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Poll: Americans think atheists are worst than gays!

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Cthippo, 3 Apr 2006.

  1. offroadracer789

    offroadracer789 What's a Dremel?

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    seriously, almost nobody i know cares what religion someone is. There is one christian extremist girl in my school that quotes the bible out of text to try to disprove everyone that isnt in her religion, but everyone knows she is an idiot, and she only has one friend who is also in her religion. Its some sort of obscure christian faith.

    I seriously doubt the accuracy of this article. It seems to not be diverse enough.

    Anyways, my dad is atheist, while i am Catholic along with my sister and mom. I have nothing against any religion except for satanism. Those people are just plain out creepy.
     
  2. greensabbath

    greensabbath Got Wood?

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    I'm not offended so don't worry about that.

    1. Really, i don't give a crap whether there is a god or not so i've pretty much stopped thinking about it and i simply focus on being a just and fair person. I didn't say "good" or "nice" person because not everybody seems to deserve that treatment. I figure if there is a god or supreme being or something, and there is a heaven or whichever, living a good life will make up for not believing in it since i know many "believers" live much more sinful lives than mine.

    2. I over answered the 1st question and answered this one in there, i think.

    3. No, i don't go to any formal worshiping service but i do in a sense worship many things that i feel give me a sense of purpose. My main thing is wood and craftsmanship. Essentially its become my purpose to continue the dying art of hand craftsmanship of furniture (computer cases included) and other things and i mean with hand tools too, not machine. Eventually i hope to use only hand tools with everything i build. At the moment i'm single but eventually, my wife will also give me more of a purpose along with family and that stuff so i really don't need another source of purpose.
     
  3. TJK

    TJK What's a Dremel?

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    That's so bad - I think its horrible that people defame their own religion by trying to stick up for it. I am a strong believer that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Almighty God, but I'm not trying to quote passages to try to disprove everyone else. As a Christian, I am called by my God to respect others and not be judgemental. Judgement belongs to my God, not me. I wish it were easier to make people realize that maybe, if they accepted other people and their differences, that we could get a lot more done.

    Screaming at you that atheists are bad or catholics are bad or anything isnt going to solve anything. Its so frustrating to hear that this girl ^^^ does what she does and gives others a bad name.

    Anyway - I also dont believe many other religions are correct, but I am accepting of them and their believers. If that is what they chose, I can try to convert them, but I must accept them for who they are.
     
  4. Malvolio

    Malvolio .

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    Oh oh! I want to answer now! :p

    1. I could ask you the same thing: what about you makes you feel so small and empty that you have a need to fill that emptiness with something that has been entirely created and edited by man? Most of the bible (which is an entirely human-edited document) was written hundreds if not thousands of years after the events written about happened. At best, they're simple moral stories (though their moral application today is somewhat questionable: stoning people to death, anyone?)


    2. There isn't. Hell was almost entirely made up along the way as a deterrent for followers so that they wouldn't sin. But Wikipedia has much more on this. And on the same note, heaven was another creation by man for religious purposes (be good and go to this wonderful place full of fancy and wonder forever when you die!). Can you even fathom an eternity of pure excess and amazement?! For me that would be hell. Yeah, sure, nice at first, but after a few years you would get bored of it and after a while you would either lash out or go crazy.

    Hell is simply heaven after a couple of years ;)


    3. No, not at all. I try to find inner peace through real people, work, and activities. As strange as it may sound, wrenching on bikes, then channeling my anger and hatred for everything and everyone through the pedals is very calming and levels my head a lot. My inner peace, my "god" if you will, is my bike. It becomes part of me.

    I fully respect and love each and every bike I come into contact with. (creepy isn't it?)



    So, you can't grasp how people like us don't believe in a god? Good, I'm happy that you've found something you enjoy, and it's nice that you are not trying to convert us. I hope for you the best, and that you give up this fantasy to find out who you really are, so that you can connect with yourself without having to believe in a non-existent entity. :) (that came out a lot worse than it was meant!)

    Malf, although these are good, eloquent comments, can you throttle back on the confrontation a tiny bit (I know, look who's talking, but still...), --Nexxo

    [EDIT]Sorry Nexxo. I understand that it came out worse than it was meant, and I noted that. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find a better way to put the last remark, but still felt I needed to say it to get my point across. But I honestly didn't mean any offense :)[/EDIT]
     
    Last edited: 4 Apr 2006
  5. greensabbath

    greensabbath Got Wood?

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    ^^^^^^^ he said a lot of the things i actually think but didn't want to say in public forum bu i do agree, even with the bike part, cycling is amazing. On another note, although i think most (if not all) religions themselves are wrong, most of the moral teachings they teach are decent although their incentives (heaven, your on planet, virgins...depending on who you are) are just plain crazy, how about to be a nice person eh? I'm also very interested in different religions since they effect so many things in the world and I like to make fun of, or criticize them rather, but i don't like to be ignorant and criticize some part of a religion that really isn't true, which makes me want to learn more about them.
     
  6. rick

    rick What's a Dremel?

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    i have seen a documentery that rased similar points to that article about how in some highly religious areas of the us being an "out" atheist can lead to people loosing their jobs and become pretty much social outcasts in their communitys.

    i class myself as an atheist altho i do have beliefs. i belive that something did create the universe and i accept some people might choose to call this force "god" personally i dont. i dont belive that god created earth the way the bible says as fossils prove that plants and animals existed on earth before man even set foot on the plannet. i do belive in life after death but not in a heavan and hell way i belive that after death the body is dead and returns to where it came from but the soul lives on to be reborn in another living organism be it a plant, an animal or as another human. this in my mind also explains past lives.
    altho when this life is all over if i find myself stood at those pearly gates i'll be quite happy to accept i was wrong and at that point i'll ask god for forgivness for not beliving in him and him being a forgiving god he will and i'll kick back on a cloud with some hot angles for company for the rest of eternety.



    sorry for any bad spelling but its 5:10am atm and i'm not at my best
     
  7. Cthippo

    Cthippo Can't mod my way out of a paper bag

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    I can honestly say that I have never questioned my purpose, or even felt a need to have a purpose. Life is, I am, I see no higher purpose in it. I can see how believing in a purpose could make one more fulfilled if they felt they were moving towards such a purpose, but I don't think that's the same as actually having one.

    I think part of the difference stems from an ethnocentric or species-centric world view. Does a rock have purpose? Does a snail? or a monkey? Most peope would say no. On the other hand, many people feel that humans are superior to all other forms of matter, living or not, and therefore they should have some higher purpose. I personbally don't think that I am any "better" than the tree growing in my front yard which is both bigger and older than I am. I have no problem with the idea that humans evolved from monkeys because I don't see a lot of difference now. To badly paraphrase Douglas Adams, "Humans thought they were the smartest creatures on the planet and offered up cities and cars and nuclear power as evidence of this. The dolphins knew they were the smarter species for the same reasons".

    I'm glad to know that there is an end to life. Sure being alive is ok, but everything gets old after a while and to me it's comforting to know that eventually I won't have to put up with this BS anymore, that I'll be dead and they'll do somthing with what's left.

    I think religion feeds on the universal human insecurity. no one is truly happy with who they are and we all want to be somthing else, perhaps "better". Religion tells people that they are created in God's image, that they are the "Children of God " and that God cares about them and has a plan for them, even if they don't know what it is. I accept that I am what I am and that this is all that I am. I don't believe that I am inherently superior to other life forms or that I was created in the image of some superior being. I am a byproduct of evolution and enviroment, an unimportant ant on a global anthill.

    There are a couple of fundamental things about religion that bother me. The first is that it requires taking many things on faith. I understand that living in society requires a certain amount of faith to keep the whole thing going, but I feel that it should be kept to a minimum and constantly questioned. Religion on the other hand, and I'm speaking of almost all religions here, so don't feel I'm picking on anyone, require their adherents to accept a lot of things as truth such as the existance of God and the inherent truth of their holy book, whatever it may be. I believe in questioning everything and accepting as little on faith as possible. THat's why I appreciate the threads here on BT questioning history such as the 9/11 and moon landing threads. No matter how sure we are of somthing, I think it's fundamentally healthy to question it and examine why we are so sure it's correct. I think any subject should be fair game for discussion regardless of who it might offend.

    The other issue I have with religion is that it can lead to horrible abuses. THis is less a failing of religion itself but rather a fundamental flaw in the human makeup. Once people start believing that they are better than something else, they begin to feel that it is their right to subjugate the "lesser" entity. I think we can agree that a LOT of evil has been committed in the name of religion throughout history. Does that mean that modern believers are wrong or evil? Of course not. But as long as people believe they are "better" than someone else, the potential is there.
     
  8. Da_BaCoN

    Da_BaCoN Minimodder

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    Growing up in a Christian home and going to a private Christian school from kindergarten to 12th grade, I've always been an "on-and-off" Christian so to speak. But my last 2 years of high school (especially the very last) I finally decided it's all nonsense and I'm an open atheist. They only people who don't know are parts of my family - they're very devote Chrisitains and I'm sure they'll try to "re-convert" me. However, if any of them ever ask me, I will most definitely tell them I'm an Atheist. I just don't feel the need to run around proclaiming it (especially when it'll just give me a headache :D :hehe: )
     
  9. greensabbath

    greensabbath Got Wood?

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    I have to say its pretty clear that humans aren't "superior" to anything else even if we can make up a bunch of stuff to "justify an existance that is without meaning or purpose" (name that movie for bonus points). I actually beleive the tree in front of my house is probably superior to me, or at least it is more worthy of respect and i also think eventually nature will take over again and knock us back on our a$$es, we're setting ourselves up for it, either that or the rise of the machines.... i'm not crazy, just watch a lot of movies
     
  10. Faind

    Faind What's a Dremel?

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    Reguardless of what the eight people who live in Minnesota think, the rest of the country will poll much diffrent... well any state thats not part of the "bible belt"

    Besides any good christian will forgive and pray for his neighbor, and let god be the judge, as is his devine right so sayith the bible.

    "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding."

    I'm not Christian so don't think I'm preaching, but I am literate and I do understand the customs of my neighbors both the ones I agree with and the ones that I don't.
     
  11. tacticus

    tacticus What's a Dremel?

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    "this is not a test this is the whole ball game" nfi who said it but it works
     
  12. Da_BaCoN

    Da_BaCoN Minimodder

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    First Matrix? (Agent Smith to Morpheus IIRC)
    </off topic>
     
  13. GiGo

    GiGo was once a nerd.....

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    Religion is BS! there aint no all seeing, all powerfull "god" figure, religion is crap!

    Look at the science behind life on earth, nuth said, sorry if I offened anyone.

    Regards
    GiGo
     
  14. .308AR

    .308AR What's a Dremel?

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    More room for me if you choose hell...:D
     
  15. greensabbath

    greensabbath Got Wood?

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    __Still off topic__ you are correct sir, well, i can see where u got it from, but i actually took that from the 3rd matrix (agent smith to Neo at the end)
     
    Last edited: 4 Apr 2006
  16. Ramble

    Ramble Ginger Nut

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    Honestly, that is the most thoughtless thing said here. I agree with you for the most part, I think that there is no God, and that everything is scientifically explainable, however, I don't think that 'religion is crap'.

    Granted, religion is terrible when it affects normal people to behave in a violent way (extremist terrorists, The Crusades, etc.); however, religion does have a place in this world, and it's a great thing when it teaches people to respect and love their neighbor.

    Your half the reason there is distrust in this world and between faiths, people must learn to "step inside someone elses skin and walk around in it".
     
  17. greensabbath

    greensabbath Got Wood?

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    I agree, one of religion's most important roles that i can see is helping people to get through hard times that otherwise would do them in. I guess it gives them some reason to be when they really have none and even though their reason is a little eh, it works for them.
     
  18. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    1. There is no evidence to support His existence. Of course, there is no evidence to negate His existence, but that means the bottom line is that we don't know whether he exists.

    That leaves us with belief. Beliefs serve a function in making sense of our world and informing our actions. In my worldview, a belief in God is not necessary (although I have my own personal imagination of what He'd be like if he does exist), although some sort of philosophical/metaphysical framework to inform one's existence is essential to healthy human functioning. In your case a belief in God may be central to your world view. That is fine. My worldview is not better than yours or vice-versa; they are just different, and each suited to our respective psychological needs.

    2. I tend to think that in the end, we judge and sentence ourselves. The heaven or hell we create is in our own head and our own lives.

    3. I do not worship anything or anyone. I may appreciate, respect or be awestruck or inspired by. I have a sense of wonder. But worship, in my opinion, is not a very healthy dynamic/relationship (again, just my view).
     
  19. Xenred

    Xenred What's a Dremel?

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    Nope, I just dont believe in heaven or hell, so in my view, I aint going. :thumb:
     
  20. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    Just to play Devil's advocate here (ironic term, given the nature fo the debate), I just stumbled on this article at Yahoo! News: Apparently regular church attendance may increase your life expectancy. I question the scientific validity of the results. The same goes for the article in the original post over in this thread. Religion isn't something that you can really quantify with results, nor do I think it's really supposed to be.

    I think the importance of religion has been pointed out in the numerous similar threads we've seen in the recent past, and it was lightly touched upon in the article I linked. Religion, if nothing else, offers hope. Science gives us the how, religion gives us the why. The two are not entirely mutually exclusive.

    I'm glad that a lot of you are so content in your everyday lives that you can find the happiness and a sense of belonging outside of the church, but I don't understand how it is so bad that some people find their happiness and sense of belonging inside. Malfoleo mentioned that he found peace in "real people, work, and activities," and went on to hope that TJK "give up this fantasy."

    I understand that the words came out worse than intended, but I would like to point out that church and religion is more than just a bunch of people mindlessly sitting around, worshipping God. Churches are made up of real people, and they offer a lot of very real activities and help to other real people. (I'm sure Malf used "real" in reference to God, but hopefully you get my point) It's very easy to take any evangelist on TV and decry the evils of religion. It's also easy to take the terrorist on TV and decry the evils of Muslims. Unfortunately, in both cases, the majority of the people are completely overlooked, and the focus is instead placed on the extremist as the norm.

    I suppose my point is that the average churchgoer is far from the Bible-beating, weak-minded, fool that so many of you make him out to be. He usually is just content to be who he is and let you be who you want to be.

    I have an honest question for some of the Atheists out there. Quite a few of the Atheists I've known over the years were quick to proclaim the fact that they were Atheist, and they usually followed it up by saying "but my friends and family don't know; they wouldn't understand (or) they would just try to convert me." Is it really that difficult to confide in your own friends and family that you share a different belief structure? No ill intent implied, it was just something I always wondered. It almost seemed like being Atheist was something to be ashamed of, or something they felt they had to hide from others.

    edit: Oops, I referenced the wrong thread in the first paragraph, but it still makes sense.

    -monkey
     
    Last edited: 4 Apr 2006

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