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Project F.E.A.R.

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by The_Pope, 9 Jun 2005.

  1. Da Dego

    Da Dego Brett Thomas

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    Ok guys,

    First...A mod is a mod is a mod, whether it be vinyl stickers or Orac. Each is worthy in its own way. Under the timeline, budget, and complaince with an outside party, you did a great job, Geoff. Not to my personal taste, but given what you had to work with, it was a great job.

    What may be at issue here, though (that nobody has really come out and said directly), is that this is in no way article material. I am now saying great job to Geoff the same way I would to any other starting modder, a pat on the back for doing something that may well be groundbreaking to them, but has been seen and done previously to most of the community. Worse is that it ISN'T groundbreaking to Geoff, or any of the bit team. The different or lacking complexity (however you want to say it, I would say differing...I want to see some of these people work competently in a PS file that big) doesn't make it less of a mod, but it DOES reduce its effectiveness as a modding article.

    Whether or not it was difficult, complicated, whatever, by your own admissions this is no Orac, no dark crystal, no metaversa, no black mesa. Therefore, had it been built, quietly handed to vivendi, and a little post thrown in the project logs forum saying "we did this over the weekend for a little project vivendi handed us," we wouldn't be where we are now with staff/mods arguing against their very community.

    Your community views those "Modding" article pages as sacred ground, and that may be why you're getting such bad responses. I would even say Vivendi is getting a little bad press from this. The article (and your further defense of your choice of mod) makes Vivendi look cheap and inflexible, unwilling to donate the time or the money for your real talents that have been so apparent for so many years. Makes me wonder how they treat their programmers, come to think of it...

    Overall, I think what might be upsetting people is that this has graced the halls of the true "article" pages, when there are longer, more well thought out projects just kicking in our project logs forums. It makes it look like either (1) what bit staff does is more important regardless of its merits, or (2) we have declined so much in raw talent that this is honestly the best we could write an article about.

    Once again, Geoff, I think you did a very good job on this with what you had, and Nexxo's point is very valid here with the cooking...mastery is in repeatability no matter what the conditions. But that doesn't make it article worthy, and that needs to be recognized. Unless, of course, the article was "Modding on a shoestring, a wish, and a weekend."
     
  2. The_Pope

    The_Pope Geoff Richards Super Moderator

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    Welcome to the bit-tech forums, dutchcedar.

    I think you misunderstood my comment about Orac: "frankly ridiculous level of detail" is a compliment. It's like saying there is an "insane attention to detail" - that doesn't mean I think Pete is crazy - it's is an enthusiast way of saying "a lot"

    Da_Rude_Baboon: I understand your comments, but I think quack understands things: it's not "us" and "them" - it's a party that everyone is invited to. There's no benefit in nitpicking about what is an in-house mod and what is "forum members propping up the site" to paraphrase your comments.

    Piloux may not have an entry on the Team page, but he's certainly considered one of the family: we've hosted I think four of his projects now, and he is busy on his next one. I will arrange a large proportion of his hardware through sponsorship, and the worklog will be exclusively hosted on bit-tech - you don't get much more "in-house" than that.

    I will freely admit that we have been missing projects from existing staff members in recent months: Eddie the Dane has one project in progress, and is working together with Macro on something VERY big, and no doubt "worthy"; WMD is still in production.

    Just because we haven't revealed details of certain projects on the site at this early stage doesn't mean the boys aren't hard at work on the kind of mods you want to see on bit-tech. But the simple math of it is that there are only a handful of guys capable of doing the work, and the work takes time.

    Project F.E.A.R. was not done for financial gain to keep the site alive - there is no case of "lowering" ours standards in order to pay the bills. It was just a bit of fun that I was able to do myself, and considering I'm only an Editor and NOT a modder, I'm quite pleased with the outcome.

    At the end of the day (and it REALLY is - 3:25am here), there's no sense in arguing about it: I'm happy if you feel it's a piece of crap because it was never intended to be anything more than it is: a simple, low cost mod that's on-budget and won't break in the post. Will we have more intricate mods in the future? Yes. Do we value our community members and their opinons? Absolutely! I wouldn't be here if we didn't.
     
  3. The_Pope

    The_Pope Geoff Richards Super Moderator

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    Damn lag: I'll reply to Da Dego just quickly, then I *have* to get some sleep.

    I think I understand a little better now: I didn't quite appreciate that being a full article on bit-tech was seen as validation like "this mod is *truely* outstanding". I mean, yes we feature top community mods on the site from time to time, and the regular-type mods remain in the Worklog forum.

    But what I'm only now realising is that some of you feel that because Project F.E.A.R. was written up that that was some sort of statement that I / we felt it was "better" than the projects in the Forums. Because clearly that is not the case! Even Stevie Wonder would agree that a mere CaseSkin project isn't even remotely as l33t as half the stuff in the Worklogs done by you guys.

    The reality is that writing up Project F.E.A.R. was a no-brainer for me because a) I could do all the work myself and b) it's some extra PR for Vivendi and the game. I'll say it again: it should not be construed as any kind of endorsement that this mod is any better than any other mod.

    I am always open to featuring Worklogs on the main site: with all my other duties, I often don't spend as much time as I should hanging out there, checking out all the latest work from you guys. But please: if you see (or indeed, create) anything that you feel should be showcased on the site as part of an article, or even a news item, don't hesitate to email me: geoff.richards@bit-tech.net

    I'm more than happy to work with you to put together an article: I can't promise fame & glory, but you'll certainly be noticed on a global scale, and several modders have gone on to secure features in print magazines, even being paid for it.
     
  4. Da Dego

    Da Dego Brett Thomas

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    NOW I think we're at least all reading from the same page. If we can all translate it the same, I think we'll be doing alright. :)

    Geoff, I would have to say that in honor of some of the other outstanding works, this article should seriously be up for "recall..." and rewritten for the project logs. I understand that it's easy for you to write things up, after all you are the editor and it seems like a good and easy thing to say "here's what I've been up to." But you're walking on some hallowed ground, and you picked a bad place to try for a little "extra PR for Vivendi." I know Black Mesa had a writeup, but that's because it was exquisite detail and an amazing, original concept...not just because it was HL2 (at least, I'd hope so). There's a lot of traffic that passes through the project logs...I just think this may be better suited there, it will make it a little bit more palatable for everyone involved.

    If there are some massive, wonderful works by Eddie and Piloux and Macro that you can't put up in articles yet, just leave the space for them. We'll be happy to wait for great mods if we must, but the true articles are really for the groundbreakers IMHO...You said so yourself, the articles are for global-scale notice. Now think, did this *really* belong there? That's the stuff that represents bit-tech to the world, and we all owe it to the modding scene in general to keep putting the most innovative, jaw-dropping projects out where they can be seen, not putting out PR for something that's not even payin' the bills.

    Edit: and for god's sakes, go to bed! :hehe:
     
    Last edited: 10 Jun 2005
  5. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    True, but it takes a lot of effort to fill up a front page with new material every week. If Bit-Tech concentrated only on posting/writing about really outstanding mods or projects, then you would get an update perhaps every few months or so, and people would complain that they "never see any new stuff".

    I think that the article just is a nice illustration of what can be done with casewraps (and how to design, plan and apply them), should people be interested to incorporate some in their mods. Nothing more, nothing less; just take it at face value. You simply cannot expect an Orac 3 or Black Mesa every week; that's crazy. That sort of thing takes a lot of time and money, and frankly people have lives to get be getting on with and costs of living to pay for. So patience is a virtue.

    People may (reasonably) feel that the project was not "article worthy", but I think that sort of depends on your point of view. If you want articles to be about blow-your-socks-off mods only, perhaps not. If you want articles to illustrate a range of diverse aspects of modding, then perhaps it is. Horses for courses.
     
  6. Da Dego

    Da Dego Brett Thomas

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    Nexxo, I see and agree with most of your point, but... (isn't there always a but? :))

    There is already a case-wrap article in kna's project synapse, no? This ground doesn't need to be covered yet again.

    For the modding section, yeah, there will be a slower amount of big articles up there. For me, this is better...it shows Bit-tech doesn't just put up the good ones...we are the hub for the GREAT ones. It IS crazy to expect an Orac every week. But we don't...Remember, the old site flourished with the same old case mods being up there for YEARS. :) I can't remember for how long I looked at that HTPC case with the blue bit-tech logo on top. We're still here, and so's the site. Quality speaks for itself.

    True, horses for courses, and all that, but if we want to look at some of the things that can be done, call it that and throw it in as a review, like "here's a project we built with them." Or make it a story (I personally like my title of "a shoestring, a wish, and a weekend," but I'm biased). Or whatever. But don't call it a case project, because the case projects featured on the front page live up to something greater...they're not about 'well, you can use it like this...'

    Otherwise, I can help find you content every week. Heck, you want to go through the logs and pull a project out? Doesn't have to be innovative, original, or even good...just pick one, write a story, and put it up front.

    The moral of this very large exaggeration, of course, is that a mod doesn't NEED to be up there every week. There are reviews of modding products to write, conventions to visit, and (eek!) how-to guides!!!! And really a bit of blank space once in a while is far better than just throwing anything up there...that is the way to the dark side of pushing quantity instead of quality. If anything, there are now a bunch of other things that bit-tech covers...so there's some wiggle room.

    Maybe we as a community could be suggesting possible modding articles, to help figure out what could fill this space and prevent this from happening again? Again, this isn't meant to be a knock on the project, but that there's other things we could do that would still keep featured case mods exactly that, and emphasize the awesome skills of our community's best.

    Just my $0.02. That and another $1 can maybe gat you a cup of coffee. ;)
     
  7. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Great idea. :thumb:
    Make mine an espresso. Double. :D
     
  8. Da Dego

    Da Dego Brett Thomas

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    So where should we start that thread, perhaps? Modding? Mod guides? It should be somewhere visible...I just think our "Modding" front page section could be expanded with some healthy how-to's and reviews if we need more frequent eye candy.

    Might I humbly request the first 'how-to' being a basic useful digital electronics, like qprox sensors? Gets asked a lot, and will give ol' Zap something to do for a minute...he's been too quiet lately. ;)
     
  9. dutchcedar

    dutchcedar What's a Dremel?

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    Aye, makes sense.

    FWIW, I'm Pete too... and rumor has it I am crazy... :D

    Oh, and thanks... :thumb:
     
  10. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    How about in "Feedback"? There is already a "What do you want to see Bit-Tech mod next" thread, but perhaps that needs cleaning up a bit, and perhaps we need a more general suggestions thread.
     
  11. Cowinacape

    Cowinacape What's a Dremel?

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    Getting back to the mod it's self....

    While I'll admit I was looking forward too seeing more of a "mod" than just the case wrap. The article does present a good idea of what can be done with such products, leaving only our imagination to limit us.

    And I know sure as h**l, if I was to try the same mod, I'd be forever trying to get out all the little bubbles that would undoubtedly be showing themselves in the weeks afterwards. As was mentioned earlier in this thread it also offers a very viable option to custom paint jobs as well. Not to sound to much like a fanboy, but keep up the good work! I amy not be thrilled an amazed buy every article I read here but you are running at a good 95% and that ain't bad :)
     
  12. zr_ox

    zr_ox Whooolapoook

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    Are you mad??

    If BIT-TECH cant cater to its target audience...there will be no more BIT-TECH

    What are you thinking??

    It's funny how this has developed, a real love or hate mod! Its turned a usually friendly crowd against each other. I still am not a fan but I am entitled to that. I cannot help thinking that those who are rating this highly are going against their better judgement. Its just one gigantic step back in time and does nothing foe the enthusiast crowd here. The skin is the type of thing you would expect to see in a TINY showroom, not on a modding enthusiast site?

    In the same time frame I'm sure you could have found a professional airbrush artist to do something....better. The fact that you have wrapped up that Lian-Li case in sticky glove just seems daft. The H&D 2 mod was a reasonably quick mod, wasnt it? That looks great.

    I do think that you guys do an incredible job, and have built an amazing community....but maybe you have bitten of a little more than you can chew with all of the new content (I better find a chair to hide under).

    We are the readers and supporters of the site, there is nothing wrong with expecting something a little more special...is there?
     
  13. WilHarris

    WilHarris Just another nobody Moderator

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    Guys, chill a little.

    Bit-tech is never going to abandon hardcore modding - if you could see what we're working on right now, you'd drool yourself into a mess.

    But why not have some 'lite' projects as well?

    Frankly we could have done this, given it to Vivendi and that would be the end of it, but we thought you guys might like to take a look into a quick job that we did.

    Macro, Eddie and Gnome have some great stuff in the works, but all of it takes time. In the meantime, would you rather we didn't publish anything? Would you rather we didn't talk to forumers and write up their mods with them?
     
  14. invalid

    invalid What's a Dremel?

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    Go back a bit and read my post. I said that directly.

    But as usual, my posts are ignored until someone else brings up the same points. Is this because I do not have an avatar? lol :wallbash:
     
  15. [Tom]

    [Tom] Minimodder

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    I think it looks great! I don't know what 2005 has done to the forum- it's brought a new air of hostility to almost every thread there is.
     
  16. GigantoR

    GigantoR What's a Dremel?

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    I completely understand the concept behind this case. Its a quick efficient mod that was done for a purpose, and it served that purpose. Somebody brought up the point of the case giveaway and how most people who go "Oooh sweet!" and enter one of these contests, are not the same ones that look at that case and go "Hmm, the could have thrown in a few blowholes, some fans, maybe a watercooling system..."and so on. This case was made as a publicity tool, not an homage to modding. Not trying to discount the effort that went into it as I know how much of a skill PhotoShop is and I also like the use of the cardboard masking behind the CaseSkin.

    I think pehaps we may have become a bit spoiled with all the wonderful mods that have come out recently. We keep seeing bigger and better and wilder things, so when something comes out that doesn't top it, there is a sense fo disappointment in it. Most of us have started on other forums and made our way here because this is one of if not the strongest modding communities around. We have heightened expectations because we think that all the best come here to show off.

    I see it in the way some people respond to new modder's first attempts. When they crookedly dremel out that first blowhole and and up with a spotty spray can paintjob but still present it to us smiling from ear to ear because it is THEIR MOD, I think some of us overlook that we were once there, heck I am still there. I am much better than I was, but man I can butcher things quite nicely still.

    The_Pope stated that he is an editor, and NOT a modder. I don't know his modding experience, but he obviously had fun with this project and thought it was important enough to show us. Who cares if it isn't Orac or Black Mesa or any number of amazing mods that we have seen. To the creator, its a mod, and it is important, and we should have respect for that, and urge them on.
     
  17. alextwo

    alextwo <a href="http://forums.bit-tech.net/showpost.php?p

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    I for one would much rather see these great 'lite' mods on Bit-tech than an empty front page. Moding doesn't always have to involve a dremel or some other multitude of powertools and I'm glad that Bit-tech show this type of mod that involves some different and equally impressive (IMO) skills to create a great mod given the constraints.
     
  18. jezmck

    jezmck Minimodder

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    I'm seeing it as a valuable how-to for 'skins', and if it had been named as such in the first place this whole thread wouldn't have been so bitchy. why should a thread's listed purpose make such a difference?
     
  19. Haddy

    Haddy World Domination

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    This was a sponsored project with a budget and timescale involved. Very few clients have big budgets (not for thier ideas anyway) and want it yesterday and this is the same for any industry just about.

    Could more have been done to this case? You bet.
    Could more have been done to Orac? You bet.

    Theres always more you can do on any build, but remeber this one had a timescale and a budget that prevented this. I for one love the simplicity of the case not everything needs staggering detail to be a decent project.

    Im one of those advacates of "If you dont like it you know where the back button is."
     
  20. Zidane

    Zidane What's a Dremel?

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    sooooo.....

    now it looks like all the arguing has calmed down.....

    The_Pope, where did you see the tutorial for this type of blood?

    [​IMG]

    ive been searching on google and not seen anything like it (although, considering the number of ps tuts out there, i doubt i will find it unless i match your search terms exactly).

    ive been trying all night to get that effect after seeing it in that picture, so far the closest i have come is a clouds->glowing edges->plastic wrap->hue/saturation. it looks good, but not as good as the one in that image. any chance of a linky to the how-to for it?

    <article-related rant>

    dont flame, im just saying....

    is a plastic sticker any less of a mod than a custom airbrushed mirror-polished titanium case? is adding a fan to your pc any less of a mod than adding a triple headed phase change cooling system with matching watercooling system? is drilling a hole and sticking some perspex in the side of your case any less of a mod than building a custom lexan demon-shaped window complete with inset led's for glowing eyes?

    no, a mod is a mod. sure, you can go to the lengths of orac, or you can just find a way to bolt an extra fan on your case. not all of us are capable of taking things to the extreme, be that because of time, money or just plain lack of skill! (I, for instance, could never have painted that design freehand..... but i could have put it together in photoshop and had it printed).

    the mod might not be the greatest thing youve ever seen, but when you consider it was done in a few days, for $60, its an excellent mod compared to what could have been done.

    as for whether or not its "article worthy"..... yes, yes it is. before today i didnt know what case-skins were, and had settles back in resignation to having my case the black its always been. i cant paint or draw, i simply dont have that level of skill. i *can* however, spend a day in photoshop and make something that looks awesome.... then have it printed..... then stick it on. the article was not "look how good we are", the article was not "look how amazing this box is", the article was "we had a week and $60, this is what we did with it, what do you think of it?". the article seems reminiscant of a first-time modder, an editor who spends all day writing about this stuff, and finally got a go at actually doing some of it. instead of lambasting him for being "unworthy" of bit-tech, why havent we welcomed him into the world of modding?

    to be frank, if you dont like the article, then the next time Bit-Tech get offered a job like this, why dont you go running on down to their offices, waving a blank cheque and then you can cover the cost of getting the images approved, getting the materials, getting the artist to paint it, then getting it to the end-user on time...... oh, and whilst your at it, why not add a few extra hours into the day so you actually have the time to do all that.

    VoidedWarranty was almost right. but it isnt 'bitchyness' that he has seen, its elitism. these days it seems like the only thing people care about are who did which mod first, or whether a mod is "worthy". how many times do you read a thread and hear someone say they arnt going to tell us their plan in case someone "steals their idea", or seen some guy post about a new fan he's added to his system, only to be "scolded" because its blue, or his cable-management is less than perfect. theres the constant nit-picking and snide remarks about each thing a person does, always highlighting the negative instead of praising the positive. who cares? i dont. i dont care if i dont like a mod or not (i would, for example, rather gouge my eyes out with a rusty spoon, than have g-nomes orac sat in my living room). it doesnt matter if *I* like a mod, it matters if *you* like *your* mod. g-nome loves his orac, when i saw it, i looked at it for what it was, and yes, i think its a great mod, i think he accomplished everything he set out to do with style, skill and amazing attention to detail. he got what he wanted out of it, and he is happy with it. i dont like it, but i dont have to be, he made it, he showed the world, he is happy with it. i like black boxes, with minimal decoration (maybe a little red or silver accent), im quite looking forward to having a case-skin sticker thing printed with the design i want on it. if you dont like that, i dont care, i do.

    ive ranted enough for today, but i leave you with one last thought..... if you think you can do better, why are you sitting here flaming the author, instead of actually doing what you boast? words without action are just words.

    </rant>
     
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