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CPU PII 965 vs i5-750, etc.

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by P965, 30 Nov 2009.

  1. P965

    P965 Phenom II 965 Black 3.4GHz 8MB

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    Please advise on cpu & mobo, etc.

    :confused:
    -------------------------------------

    Not a gamer, just want a good, fast, solid, rugged, general purpose [SO/HO] machine.

    Currently use and need {poor eyesight & cataracts} dual monitors.

    ==================================

    Was going to build:

    an AMD Phenom II 965 Black [3.4GHz 8MB]
    on a MSI KA780G:
    (AMD 780G & SB700 Chipset; ATI Radeon HD3200 IGP; VGA, DVI, HDMI; Gigalan; PCI-E x16);
    with 4 - 8 GB PC8500 DDR2 (2X2) {1066MHz};
    running Win7 Pro x 64 bit {w/ XP emulation}.

    ==================================

    Based upon what Fry's is pushing and with the changing price & availability of DDR 2 vs 3, am considering changing to :

    an Intel i5-750 [2.66GHz 8MB]
    on a MSI P55-CD53 [LGA 1156 SOCKET]:
    (Intel P55 Chipset; Gigalan; 1 PCI-E x16);
    with 4 - 8 GB DDR3 (2X2) {1333MHz};
    running Win7 Pro x 64 bit {w/ XP emulation if / when needed}.

    ------------------------------

    Would the i5 & mobo be worth the extra $50?

    ================================

    Already have 2 PCI-E graphics boards on hand:

    BFG 1 GB DDR3, NVIDIA GeForce 9800GT;
    and a
    VisionTek 512 MB, ATI Radeon X1300

    -------------------------------------

    Trying to decide between:
    Cooler Master - 932 HAF, or Sniper {with side fan} [both $140 at Fry's];
    or Antec 902 [$80 at Fry's].

    Thinking of an Antec 650 watt psu [$60 at Fry's], or a Corsair 650 [$90].

    Will probably have:
    a pair of Seagate 1TB 7200rpm 32MB HDs,
    with a Kingston SSD now V series 64GB boot;
    a pair of LG sata 22x DVD +/- RW drives;
    a 3.5" floppy,
    and ???.

    Thanks,
    Chuck

    :wallbash:
     
  2. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    Start here http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/buyers-guide/2009/11/10/what-hardware-should-i-buy-november-2009/1

    December will hopefully be out soon but that will give you a rough idea. Remember, it may be better to mix and match, ie cheaper case (I love the antec 300 tho its a nightmare for tidy cabling) and getting the better GPU.

    Personally I would go for an i5 build. Its faster than phenomII and although theres not much in it I'd rather have DDR3 over DDR2 if I was to build from scratch. Looking at your post it seems your going higher end so i5 or i7 is the way to go. Out of interest what is the over all budget for your build?

    For your Phenom build check the MSI c45. Its cheap but an awsome performer.
     
    Last edited: 30 Nov 2009
  3. tonpal

    tonpal What's a Dremel?

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    I do not subscribe to the view that Core i5 is "better" than Phenom II. The number of threads that are popping up comparing the two is indicative of it not being a clear cut decision.

    In terms of performance the Core i7 750 will execute more instructions per cycle than the Phenom II. A stock Phenom II X4 965 will perform to a comparable level to the Core i5 750 but you need to rember that the Phenom II is clocked at 3.4GHz and the Core i5 is clocked at 2.66GHz so clock for clock the Core i5 wins out. This better performance of the Core i5 starts to become particularly evident when overclocking.

    The Core i5 also has turbo boost which allows it to use the thermal headroom created by putting one or more cores into a low power state. This provide a clock increase of up to 533MHz. This gives quite a boost to software that doesn't scale well across cores such as older games.

    Therefore if you are running single threaded software or overclocking you should see benefits from the Core i5. If you are running multi-threaded software at stock frequencies then niether has a particular performance advantage.

    In terms of upgradability Phenom II has the advantage that AMD have standardised on the AM3 socket so, for example, when AMD bring out their 6 core processors it should be possible to drop one into a system.

    Cost wise a the Phenom II X4 is around £30 to £50 cheaper than a Core i5 depending on the Phenom II model and the choice of motherboard. On a limited budget more benefit can be gained, particularly for gaming, in putting that money into a better graphics card.

    My view is that either a Phenom II X4 or a Core i5 will be perfectly adequate. The choice is in the detail of what would suit an individual's needs best which comes down to balancing the relative performance, upgradablility and cost.
     
  4. P965

    P965 Phenom II 965 Black 3.4GHz 8MB

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  5. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    As you said i5 is faster per clock. Im so use to assuming most people will just OC in which case i5 will trounce the phenomII. Don't get me wrong, Im about to upgrade to phenomII myself in the future but if I was gonna do a complete rebuild I would go straight to i5.

    While AMD are making their 6cores a drop in straight for AM3 theres no guarentee it will be for AM2+. The other matter is will it be worth it? After all,most applications don't use quads how long will it be before 6cores are used? I generally don't use the future proofing option as a hard sell as its so unpredictable.

    Im guessing SO/HO is standard office/home office build? If so an Athlon system would suffice. Still need the OP to give more details on exactly what he'll be using it for.
     
    tonpal likes this.
  6. P965

    P965 Phenom II 965 Black 3.4GHz 8MB

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    Thanks, but I'm still a bit puzzelled.

    :confused: :blush:

    Most of my use will just be "office type" work: MS Office, Open Office, email, internet browsing & research, etc..
    I suspect that it would be mostly single thread.

    Not sure that I would use any overclocking.

    :worried:

    Thanks,
    Chuck
     
  7. P965

    P965 Phenom II 965 Black 3.4GHz 8MB

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    :confused:

    Not sure that I would need / use overclocking.

    Which mobo would you use [AM3 & (2x2) DDR3] in order to be able to upgrade to 6core ... someday?

    Sorry, ... Small Office / Home Office.

    Thanks,
    Chuck
     
  8. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    To be perfectly hones a £300-£400 system is more than enough for what you need.

    CPU: Athlon II x2 250. You could go for an Athlon II x4 620 if you wanted a quad.

    motherboard: MSI 770-C45

    Ram: Any cheap DDR3 2x2gb pref (1x2gb absolute min)

    HDD: Any 500gb. ATM seems 500gb-1tb range gives the best prive vs storage space. If you want get a SSD. Not neccessary but will make things seem more snappier for a cost tho.

    Case: Could do with any £20. For office work just go for what looks good.

    PSU: 400W min, Corsair, OCZ, BeQuiet are great brands (never cut cornors and buy a cheap PSU. Always get a good quality one which isn't always the most expensive either)

    Optical: could put in blu-ray but any DVD-RW is about £16 these days.

    Cooler: not too important but if you abit of quietness artec freeezer pro rev2 got a good review recently.

    Sorry for lack of links. In uni ATM so limited what sites I can get on. Ill link builds later.

    Hope that helps
     
  9. tonpal

    tonpal What's a Dremel?

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    From what you have posted above Javaman's suggestion would be better suited to your needs.

    I would add Enermax to the list of PSUs he has suggested.

    As far as cases go, you might want to look at the Antec 300 or the Silverstone PS02B Precision.

    I should really have taken a closer look at what you were intending to use the computer for before rushing into a comparason between the Phenom II X4 and the Core i5. My bad.
     
  10. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    Snap, 1000 is a mighty budget. On my way home now so Ill get a few builds up in about 2hrs time unless you wanna have a shot tonpal?

    BTW does your budget include mouse, keyboard, OS and monitor?
     
  11. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    Processor: Athlon II X2 240 55.00
    mobo: MSI 770-C45 79.99
    Ram: 2 X 2gb 72.99
    Case: Ill let you pick, Personal preference. I recommend the Antec 300 or silverstone FT01-Bw (think its that from memory)
    PSU: OCZ 500W PSU 64.99
    CD-RW: Samsung 25.99
    HSF: Artic Freezer Pro 7 rev2 33.98
    HDD: 500gb 54.99

    Total:$387.93 thats without a case factored in.

    You could go for a bigger HDD, Blu-ray drive even another AM3 processor such as the 620 quad core. The spec listed above is good for what you need it for tho plus abit extra. It could handle some light gaming and full HD playback. Some Photo editing shouldn't be a problem either.
     
    Last edited: 30 Nov 2009
  12. Moyo2k

    Moyo2k AMD Fanboy

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    Know your Chips

    Phenom II is for budget gaming, end, for most everything else, the i5 eats it, but the Phenom is amazing at gaming, I've seen the 955 beat the i7 965 at high res gaming more than once, so unless your budget is restricted or your just a pure gamer, then there's not much reason to pick the phenom, hard for me to say really :sigh: but the 955 is still quick at encoding etc... just not as quick
     
  13. tonpal

    tonpal What's a Dremel?

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    Javaman's recommendation is sound however I thought I would add my bit. You know what they say about opinions.......everyone has one.

    Where I have suggested an alternative I have shown the pricing relative to Javaman's post.

    Pretty much what I would have suggested. If you are not in a hurry Intel will be bringing out their core i3 early next year so it may be worth waiting to see how that shapes up.

    The 770 based motherboards only have one graphics slot but it might be time to retire the X1300 and run both monitors off the 9800GT.

    The Silverstone FT01 is actually a personal favourite of mine.

    My recommendation would be the 500W Enermax Eco80+ +$25

    The Samsung Spinpoint F3 seems to be the flavour of the month as far as HDDs go. Newegg has them at the same price as the Seagate.
     
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  14. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    +1 for the PSU recommendation. forgot to check the enermax after you recommended them >.> I haven't used the silverstone in any personal builds but Ive heard alot of good things about it.

    btw +rep tonpal
     
  15. P965

    P965 Phenom II 965 Black 3.4GHz 8MB

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    Can't tell you how much I appreciate all of your help.

    :thumb:

    For almost 3 years, I have been using a stock HP a1630n.
    When my eyes started failing, I added the X1300 driving both an old stock HP 17" crt monitor and an Olevia 32" lcd HDMI monitor which I had stumbled into (It had been a display {demonstrator} at the local Comp USA store when it went out of business.)

    :idea:

    Recently, the X1300 died, so I have been using the onboard VGA to drive one monitor.
    The X1300 has a "lifetime" warranty, but getting it replaced has been a major hassle.
    When I found one at a good price, I bought the 9800GT; but have not installed [or opened] it yet.

    :rolleyes:

    Somewhere along the way, I talked myself into getting a new computer.
    Locally, I couldn't find anything that I liked.
    There wasn't much available because everyone was waiting for Win 7.

    :eyebrow:

    Frustrated, I decided to build what I wanted.
    This is my first full custom build.

    :eeek:

    When I wander around in Fry's, things just seem to "evolve" ... rapidly.
    It is a bear of a drive to get there, so I can't go very often.

    The temptation is to build more than you "need" in order to insure a longer lifespan.
    The primary argument for building seems to be that you can easily maintain and upgrade a custom build, thus "outlasting" several cheaper [lower quality] stock (mass produced) units.

    :dremel:

    Also, you can avoid being forced into changing operating systems, software, etc., when the stock unit dies at an inopportune time.

    :waah:

    Of course, there is an enormous learning curve which must be overcome in order to "get everything right".
    In any event, it has certainly been an adventure.

    :duh:

    Once again, thank you so much for all of your help,

    Chuck
     
  16. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    np =) here to help. If you arn't gonna upgrade then Maybe for for the athlon II x4 620 Quad then. Not totally neccessary but quads will become standard eventually. Extra HDD's are easy to throw in at a later date and with 4gb ram you shouldn't need to upgrade for several years. Heck, with the netbook movement/ low power devices and consoles on the gaming side, theres no real need for uber high power systems these days unless your a heavy editor/ encoder. Your 9800gt should be able to handle most games fine maybe with a slight settings or AA drop on that PC too. The other thing you can splash out on is an SSD but its really for prestige in a system with your needs but it is noticable faster and snappier than an HDD.

    Enjoy your sytem and remember to post shots up here when it arrives :thumb:
     
  17. tonpal

    tonpal What's a Dremel?

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    Glad we were of help.

    I know what you mean about the temptation to buy something that exceeds your needs but remember that what is state of the art now will be a power hungry dog in 3 to 5 years time.
     
  18. P965

    P965 Phenom II 965 Black 3.4GHz 8MB

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    CD / DVD drives

    The SATA CD / DVD drives are considerably more expensive than the EIDE CD / DVD drives.

    :(

    Are the SATA CD / DVD drives any faster to load to the system, or to copy from one drive to another?

    :wallbash:

    Isn't the limiting factor the speed of the drive not the interface?

    :eyebrow:

    Would using the EIDE CD / DVD drives take some of the load off the SATA controller?

    :idea:

    The SATA CD / DVD drives cables would be neater, but ...

    :dremel:

    Help please.

    Thanks,
    Chuck

    :confused:
     
  19. Yourcomputer

    Yourcomputer What's a Dremel?

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    Last I checked at Newegg, SATA drives are right around the same price as the IDE drives.

    The speed will be the exact same, and you aren't going to saturate the SATA bandwidth with a couple hard drives and an SATA drive.

    I'd definitely go SATA though as it is much nicer cable management wise, and IDE ports are being phased out, the SATA drive will be able to be used in this and future builds or motherboard changes for as long as you are still using DVD's and CD's (I'm thinking media is going more online, on-demand instead of blueray in the future anyway).
     
  20. P965

    P965 Phenom II 965 Black 3.4GHz 8MB

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    Thanks.

    Which cd / dvd drives would you get?
     

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