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Other Piracy

Discussion in 'Software' started by Zinfandel, 2 Aug 2010.

  1. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    Fair play, but not everyone can afford to wait ten years to see if this type of policy will pay off. Most small businesses are more centred around trying to see out the global financial crisis at the moment. Gates is speculating that there will eventually be a return on a market that his company has no control over. He isn't basing this speculation on anything other than a gut feeling. Hardly conclusive evidence in favour of piracy. I would bet my bottom dollar that if they were offered the choice of being able to completely eradicate the ability to use pirate OS'es, or just hope that one day they will get a return, then I could guess which he would choose. He knows that his (ex)company carries no weight in China, so he's out on a wing and a prayer.

    So you keep suggesting, but you do not have any conclusive evidence that this is in fact true.
     
  2. Pieface

    Pieface Modder

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    ... But you are... You specifically stated that due to the research you have seen on the music industry, that copyright infringement is a victimless crime. You never said it may be a victimless crime, you have constantly argued it is a victimless crime.
     
  3. Krazeh

    Krazeh Minimodder

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    And you don't have any conclusive evidence that it isn't true.
     
  4. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    I do have enough to convince me though, as I have shown here.
     
  5. Pieface

    Pieface Modder

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    You don't usually need conclusive evidence for stuff that isn't true. The conclusive evidence is needed to prove that it is, as a fact true.
     
  6. Elledan

    Elledan What's a Dremel?

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    Says who? :p
     
  7. phulshof

    phulshof What's a Dremel?

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    I reread what I wrote, and I must admit that I did give that impression, although such was not my intention. My apologies for that.
     
  8. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    Him......... obviously:wallbash:

    Just kidding:D
     
  9. Krazeh

    Krazeh Minimodder

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    Well I'm glad you're convinced but you'll need more than your limited amount of "evidence" linked with your clear views on piracy to actually present any of it as unbiased independent evidence.

    Well considering we don't know which one is true then you'd need conclusive evidence for either.
     
  10. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    I could be classed as biased on both sides of the coin, as I have infringed copyright many times before, but I also recognise that it does have a financial impact on developers etc. due to commercial experience. So which side are you suggesting I am swaying on?

    EDIT: Are you also expecting me to take your opinion as the correct one, when you have no commercial experience or even independant study to back up your claims? Quid Quo Pro?
     
  11. Krazeh

    Krazeh Minimodder

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    I'm suggesting you're biased on the side of piracy causing large amounts of financial impact/damage on companies.

    No, i'm merely expecting you to realise that in terms of an argument your opinion holds very little weight given what it's based on. It's all personal experience coloured by your own views on what piracy may or may not be doing to commercial enterprises.
     
  12. Pieface

    Pieface Modder

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    Well you can't make up facts as true without evidence, and then tell someone to prove them wrong with evidence when your "facts" have no backbone at all anyway.
     
  13. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    Because it has been shown to affect my business, yes. However, it isn't a problem that is at a level where I would consider it a threat to my companies existence, because software and OS sales make up a limited portion of my gross turnover. It is worrying enough to be paying serious attention to though. Now if you wish to suggest that I am wrong, knock yourself out:D
     
  14. phulshof

    phulshof What's a Dremel?

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    Actually, if you reread what I wrote there: that's just common logic that can hardly be argued against. The big question is: is group 3 larger than the part of group 1 that would not have bought without the copy. That's what determines the damage of copyright infringement on the producer.
     
  15. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    No it is experience gained within the IT sector, as an established and respected SME that allow me to form such opinions, as well as my personal experience of using pirate software etc. etc. Now your opinions are entirely personal.

    If you can't beat them discredit them eh?:D
     
  16. Krazeh

    Krazeh Minimodder

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    Err, hasn't that pretty much been your entire approach this entire thread? Everytime someone has opposed your views you've not brought up any real evidence to dispute them and have merely just attempted to discredit them as not knowing what they're talking about or being immoral/evil or just out and out criminals.

    As it is pointing out the extent to which your experience actually extends and the validity of the evidence you're presenting as the be all and end all of your argument for "piracy is evil and costs companies lots of money" isn't an attempt to discredit you, it's merely pointing out your evidence isn't as persuasive as you might like to think
     
  17. phulshof

    phulshof What's a Dremel?

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    Well, you have to admit that on numerous occasions you have asked me for verifiable proof of my points of view, yet when you post yours you just call upon your "personal experience" which is in no way verifiable to us. It would lend credibility to your arguments if you had some independent studies to support your position.
     
  18. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    At the end of the day, I have pointed out why I have my opinions, and tried to be as frank and honest as possible when these opinions were challenged. If you think I have tried to dismiss others opinions by doing this, then that's your opinion and there's nothing I could say to change that, even if I wanted to.

    I think my experience of piracy is one that is often shared by other independant IT sector SME's, and I know this because I communicate with my peers. I'm an active member of my local Chambers of Commerce, the Professional Computer Association and also The British Computer Society, so this is an argument I hear and discuss frequently. I'm also studying for a BSc in IT & Organisations in my spare time. I'm not trying to prove anything here other than the fact that I didn't just wake up three or four days ago and suddenly decide piracy was wrong. It's taken me time to form my opinions, and lengthy discussions with my peers, before I could safely say that I was anti piracy.
     
  19. phulshof

    phulshof What's a Dremel?

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    Why do you request verifiable proof from others if you feel it unnecessary to provide your own? What kind of discussion on a topic can we have if we have to argue against your "personal experience"? You don't seem at all interested in having an independent review of your experiences in spite of similar claims from the music industry having been proven wrong by such studies.
     
  20. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    So you didn't either? Come on man don't try to claim that we all haven't been asking for proof here.

    As for conclusive studies being carried out, don't be silly, of course I would welcome them. In the meantime though, I can only go on what is happening within my business, and also I would prefer to base my own judgements on what I see and how it affects me. Business basics.
     

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