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Other Piracy

Discussion in 'Software' started by Zinfandel, 2 Aug 2010.

  1. roland777

    roland777 What's a Dremel?

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    It does annoy me that people will more readily pirate MS Office than use Open Office. It annoys me more that people will pirate Windows rather than using a decent OS. Although the amount of anti-linux propaganda generated by MS over the years is probably a little to blame for this.
     
  2. Bakes

    Bakes What's a Dremel?

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    or just buy windows - it's the best value software you will ever buy!
     
  3. roland777

    roland777 What's a Dremel?

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    If we (as a society) are to have any hope of solving the problem of copyright infringement, people like you need to get over your sense of moral outrage. This problem needs a practical and workable solution - the attitude you display does nothing to help.
     
  4. roland777

    roland777 What's a Dremel?

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    I'll say this: it's much better than it used to be! It's not really my cup of tea (although I do have to use it when at work), but if it's what you like to use I suppose it is pretty good value really.
     
  5. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    My next computer will probably run Linux. And OpenOffice. I'm just tied to 2007 Exchange Server for work, and linux e-mail programs do not yet seamlessly connect to that.
     
  6. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    And the attitude you display does nothing but water down a serious problem. I'm not outraged by piracy, I'm outraged that people try to justify it with the flimsiest of reasons, play it down, ignore it, make out it's a victimless crime etc. etc.

    Those who pirate should be forced to face the reality of their habits, and should also be able to comprehend that they are acting no better than thieves, but all we hear is denial, flimsy excuses, and downright hypocricy.

    There are two things I always used to pride myself on when I was younger, one was the fact that I may have been in bother but I was never a thief, and the other was the fact that I have always tried to be honest, both to myself and to others.

    When I used to pirate games, I didn't consider what I was doing to be wrong (in the grand scheme of things), and I used this as justification for my actions. If it wasn't really wrong, then it was OK. But then I started to grow up, and with that I began to appreciate the value of items and money. So it became harder for me to justify my actions when pirating. I began to feel like I was stealing, and I was lying to myself when I did rip games. So I took the decision to stop. I then began to enjoy buying things, instead of having this nagging doubt in my mind as to whether I was doing the right thing or not. I don't make excuses for the time that I did pirate, and I accept that I acted no better than a thief in doing so. At least I can admit this, and not try to justify my actions with half baked logic and dodgy legal eagle ********.
     
    Last edited: 25 Aug 2010
  7. roland777

    roland777 What's a Dremel?

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    I'm honestly not trying to provoke you, but can I ask why this seems to be such a personal issue for you? Why is it so important to you that the 'pirates' are 'forced to face the reality of their habits'?
     
  8. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    What makes you think it is personal for him? And why should that matter?
     
  9. Daedelus

    Daedelus What's a Dremel?

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    Outlook Web App?
     
  10. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    Well, I don't suffer bullshitters gladly. I also detest the way pirates seem to think they have the higher moral ground too.

    Here's a theoretical question for you:

    A woman with a few kids is struggling to get by, she goes into a shop and makes a silly on the spot choice to try her hand at shoplifting for something she could never afford but needs badly, and gets caught. She now faces a criminal record, the potential of a jail sentence and the shame of her crime. This happens frequently, especially in areas of the UK where deprivation is putting people in poverty.

    Now we come to the second scenario. A gamer hears about the latest game, everyone wants it. He can't be arsed going to the shops, or doesn't have enough cash for it, whatever, so decides to pirate it.

    He has committed an act which could have the same net result as the first example, but who is the one who is going to suffer the most? Who is the one who is almost certain to be caught and who is the one who is not? Who is most worthy of punishment?
     
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  11. roland777

    roland777 What's a Dremel?

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    I'd like to try to understand why he feels like he does, to see if it's possible for me to see things from his point of view.
     
  12. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    Well if you haven't figured it out by now, you never will!:D:wallbash:
     
  13. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    It's a pain. Its web access much more basic and limited than the flashy app as it appears in your link and slow to boot.
     
  14. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    I think he gave you a quite detailed and expansive rationale for his viewpoint. You choose not to accept it, for equally detailed and expansive reasons. I don't think that discussing feelings or personal motives is going to contribute anything useful.
     
  15. Daedelus

    Daedelus What's a Dremel?

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    I use OWA all the time. It isn't slow (unless you have shitty slow web server) and the web app looks exactly the same as the one in the screenshot. This is Outlook 2010.
     
  16. roland777

    roland777 What's a Dremel?

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    I've often heard people say to look at problems as challenges and as an opportunity to learn, but I'd never really experienced things that way until I started using linux. Things quite often will not run smoothly (or at all to begin with!), but the process of sorting these problems out has always been extremely rewarding.
     
  17. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    It's OK Nexxo, I didn't mind answering his question. It is pretty obvious I do have strong feelings on the issue so I don't blame him for wondering why. It's only natural.
     
  18. boiled_elephant

    boiled_elephant Merom Celeron 4 lyfe

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    I'm very pleased to see that this is one thing that literally all of us can agree on. Whichever side of the moral war you find yourself on (which is less like a war and more like a fight between neighbours over who owns the tree that's on their fence line), everyone can identify that the situation is a mess and that, if it were possible to start over, neither side would have it this way.

    Except those few pirates who're just anarchist 13-year-olds, I guess.

    If you read the thread you'd know (although given its size, I can't really blame you for not doing so). He is, among other things, a part-time software dev and/or OEM, I seem to remember. But that isn't necessarily relevant: I have no direct connections to piracy and its effects, but I still care about whether it happens or not because I like the games industry and I don't want it to go under or to resort to more godawful DRM restrictions. And while pirates only have a bit of pocket money to lose in this issue, developers have their entire business at stake, so if one party is going to change its ways first it will have to be pirates.

    I must say, though, I think moral preaching (a la this entire thread, no offense guys) is the worst way to deal with pirates. Even though it's heartfelt and honest and a reasonable response, it just provokes knee-jerk reverse psychology reactions in pirates: they get defensive and more stuck in their mindsets than ever, and are less and less likely to change their ways the more you make it a moral issue full of disapproval and condemnation.

    The right way to reason with people who genuinely see no wrong in piracy at all would be pratical reasoning - pointing out that piracy damages developers and will ultimately result in fewer games, worse games, higher prices and more DRM. That side of the issue is what convinces me, not the moral gravity, since I'm not a hugely moral person on any issue this domestic.
     
  19. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

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    My core business activity is providing contractual and Ad-Hoc IT support to SME and home users. I am also an OEM system builder, and retailer of a limited range of software (primarily OS'es, and business apps). I'm also a subbie with BT for home IT support and broadband/ TV/ phone installs. So piracy has only a limited effect on my business. I do see the effects though frequently enough to be concerned. It isn't just experience through my business that has formed my opinions, it is also personal experience too.
     
  20. roland777

    roland777 What's a Dremel?

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    Thanks, and I do appriciate your answer. I know that when we perceive an injustice (as in your example) it's very hard not to take it personally.
     

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