What a pathetic final statement is that, seriously? So you can explain why he shouldn't come, yet me explaining why he should come means I am not letting you expressing your feelings. And the last statement is just awful really. You think I honestly care about the Pope? I'm not religious in anyway, but it's all well and good other countries paying out for our leaders to visit other countries. Yet a leader from another country visits this country it's disgusting? Grow up.
I think this was the phrase that stuck in my mind when I posted the reply you just quoted. You really do seem to be taking what I said personally. i expressed my feelings on the topic, and you used that phrase which I think is trying to be derogatory. You seem to try and force your opinions across, noticed it in other threads. I have been guilty of the same in the past, but I am trying to be more open and respectful of others opinions. Maybe you should try it sometime too.
Rich, with a thread full of derogatory statements throughout it, even offending a Catholic member. And as I said, I'm not religious at all. How could I take it personally. I just think it's rich how you seem to ignore what happens in other countries on visits from heads of state's, yet don't mention at all it happens for us. And as I said, just because you don't agree with where the money is spent, doesn't mean everyone share's your view. You need to realise your view doesn't equal the countries. You don't seem to take on board what is a positive aspect of taxes to the population. You don't seem to think what positives it has on local businesses from the huge crowds he gathers. You just think how does it affect you, not how does it affect the population as a whole. EDIT: Seen your edit. I'm the one trying to force opinions onto other people? I, the one who stands alone in a corner standing up for apple as people who have heard about someone who used an old Mac and had troubles with it automatically makes it an awful product, although they themselves never tried the product, they themselves just read the media from other anti-apple users and feed off it.
Would you like to point out where I have been derogatory to Roman Catholics, or even the Pope? I also did apologise to M7ck for his feeling insulted by others posters here. It certainly seems like you are bruising for a fight, and I am sorry to disappoint you but it isn't happening. I also made it perfectly clear that all opinions expressed were my own, I never said I expected everyone else to feel the same, and I also welcomed others opinions. I did not attack anyone who challenged my own. EDIT: Just read your edit, as I said you are not getting a fight, so say what you want, it's all good.
No, your opinion is on how the money is being wasted, without mention of any money that may be gained by it. The Pope would bring in much more money than say if Sarckhozy went on a trip around Britian. Not sure what would be the situation on Obama with how xenophobic he has been recently, and alienating Britain, but before that when he was popular, I'd say he was probably the only Head of State from another country to bring more the economy than the Pope would. I bet you, if this was before the allegations of Child Abuse then this wouldn't even be mentioned in the Media.
Sorry Pieface, but I am choosing not to continue this discussion with you as I highly suspect that the first thing I say that you disagree with will only result in more of the same as already seen here. It's not a cop out or me evading the questions you have raised, because I would like to discuss this rationally. I have been drawn into too many arguments before, so this time I am walking away before it gets to that.
While I agree that the host country should foot the security costs and other miscellaneous costs associated with a visit of a foreign dignitary, I don't agree with the 'amount' being spent here. Especially not with the way the economy is at the moment and the Pope's attack on the equality laws (See here) and other such issues. There is a campaign to get the Pope arrested when he visits the UK, I have mixed feelings about that but it'll be interesting to see if that unfolds. (Link) I had a quick google and the most expensive trip like this I could find was the Queen visiting Ireland at a rough estimated cost of 8m euros (source) Also, the £12m estimate doesn't actually include security costs. (source)
On last nights Scottish news they reported the catholic church in Scotland was covering part of the cost of his visit north of the border. From the BBC website.
Cabe6403 raises an interesting point. Whether viewed as a religious leader or a head of state, the Pope is a public figure who advocates homophobic views and has been complicit in the cover up of child sexual abuse in his organisation (when he was archbishop of Munich and when he headed the Vatican's doctrinal office, he allowed a priest to resume pastoral work with children even while receiving therapy for paedophilia. He was subsequently convicted of abusing minors. In addition, a case has come to light in which his deputy at the Vatican doctrinal office told Wisconsin bishops to quash a church trial for a priest alleged to have abused up to 200 deaf boys). The visit of any other political head of state with a similar human rights track record would meet with at least some controversy.
Welcome him with open arms. Then arrest him as we would for anyone else involved with covering up the sexual abuse of children.
One positive thing that may come from this is a higher number of visits to the UK from turists and people of faith, this may bring some money to your system.
THIS, If it was anybody else they'd be locked up, hes not special just a mere human like the rest of us imo.
It's funny. Pope says not to use condoms as god will look after those that believe in him. Yet pope himself is driven around in bullet proof popemobile and looked after by an army of police/security. Go figure how I much value pope and religions. At the very least the church should pay for pope's backpacking. Not everyone wants him in the country, even fewer care about him, why should all pay?
Sorry if i offended anyone but the argument against the queen and American president just don't add up. The queen cost about 65 million a year but brings in at least 10 times that in tourists and the Americans pay for most of the presidents security costs, and any money we pay out is recouped pretty quickly from trade agreements and tourism based on his visit. The pope is the head of state of a practically non-existent country which has no real economy and cant offer any sort of trade agreements.
That last sentance is a little wide of the mark. Fame is pretty irrelevant, and as for power, the President of the US is the only one that comes close. The Queen only retains her powers on the basic assumption that she doesn't use them, and even then, the UK lags behind countries like Russia and China for power / GDP etc. The Pope / Vatican isn't close by any comparable standard.
I can understand the paying for the visits of foreign dignitaries, but frankly I don't understand why it costs £12000000. I can visit Italy for a week for less than £1000; just what makes it cost 12000 times more?
Agreed. Its not remotely hard to understand why it costs £12 million (just look at police overtime alone), but its pretty hard to understand why we should pay it. Lets look at some hard facts about the Pope. 1) He is inherently homophobic and a bigot, which is completely against the views of the vast majority of the general public and government of this country 2) He has indirectly contributed to widespread child abuse world wide 3) He has indirectly contributed to the deaths of millions of Catholics in Africa by forbidding the use of condoms, thus increasing the rapid spread of HIV And those were just off the top of my head.
Are you serious man? The Catholic Church is one of the most powerful organisations in the world and the pope as the head of the church is an extremely powerful man. There are over a billion Roman Catholics in the world (not just Vatican City) and yet you say he isn't comparable to the US president and the Queen?
