuff like that.

    Be nice life is too short:lol:

    Thanks to everyone who voted for my design i really love all the design they all have something unique.

    David
     
  2. Roboduck

    Roboduck 01110001 01110101 01100001 01100011

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    Thanks Snowy. (Love your design by the way, got one of my votes :thumb:)

    I am a CAD designer (although most of the stuff I design is not nearly this interesting :sigh:) if I got that kind of feedback from my boss I would walk out the door.

    I know the contest hasn't gone as smooth as many had anticipated but everyone is doing their best so can we all just agree to be kind, respectful and civilized human beings for the rest of the contest?

    Thanks

    Edit: I don't mean to pick on you Wing Zero. I am just getting very tired of the all negative comments people are leaving, not just yours. I'm sure you mean well and as Ive said before constructive criticism can be helpful, especially when a alternative solution is also provided. I don't want to discourage you from leaving feedback, just please consider how it will sound if someone was saying it about your design.
     
    Last edited: 20 Dec 2010
  3. jrs77

    jrs77 Modder

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    Sorry guys, but as a designer you've to learn to cope with unconstructive critizism.

    It's the same for a cook... some people like the taste of your meal while others have to vomit tasting it.

    As I'm in the design-business for 15 years now myself I know what I'm talking about and you can only hope for constructive critizism, but most of the time you'll just get a slap in the face instead... even by other professionals and/or customers!
     
  4. Roboduck

    Roboduck 01110001 01110101 01100001 01100011

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    I agree with you to a degree. Sure, if it was a customer paying for a product then I would have a different reaction (I still wouldn't take that kind of feedback/insult from my boss or co-worker though).

    But when those comments come from an outside observer in a public forum that is supposed to be a positive place for sharing ideas, that is a little different. Context has a lot to do with what is acceptable and what is not. Most of the entry's are by nonprofessionals that are doing this for fun. I just feel this should be a place where anyone should be able to share their ideas and thoughts without fear of ridicule or insult.
     
    Last edited: 20 Dec 2010
  5. subtec

    subtec drawing boxes

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    I'm going to break with the crowd a bit and say that I want people to tell me if they think my design sucks, and why. If all you get are cushy compliments how are you supposed to know what to focus on improving? It also teaches you not to get too attached to a design; if it totally sucks, throw it out and start over with what you've learned.

    That said, I'll offer a response to Wing Zero's critique of my design (which I value, so thanks for that):

    The ATX spec designates the slot area as having a maximum component height of (IIRC) 0.6" or so, which the vast majority of boards adhere to and which the rear-mounted PSU in my design clears without issue.

    The entire idea behind the alternate PSU location and reconfigurable bays was to give the user a variety of options with how they wanted to use the space, since not that many people are going to be using dual PSUs, for example. Early versions of the design didn't have that flexibility. Consider it a bonus on top of the basic functionality.

    As for the last slot, again, it's about choice, and how you want to use the space. I could have made the case ridiculously large (instead of just fairly large) and fit everything in and then some, but you've got to draw the line somewhere. Really, even using the rear PSU mount you still have six slots to use - isn't that enough for 95% of multi-GPU configs out there? If you need more, use one of the front bays for the PSU instead. It's about choices.

    The EVGA SR-2 is a huge board and designing a case to contain it is no small feat (oh, bad pun). I think I've managed to design a case that works well from an airflow/cooling and functionality/flexibility perspective that also looks good (IMHO) and fits this huge board, without being overly huge itself.

    You may have noticed that one of the three pics Combatus chose for my entry shows a quad 140mm radiator in the top (+a dual 140 in the bottom), so there are options here as well. The triple 200 rad is a sort of ideal "this would be awesome" kind of thing; I realize the likelihood of them building it for a single case is low, which is why I showed some alternative options. A pair of their 200mm rads in the top is also an option.

    Thanks for the useful feedback.
     
  6. Roboduck

    Roboduck 01110001 01110101 01100001 01100011

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    Edit: NVM :D
     
    Last edited: 21 Dec 2010
  7. ixmatal

    ixmatal What's a Dremel?

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    subtec - I agree that both positive and negative feedback are necessary, but the qualifier there would be whether or not it is constructive. Just leaving a comment to the effect of "it sucks" is just a disservice to everyone involved.
     
  8. subtec

    subtec drawing boxes

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    I thought Wing Zero's criticisms were mostly constructive. He did go into the what/why of his opinion. I think that's useful.
     
  9. Roboduck

    Roboduck 01110001 01110101 01100001 01100011

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    For the most part they were but there were a few questionable remarks in there that I feel could have been left out. I am not saying this because I didn't like the feedback he game me, In fact it was quite useful and gave me a good outside opinion. There were a few comments on others designs though that I thought were a bit disrespectful. I don't want to focus on Wing Zero here, there have been a number of disrespectful comments posted both about the contest and several designs.

    I'm not asking for everyone to puke rainbows and butterflies about others designs, just that you be respectful when critiquing another's design. Wing did post a lot of valid and useful critiques of a lot of designs which I, and I'm sure others, appreciate.

    I REALLY don't want to start a flame war here. I'm sure everyone meant well and everyone is entitled to their own opinion on the matter. I just ask that we try to keep this a positive place for ALL competitors to share their ideas.


    So can we all agree to move on and put this little matter behind us? :)


    Edit: @subtec
    Could you instead of using a custom triple 200 use 3x single 200 rads oriented 90 degs (so the ports all line up like this 0__00__00__0 )and rout them all together to "mock" a triple? Would there be enough width to do that? I still think 3x 200's would be awesome! :rock:
     
    Last edited: 21 Dec 2010
  10. Tigerkeen

    Tigerkeen What's a Dremel?

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    Actually, I was surprised when I saw my concept without main 2d drawing for voting.
    All details were shown in 2D drawing, but not in 3D pictures.
    But it doesn't matter any more.


    It's very, very, very constructive and useful criticism. :lol:
    If You don't know what to say, don't say anything, just be polite.


    I have little criticism about few concepts and recommendations for one:

    30. Wing Zero.
    Criticism:
    1) 5.25in bays in different places, it's not very comfortable (I did the same mistake).
    2) your case-concept can hold huge motherboard from EVGA, but whether it can provide sufficient Watery Cooling and Power Supply ? It's look like no.
    3) location of HDDs, SSDs and pumps is not enough clear (even completely absent)
    on your pictures. It's difficult evaluate the whole concept.

    19. SnowyOwl.
    Honestly, your design one of the most intresting that's why I would like recommend some changes:
    1) try to replace back fan for bigger one (from 120mm to 140mm),
    2) try to install 140mm fan on the front behind owl for better HDDs cooling,
    3) try to turn your hard drives in normal horizontal position,
    4) try to add roundings (10-15mm) for holes in the left and right panels.

    22. Tigerkeen.
    Yep, my concept and my criticism:
    1) didn't work out the details, especially in 3D, no renders.
    2) too long case.
    3) outer design is not intresting.
    4) bad inner location of elements.


    For myself I did my concept better for stage 2.
    But it's look like I'm already out :(
    So I could share with my renew concept.

    Short description:
    - Case dimension, mm: 656(H)x 265(W)x 511(L),
    - Aluminium construction 2mm and 5mm for bearing plates,
    - 2 x PSU, 2-4 x Pumps, 2-4 x water cooling reservoir 150mm,
    - 4 x radiators for 3x140mm fans (2 x 2.140 or 8 x 1.140 rads possible instead of 3.140)
    - 7 x 5.25in bays:
    --- 1 DVD (could be more instead of 1 hdd and 5.25 place),
    --- 6 HDDs (7 if no DVD), (or 12-24 SSD instead hdd),
    --- 6 places for 5.25in (for baycover/ display/ controller), (7 if no DVD).
    - 2 x140mm fan for cooling MB and 5.25in (controllers, HDDs, DVD),
    - 2 x 80mm fan for MB.

    - 3 buttons and 2 fill ports on the front panel.
    - 2 windows (one for MB from plexiglas, another for Water Cooling elements (pumps and reservoirs ) from wire netting).

    My concept in 2d drawing (AutoCAD):
    [​IMG]
    3D in progress now, I hope in the next year I will start creating it in reallife.


    It was really nice to see so many concepts and 3d models in one thread.
    Good luck all.

    Regards,
    Vitaly.
     
  11. Ta10n

    Ta10n What's a Dremel?

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    Thanks for the comments Wing Zero.

    Actually the vents are already included (kinda hard to explain, you can check my drawings on Page 28), although they trade volume of airflow for a clean aesthetic.

    If you've seen some of those SFF cases with the PSU mounted in the front this will use a similar system. A power pass through cable to a socket at the back of the case (again, shown in the Pg 28 drawings).

    Lack of 5.25" bays is a bit of a big deal, although honestly I could live without them. I've just got one optical drive and I hardly ever use it. But the final design would probably have a rack for 2-3 5.25" drives in the top radiator area. So -> use long rads = no 5.25" bays, use slightly shorter rads = 2-3 5.25" bays

    I agree with the fan controller idea, if I go into the final stages I'll try to integrate one.
     
  12. Wing Zero

    Wing Zero Ita-sha owner

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    Nice to see it takes a 'bad guy' to actually provoke some discussion. At least i didn't post in the actual voting thread, y'know the one that was accessible from the frontpage post. then a lot more 'public' people would have seen them. at least here, the entrants take more notice


    i would not have said your design was perfect, it's just that i'd said the same thing to 4 other entries. the main thing that irked me mostly was the colors of your designs. a pitiful thing to call you up upon. so, i withheld comment.

    and finally, someone asks me about my designs..

    1) the multiple locations for 5.25" bays was intended to be as flexible as possible. i'm not quite sure what you mean by 'comfortable'

    2) this was a technical error on my half, due to my design restrictions i imposed upon myself. the PSU is located at the bottom of the case, and lays flat with an air intake on the floor of the case. if the PSU was turned on it's side, and an air intake was put on the side panel, you can easily fit 2 side by side due to the width of the case. this would raise the height of the case, allowing you to include a 3rd 5.25" bay to the 2 lower locations. the reason i did not do this was because it would have been bigger than the 800D yardstick.

    If i made it to stage 2, the possibility of 2 case designs would have emerged. a smaller ATX only, single PSU case, and a larger SR2, dual PSU case. the larger designs could have even held 480 rads.

    3) they are hard to see in pictures, but there are brackets to mount 6 hard drives in the motherboard section. with such a large motherboard plate, a ATX board does not fill it completely, the remaining space is more than enough to screw 2 SSD drives to it. failing that, a converter bracket will make it fit in a HDD space. I did mention in my final writeup that the SSD mounts were planned, but not included on the renders due to lack of time.

    As for pumps. Phoyba pumps are identical to EK pumps. you can get a piece that screws onto a pump, that lets you mount a tube reservoir directly to the pump. i don't know if Phoyba plan to make their own version of this piece yet. failing that, the tube reservoir can be mounted on the dividing wall between rad and mobo sections. once again, due to lack of time, not put on renders.
    I also mentioned that if a bay reservoir is used, you can get ones that can mount up to 2 Laing DCC pumps. so there's that option. failing that, i'm sure that the floor of the mobo section could easily fit a pump or 2. Once again, planned, not rendered.


    The reason for lack of renders is that if i made it to Stage 2, they could have then been produced. since that was more about refinement of the concepts from stage 1.
     
  13. subtec

    subtec drawing boxes

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    I agree. I mean, personally I'd take slightly less tactful feedback over none at all, but I'm all for keeping it civil and pleasant.


    Unfortunately my design isn't wide enough for that. Those rads are 245x200mm, and my design (at the moment) is only 216mm wide - it just fits a 200mm rad as is. Of course, that could all change were it engineered properly for production by someone that actually knows what they're doing :p I'm finding turning the concept into something that could actually be built to be quite a challenge, particularly with some of the ideas I want to incorporate. My strength definitely lies more in the design side of things than the engineering.
     
  14. viljoenp

    viljoenp What's a Dremel?

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    I'll quote from the original article.
    Design Guidlines
    You have the choice of designing a case based on a midi-tower or full-tower or a unique design of your own. The following specifications must be considered but aren't mandatory.


    1. Original brief gives enough room for custom hardware like radiators.
    2. Most of the brief's request can be complied with (except for radiator related issues).

    Midi-sized tower (though this design is prob a bit to big to qualify as midi )

    * Up to two locations for large radiators (minimum of dual 120mm/140mm)
    Not compliant due to custom radiator
    * 1-2 pump mounting locations
    Check
    * 4 x 5.25in bays
    Check ( Internal bays ) though I only opened two , this can change
    * 4 x 3.5in Bays
    Check ( 6 x 3.5in caddy bays )
    * 1 x PSU mount
    Check ( 2x PSU mount )
    * Hole for fill port and external radiators
    Not in the model , but this was supposed to be a rough design phase.
    * Internal mounting for an reservoir as EK Multioption or Phobya Balancer
    Check ( not in model , but have lots of internal space for this.
    Was thinking of better integration with the radiator though )
    * Mounting holes in the side for bigger radiators
    Not compliant due to custom radiator
    * Holes for 16mm or 19mm vandal switches (power and reset buttons)
    Check
    * LED holes for power and HDD lights
    Check

    Full tower

    * Single up to quad Radiator in top also in the bottom (140mm and 120mm)
    Not compliant due to custom radiator
    * 2 - 3 Pump mounts
    Check( enouph space, though not in model )..
    * 2 x 5,25" Bay
    Check( )..
    * 4 x 3.5" HDD Bay with air circulation
    Check ( 6x bay caddy with air circulation )
    * 4 x 2.5" HDD bay with air circulation
    Missing , but should be able to put this somewhere
    * 1 - 3 x PSU mounts
    Check Existing 2 x PSU mount , 3rd was planned and is possible
    * Holes for fill port and external radiators
    Not in the model , but this was supposed to be a rough design phase.
    * 1 or 2 more places for radiators including a Phobya Xtreme 200
    N/A ( unless Phobya make that radiator , then CHECK )
    * Minimum 2 x internal mounts for a reservoir such as the EK Multioption or Phobya Balancer
    Check ( not in model , but have lots of internal space for this.
    Was thinking of better integration with the radiator though )
    * Mounting holes in the side for bigger radiators such as the Phobya Xtreme NOVA 1080 and the Cape Cora
    Not compliant due to custom radiator
    * holes for 16mm or 19mm vandal switches (power and reset buttons)
    Check
    * LED holes for power and HDD lights
    Check

    The current box is 544 (high) x 290 (width) x 670 (depth)
    So it would be classified as a Full tower (i think).
    was planning on trimming it down a bit (hight +- 50mm) , (depth +- 100mm) , (width +- 50mm)

    Of cause my understanding was that if Phobya or someone makes a case like this , they would supply the rad too :)

    The main idea of the case
    1.Keep things compact :
    Thus the lateral flow radiator , nearly ALL exisisting cases waste all
    the space behind/below the mother board, add +- 80mm to the width
    of your box and you have a large area where things like radiators/reservoir can be placed,
    without causing congestion in the main motherboard compartment..​
    2. Keep things quiet :
    Thus not so many fans, and the fans we have are large and tucked inside to reduce noise.​
    3. Simple manufacturing :
    Most of it should be simple and is relatively standard case parts, (bar the radiator)
    even the HDD caddies was carefully planned , so they can be cut from a single sheet of metal. ​
    4. Cosmetics was to come later. i.e. this was supposed to be the rough draft design phase :(
    so it is a bit square to even my taste. ​
    5. Last but not least, Keep the air flow for the box from front to back.
    I see a lot of the other designs (Including yours Wing Zero) have fans for air intake/ radiator outlets to the side of the boxes, this prevents the case from being placed next to a table (or any other object), of even ON top of your table in some cases as this will blow warm air on to the user, ( I know with the weather you have in the Europe now you might not mind so much , but wait till summer ).. ​

    BTW.
    Haven't done the math on the radiator yet ( been twenty years since I did that kind of thermodynamic physics ) , Though I'm pretty sure it will handle 1xCPU + 1xGPU.
    If we do go through to the next phase ( unlikely ) I would have to do proper calculations as to what airflow would be required for 2x CPU + 2xGPU cooling..

    That is my 2c for what its worth..
    Best of luck to you all , Have safe and happy xmas..​
     
  15. Tigerkeen

    Tigerkeen What's a Dremel?

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    But it's always working.

    What did you mean by this, for me still a mystery.
    What and where you did not post?

    There is no design in my previous posts, it's only my concepts.
    They are not perfect. I know it and I never said that they are perfect.

    About colors, it's just a colors. I can separate the concept and design from the colors.
    I would like so that You could do it. At least You can try.

    'flexibility' is better word instead 'comfortable'

    Multiple locations for 5.25" bays is killing 'flexibility'.
    For example I would like to use 2 x 'Aquacomputer Aquadrive X4 copper-Edition HDD-cooler' or or 2 x 'Watercool Silentstar HD-Quad Rev.2' but I can't. It's mean it's not flexible as possible.
     
  16. zukomonitor

    zukomonitor assumption is the mother of all....

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    I have to agree with Roboduck, come's across as a bit... patronising

    The V design come's from my love of High performance cars and was something that I wanted to incorporate. I have more confidence in the 'V' than 'crossflow' - from my limited knowledge of airflow theory The V setup will outperform the crossflow at minimum fan speed.
    The V design is also unique to my case in this competion and with the designs in this comp I need something different to stand half a chance! lol
    The resevoirs were supposed to be exposed but I didnt have the time to finish the outer case to show that.

    :thumb:
     
  17. zukomonitor

    zukomonitor assumption is the mother of all....

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    Wing zero's post made me think about a comment I made on Snowyowls design

    @Snowy owl - I like your case and it seems everybody else does too:thumb: my comment went something like this -

    "Can you make it your own for stage 2?"

    I only meant - it would be a real shame for you to go all the way and then Phobya dont pick your design because of lawsuit worries from Apple.

    :thumb:
     
  18. Roboduck

    Roboduck 01110001 01110101 01100001 01100011

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    That was my first reaction to the design. But the more I look at it It is a unique enough design that the Apple police shouldn't be a problem. :thumb:
     
  19. SnowyOwl

    SnowyOwl What's a Dremel?

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    @ zukomonitor & Roboduck

    I did look for patent infringement for design and i have found nothing that would exclude somebody from producing a case that would look like the MacPro.

    The fact is anyone who design a case will have some feature that makes you think to...another case. Anytime you put feet like this people are going to say it looks like a mac. If you look at Roboduck design you could say it's similar to Antec 100 or Silverstone PS03, but they are not popular or not as much as the MacPro. By the way I love your design Roboduck i did vote for you.

    I must admit i'm a little woried about the reaction of people at phobya. we are a long way from the end but if.....i could end up in the top 3 what would they say? Too much like the Mac or Hey! people will like it since it recalls them the Apple....Hard to say.

    For now the question remains.... to get away or not to get away from this design.:confused:

    It's unique but is it enough to go all the way....i was with in reach of Roboduck two days ago and bang! i it the wall at 45votes while he continues is constant climb to the top...this is going to be a great fight :rock:
    Thank for your comments:thumb:
     
    Last edited: 23 Dec 2010
  20. zukomonitor

    zukomonitor assumption is the mother of all....

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    @ Snowyowl -

    I based my comment on memories of people using the apple case's in projects so Ive had a proper look and after seeing your case... they all look pretty crap in comparison!

    so hopefully no worries:thumb:

    edit: I think maybe some reassurance from aquatuning before you change anything. another thing that has made me think is the handles in your design - being watercooled all the cases are going to be heavy and I dont recall anybody else having handles (cant remember anyway) so thats def a +point for your case.....

    Goes off to think of handle design......... lol
     
    Last edited: 23 Dec 2010
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