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Development Picking a language for a dynamic website

Discussion in 'Software' started by Naked_Dave, 26 Apr 2006.

  1. John Cena

    John Cena New Member

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    What are you talking about? Functions have Descriptive names???
    Urmm...what .net functions dont have descriptive names??????? Please do tell. Do you know what intellisense is?

    PHP must suck if a File open function is named "file_open_andthen_open_internalreader_todo_code_andthencallsomeelse_andfinally_close()"


    And Overhead???? With .NET 2.0, you can compile your stuff into machine code. Do you know how fast that is? Have you seen the benchmarks where .NET 2.0 wastes php and java servlets? I guess machine code must be reaaally slow...

    I have never dealt with "stupid ms licenses" and I'm a .net developer. All the tools I use are free. IIS is free, CSharp Developer is free. When I'm ready to deploy, I move my files that are compiled into a DLL onto godaddy's servers. Where's the "stupid ms licenses" your talking about??????

    We are talking web development here. Portability isnt an issue.
     
  2. John Cena

    John Cena New Member

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    Perhaps, you mean free as in freedom. (PHP IS TERRORIST!!!!!)

    It doesn't matter anyway, PHP is out of the question because it wont run on his IIS web server.

    (btw where does the topic starter make a reference to classic ASP? ASP is nothing compared to .NET. ASP is what everything php is. .Net is everything Java and php and asp try to be).
     
    Last edited: 27 Apr 2006
  3. John Cena

    John Cena New Member

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    PHP
    $ourFileName = "testFile.txt";
    $fh = fopen($ourFileName, 'X') or die("Can't open file");
    fclose($fh);

    What kind of ugly messy code is that? What is the datatype of $ourfileName? Where is it declared? Is it global??????

    is $fh a string, a object, a object derived from the file class???

    .NET Version
    string filePath = "testFile.txt";
    try
    {
    StreamReader sr = new StreamReader(filePath);
    } catch { throw new Exception("Can't open file"); }
    finally { sr.Close(); }


    need I say more?
     
  4. Bruno_me

    Bruno_me Fake-ad‎min

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    it's incredably apparent that you don't actually know php at all, and, really are just a fanboy. to humor you, and tell the OP and other people what's right, I'll look at some of the things you said

    here's the good way of opening a file (the die() part isn't necessary, it's there for error catching, like your example)
    PHP:
    $file fopen("filename.txt""r") or die("couldn't open the file");
    I certainly know what it means to open a file, but what about to open a stream? not to mention that my example was one line, whereas yours was 6. (that's the ease of use/learning part)

    moving along, I come to these gems
    I guess that's true oh wait what's this? a page on php.net that tells you how to use php on iis (I could link to pages on microsoft.com that tell you all about running php on iis)

    on portability- what if he wants to move from a crappy iis host to a decent LAMP host? if his page is written in php, it's painless. if he starts on a LAMP host and moves to an iis host that doesn't have php, however, he'll have to rewrite the whole damn thing in asp

    (that was the you really don't know what you're talking about part)
     
  5. OneSeventeen

    OneSeventeen Oooh Shiny!

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    The common arguments in this debate, and especially those that are mentioned here, are all very subjective, and pretty much irrellevant.

    I choose PHP because that's what I learned first. If I learned ASP first, I'd probably be a .NET fan. But I'm not, so I will use PHP.

    I reccomend you play around with both, and talk with the group of people you will be working with. Are they going to host this? Do they have an existing network? What type of servers do they have?

    PHP meets my needs, but that doesn't mean it will meet everyone's needs. ASP is the same way. Both languages support object oriented programming, both can be compiled into .dll's, and both have tons of resources available for them.

    My advice is come up with 2 simple applications that have similar requirements. Code one in PHP, and one in .NET, and see which one feels better for you.

    I'd also reccomend checking out the online documentation for PHP and .NET, to see which is more readable for you. I have friends who love the .NET documentation, whereas I could find the square-root of pi with pencil and paper before I could find out how to use a .NET function. (This is due to the way I am used to browsing documentation, and also due to how lazy I am when it comes to trying to figure something out.)

    Play around, and try it for yourself. Despite what most people may say, both languages are very comperable (and most other languages are very laughable), and both have their strengths/weaknesses.

    Just please, for the love of God, whatever language you choose, if you make a web application, keep it on the web! Don't do client-side application development using web programming as a medium. This pisses me off to no end. I cannot use half of the multimillion dollar applications we use at my work because they have client-side portions of code that only work in IE. (which doesn't run to well on linux)
     
  6. John Cena

    John Cena New Member

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    OMG THE FAN BOYISM in your post is overwhellming.

    You said my code takes 6 lines and your code takes one line...what you missed was that my code was doing error catching.

    I could easily do one like by saying "StreamReader sr = new StreamReader(filePath);"


    Now you explain this....
    How do you know what fopen() returns???? Could it return a reference to the file, could it return a boolean? Oh wait..let me waste 5 minutes by looking at the php documentation on what it actually returns since there arent any good IDE's for php that tells you what that function returns.

    Thats just the begaining of php's flaws. The ability to declare a variable without a datatype is just ridiculous. This increases so much debugging time and bugs...



    ANY REAL language out there is TRUE OOP and has data types. PHP is scripting. S C R I P T I N G

    you will never get cool features like inheritance, interfaces, internal classes, structs etc.

    BTW...what about MONO.Net?????

    ASK ANY Java/.Net developer and they will tell you php is a joke. It will never be true OOP or have the functionaility/capability java and .net has.

    To the topic start...either learn java or .net. Not some scripting language.


    Also php cannot be compiled into a DLL.
     
    Last edited: 28 Apr 2006
  7. Bruno_me

    Bruno_me Fake-ad‎min

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    How do you know what StreamReader() returns???? Could it return a reference to the file, could it return a boolean? Oh wait..let me waste 5 minutes by looking at the asp documentation on what it actually returns

    (that's the ease of learning part- I want to open a file (fopen), not read a stream)

    edit: you didn't define what filePath is. and that's just the beginning of the flaws in your argument
     
    Last edited: 28 Apr 2006
  8. John Cena

    John Cena New Member

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    Shows what you know about OOP. StreamReader() intiates the object therefore it returns a StreamReader. You dont even need a IDE to know what it returns...but in PHP you have to look up the documentation.

    PLUS the IDE (both Visual Studio and the free CSHARPDEVELOP) shows you what it returns ON THE FLY with intellisense.


    I didnt need to define filePath. I could have just put the direct string in there.

    .Net > PHP it's time to stop being in denial.
     
  9. Bruno_me

    Bruno_me Fake-ad‎min

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    wow, looks like I've been bested :rolleyes:

    it's funny you quote bush, he's got a lot of similarities to you

    OP, if you want to use .net and look like this moron, go for it.

    I recommend php


    ps. JC, you know a ton about web design
     
  10. John Cena

    John Cena New Member

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    My website has nothing to do with web design

    I dont even have time to work on it so it was a pure rush job.The site is pure css (tableless).

    That brings me to ASP.Nets web features..

    Thanks to ASP.NET 2.0...I dont need full css and dont need to avoid tableless layouts.

    .NET 2.0 has a builtin theming enging and "master" layout pages which allows you TONS of flexibility when redesigning your site. Therefore...you do not have to depend on css anymore solely on the reason of avoiding tables.

    If you ever want a high paying job...go for .NET or java. If you want to do free lance and live off welfare stamps, go for php.
     
  11. Bruno_me

    Bruno_me Fake-ad‎min

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    pure css eh?
    it's also funny because you think java is good
     
  12. John Cena

    John Cena New Member

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    As I said.....that was a rush job...everyone has a person website so I wanted one but because I have hardly any time to spare..it was a rush job.

    Java is a good (better than PHP) but it will never beat .NET. .NET is a light years ahead when it comes to web development.
     
  13. Bruno_me

    Bruno_me Fake-ad‎min

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    why are you allowed on the internet

    edit: I know you'll say something like 'lol look hes pointing out gramar lol', but look at your posts and see how many errors there are. that probably contributes to your debugging time
     
  14. Naked_Dave

    Naked_Dave New Member

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    Woah! I only wanted advice, not mud wrestling :p

    It's most likely that I'll be hosting this on a unix server, at least at first (It's not a professional site or anything, so until i find out how popular it's likely to be, I don't want to pay too much for hosting). Windows isn't totally out, if a large proportion of you really think .net is that much better, though.
     
  15. [Jonny]

    [Jonny] New Member

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    In fact, only John Cena said you should use .NET. Most other people said you should probably use PHP (you've had experience with it, it's simple, free etc)

    All we need to to is to convince John Cena that PHP is made by Microsoft, and pretty much everyone would have voted for PHP.

    I would suggest you do what OneSeventeen said though. :)
     
  16. RTT

    RTT #parp

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    thread -= idiot;
     
  17. John Cena

    John Cena New Member

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    That wouldn't compile..

    It's because thread is a different object type than idiot. You cant mix object types together....php on the other hand encourages this and produces bad programmers.

    It should be like this

    thread.Idiots.Remove(idiot);

    Another reason to use .NET
     
  18. Naked_Dave

    Naked_Dave New Member

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    I think I'll go with PHP, but I'm starting to learn RoR too - I quite like what I've seen of it so far.
     
  19. OneSeventeen

    OneSeventeen Oooh Shiny!

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    Sounds cool, be sure to post back with RoR stuff, I've heard a lot about it, but haven't talked with anyone who uses it.

    The more tools in the toolbox, the more things you can do!
     
  20. Ramble

    Ramble Ginger Nut

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    I think Scott Bakula should make his own scripting language.

    He could call it Ziggy.
     

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