Project: FrozenFire (MORE!! Watercooling changes Sep 8 05)

//edit - ack forgot to resize, like I said I'm still a bit off. just click the links for now

Ok, I'm back and getting settled back in. A bit sore and sunburned but all is well and good

As I mentioned in my previous post, I got a 6800 block in the mail while I was gone. So what else to do but to plumb it in?


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/Firehed/IMG_1941.jpg
Things are a bit messy inside, but it's installed

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/Firehed/IMG_1942.jpg
And a semi-nightshot

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/Firehed/IMG_1943.jpg
You can see the tight turn to the other graphics card (I only got one 6800 block, as you can tell)

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/Firehed/IMG_1944.jpg
And another shot of it

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/Firehed/IMG_1945.jpg
Don't ask about the IDE cable... but you can see the current setup of the "upper half" of the loop

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/Firehed/IMG_1946.jpg
The "lower half" hasn't changed a whole lot, although the CSP-MAG has been plumbed in. Oddly... the second one still hasn't shown up. I need some other parts before it's all how I want - it'll end up as dual loops sharing a single res.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y66/Firehed/IMG_1947.jpg
Hmmm... off-center? Yep. I'm going to have an Aquajet on either side of the Aquatube, instead of a single in the center. Should give an interesting effect

Unfortunately, several of the things I need are on backorder until later this month (such as the second aquajet) and I need some things that aren't watercooling-related as well.

 

I see you placed the acrylic logo from Aqua Computer the other way around in the 6800 block. I will have to do that too otherwise it will be upside down in the Lian Li case. Was it easy to do? I will also have to replace the blue LED by a green one I realize now. Can I just open the top of the block to get the acrylic out?

 

I thought it was a bit tricky - it's wedged in there fairly well. I had to poke at it with a small screwdriver to get it out. Just a big tip - don't pull out the main gasket, it's REALLY hard to get back into place and have it stay there (I had to fill the "channel" it sits in with water first so it would kinda stick in place while I put the lid back on).

So far the list of stuff I plan to get is as follows (use your imagination on what's happening if it's not obvious):
A64 X2 4400+
Logitech z5500 Speakers
Aqua Comp. APE120 fan grill
Aquajet
Misc LEDs (mostly white, possibly a couple blue), holders of some sort
Misc screws (socket cap variety like what I've been using)
*possibly* 2nd 6800-specific block
Aquaero VFD (plus accessories, least critical so it would come last)
probably something else I've forgotten about

and just for fun, managed to get in the local paper on the day we had a 119f (>48c) heat index. And that pic (had no idea it was being taken lol) was before the opening show when we were all in "Class A" uniforms, where over 800 (!!) people ended up in the med tent for dehydration and heat exhaustion.

 

Eric, found that second pot, i'll get it in the mail to you soon.

 

Glad to see you back to work Firehed..A64 X2 sounds good..as does the Aqua-Computer Aquaero..

 

[chant]
Aquaero Aquaero Aquaero Aquaero
AquagraFX AquagraFX AquagraFX
[/chant]

Glad to see you back alive and no singed haircuts walking around with a dazed look.

 

Oh I'd be more than happy to order everything I need right now, but the problem is, of course, $$$. If you'd care to add a bit to my modding funds, PM me and I can send you my paypal address

I've already changed the plumbing a bit since I posted those pics - stuck in an old black ice pro into the loop as well to see what it did for temps (the card with the new block seems quite a bit warmer, although that could be realted to either the ram adding heat or more likely my lack of doing the thermal compound the "right" way as I was in a hurry to try it out).

I've also decided that unless prices change quite a bit, I'll more likely go with the new X2 3800+ as it seems to be a pretty decent overclocker going by a few reviews, and an extra 200mhz and a bit more cache really isn't worth almost twice the price in my books (and in any case, it's still faster than my 3000+ which is only 1.8ghz/512k where the 3800+X2 is 2.0ghz/512k, although mine is OC'd to 2.25ghz) I'm hoping by the time I'd be ready to get it the price on the 4400+ will have come down quite a bit but I won't get my hopes up. My newegg wishlist is up around $1200 on its own, plus probably another good $100 or so in AC gear (excl Aquaero and second aquagrafx, obviously) and screws, the good news that only about $150 of the newegg stuff is what I really need (new HD as I'm FULL and some blank CD and DVD media for the same reason). 500-watt speakers and two gigs of ram can probably wait.

 

look's great

 

Ok, I did some more replumbing. How fun!


Opened up the new 6800 block (again).


And the backside of the plate thing. I wiped all the gunk off of there, not that it won't build up again in three days.


Nekkid card! Nice and shiny core there... I think I had never acutally bothered to put on fresh AS5 paste. I tend to get lazy that way... I can never find my rubbing alcohol and q-tips when I need them. Ah well, went for a fresh application this time around.


And the block. Nice pretty copper core was installed for me by the previous user (as it turns out, every single GPU block I've owned has been used, go figure)


I, once again, replaced the socket-cap screws with my preferred button head variety (after having finally ordered them in the size I needed from Bolt Depot)


And another shot with slightly less glare. Don't ask what that ramsink is for, I have no idea. I saw a bare chip and had a spare ramsink. Do the math.


The back of the card. You can kinda tell how it's supposed to be installed, as Aqua Computer doesn't give instructions (shame on them!). You need to reuse the "X" plate and screws to hold down the stuff around the core, and the plastic screws are provided for the ram and voltage regulator areas.


And more zoomed out...


Here's the temporary final plumbing layout. It's changed quite a bit; really two seperate loops now.
CSP-MAG -> APE120 -> CPU/Cuplex XT -> NB/Twinplex -> Y -> T -> Aquajet/Aquatube -> CSP-MAG
and CSP-750 -> APE120 -> GPU2/6800 -> GPU1/Twinplex -> Y -> T -> Aquajet/Aquatube -> CSP-750
Basically I have two loops but join them back up just before the Aquajet. The T fitting is really only there to be a makeshift 90* fitting because I don't have any. It's rather hard to use it as a drain point (despite the stopper) as it goes right to the aquajet, which is above all the water in the res. This is only finalized until I actually get all the stuff I need. Which includes more black tubing!


It's a bit crowded, but all good.


My makeshift elbow and joining setup.


And the pumps. Chances are that, for the second time, won't be where they stay. I also can't figure out for the life of me where that other CSP-MAG is at... last I knew it had been sent out or so I thought, but that must have been six weeks ago or more.


No I don't love the 90* fittings on the inlets, but they'll have to do for now.



And some Aquatube action. Note that the Aquajet is on the side now, not center. My plan is to get a second Aquajet, put it on the other side, and lose that Y fitting. What you can't really see is that I've just bored out the Aquajet to 1/4" ID (6.35mm I think). The opening at the top was only like 4mm, and despite how much I like the small bore, that's just silly. Maybe I lost some pressure that way, but the increased flow (although that's more likely from the split loops) more than makes up for it. And yes, I have added in the other two screws, I just leave it that way for filling so when I have to open it again to top off or whatever it's not such a pain.

In fact, the flow rate was so much higher than before that I almost pushed the top right off when filling it (I wasn't paying attention that much at the time, I'm usually holding it down when I start the test PSU to run the pumps for folling). Before when I had the Aquajet on the side but in a single loop, it took about three days before the water really spread over the entire top. It usually takes about 20 seconds when it's in the center after a fresh filling, where I've wiped it dry. The new split/dual loop setup took maybe half a second to get there.

Not only that, temps are down on everything (not sure about the chipset as I don't have a sensor for it, but I'd assume so). The GPU with the 6800 block was idling around 70c before, the other around 55c, now idling at 50c and 48c respectively. CPU's around 38c; I think it was mid-40's before. Not surprising really as the GPU's don't have a CPU adding heat into the loop first, and the chipset now only has the CPU before it, instead of that and two 6800GT's.

It's not totally ready, but definately getting there as far as plumbing goes. I still want to get a dual core proc and hopefully another gig of ram for hardware (the new 7800gt's would be nice too, but an aweful waste really). I've got quite a few more ideas for various modding bits, but some of the parts I need are unavailable at the moment.

 

Whats with the water in the aquatube thats behind the smooshed plexi [or whatever it is]? Is it not watertight?

 

That happened when I was filling it, I just never bothered to dry it out.

 

Is that the AquagraFX cooler that someone got from Dan a couple of months after he disappeared? Make sure you leak check it very good as IIRC that cooler was missing a bunch of parts. Since SNT didn't get any more AC shipments me thinks that he got stuff at the local hardware store to restore it.

BTW, I think you might want to ditch that copper core. AC and all their dealers won't honor any warranties if you have had that in the cooler. I really don't think it would make much of a difference. Is all "that gunk" the result of galvanic corrosion? I don't think even AC Fluid will help when copper and aluminum are right next to each other.

 

Nope, I bought it off of DeadByDawn using Dan's forums

The alu is anodized so corrosion from it isn't an issue. The bodies of the pumps are also alu I'm fairly sure, also black anodized. Chances are my final liquid will be Innovatek's solution, as it seems to offer the best protection for the price (unlike Fluorinert, etc, which is quite pricy). When I bought the cooler off of DBD the copper core was included and installed (although he gave me the original red alu one as well), and on top of the fact that I bought the cooler used, SNT is utterly dead and I'm just about positive that's where he bought the cooler. Regardless, I'm not worried, and seeing how much copper is in the loop elsewhere (twinplexes, Cuplex XT
), the only thing AC would be concerned about is people damaging the O-ring installing the copper core or not putting it in all the way, or not having the huge o-ring installed right when re-attaching the top.

I think the "gunk" was just some crap in the water. When I added in a Black Ice Pro for a short while (to see if it helped temps, and not nearly as much as my new plumbing), I hadn't apparently cleaned it well enough and in addition to some dried up red dye, I think some minerals may have made it in too (I think at some point, plain tapwater was in that loop). Before everything is finalized, I'll go through and clean out EVERYTHING. A couple of the jets in my XT seem to be getting a tiny bit clogged as well, and I'd ideally replumb it all with fresh tubing, just so nothing lingering will be there.

All of the aluminum exposed to the water is anodized, so there should be no issues. I'll keep an eye on it, but I doubt it will be a problem. Thanks for the concern about it though

 

Copper that is right next to aluminum, even if it is anodized, gets all bets taken off the table. That is why AC says that if you install the copper core your on your own. Galvanic corrosion in a fluid is one thing, but two dissimilar metals touching each other in an aquaeous solution is a disaster looking for a place to happen regardless of what kind of anti-corrosives you put in it. I would just keep an eye on that if I were you.

As far as the XT goes I would suggest a thorough flushing and reverse flush. Then using distilled H20 run it through a filter (coffee filter in a pinch, but lab filter better idea) before putting it into your system. Any of these nozzle jet coolers have been known to clog if you don't do it this way. If you are interested see the write-up on the Little River site.

 

Firehed:
With all do respect, that loop is looking a little "out of control" . You need a second AC AquagraFX6800..that's for sure. Why the mix of clear and black P/C tube?
Come_on_Fella..I expect "perfection" from FrozenFire...

 

Well some rude modder bought all the black tubing that Sharka had left in stock. I think their initials were TN or something along those lines. I think the next AC order should be here in about 7-10 days and I'm pretty sure there will be more black tubing coming from somewhere here in the USA as AC says they can't supply any right now. The tubing I have been after Wes to get for me is made by Mazzer and it has quite a sharp bend radius and is exactly 8/6mm in size.

 

It is indeed out of control. But you know me, I like a working system while doing the project, and I wanted to see how my new loop plans would work (quite well)

Yes, some very rude modder did clean out Sharka of all the stuff I needed. And more fun little ideas keep popping up.

As I managed to get my full Aquagrafx6800 setup for $90 shipped, I don't feel quite as guilty about buying it, especially as I have a use for the twinplex that came off of there.. But it would cost another $130 or so for a second, and of course it only works on a couple cards. With luck it could be modded to fit the new 7800's, not that I'm planning to get some anytime soon. I'd definately like a second though.

More to ponder... and buy

Don't worry though, I expect perfection from this too. I've already invested way too much into it to have anything less.

 

Hey I gave them back an Aquajet and an aluminum mount for the Aquatube. Not my fault they didn't send you the Aquajet.

 

I haven't ordered anything yet... but in any case I can't even hit the order button for the Aquajet last time I checked.

I've been dealing with some hardware issues... something's definately messed up now with the graphics card that recieved the 6800-specific block. I don't know exactly what but it was initially related to the power stuff (read my post in graphics cards regarding the slovenian error message). Now something's definately wrong, as when I tried to turn it on last, it was emitting a very strange noise (and... umm... things that can't make noise shouldn't be doing so). I'm not happy, because it seems that, in effect, that block has killed my card. I dunno if it's really dead or not, but definately messed up now.

I'm right now posting from my laptop and seeing if single-card mode will work until I get this figured out (it appears so). What I'll probably try is going back to my dual-twinplex method and see how that works, if at all. It seems that I can't get the pressure right for the screws on the AquagraFX6800, or something to that effect. I can't figure out why; it seemed fine when I first installed it.

In any case, it started with something being wrong with power being supplied to the card. Presumably, related to the power regulator chips, which when using the Twinplex had it's own little heatsink. I've been reseating the block since that issue, and it's been getting worse (some chip is literally screaming....I don't know more than that). I really wish I had a second PCIE setup but alas, I get to ponder it some other way. I'm not decided between trying the original aircooling, going back to the Twinplex and stock ram/power coolers, or just RMA the thing.

I may just (assuming the card doesn't need an RMA first) sell it and my other 6800GT for what I can get and try to pick up a 7800GT and put the leftover cash towards an X2 proc. Don't get me wrong, SLI is so worth it, but if it won't work because of a waterblock, that's just no good. It's about $300 for a new PCIE 6800GT, and $400 or so for a 7800GT, and it looks like performance would be about the same (going by Bit's review, though I'm not using an FX57 by any means), plus better in the odd game or two that doesn't support SLI.

TN, you wouldn't happen to have an idea of when Sharka will get more stuff in would you? I understand there was some sort of hold up that sounds like it was from IT-Trade but in any case I need to pick up a couple 120mm AC grills, another Aquajet, some more black P+C and some various fittings and goodies. I should just email them, but being the Lazymodder that I am... well, you know.

Anyone have thoughts as to what I should try for the hardware? I really want to get that sorted out before I do too much more modding, because a) I like to have the system up as much as I can, as my laptop is a POS and b) if the hardware changes, something may not fit quite right (though that would most likely not be a problem for what I have planned, using either a 6800gt sli setup or single/sli 7800gt)

I should just ask in the AC forums, but I can never find the login stuff, seeing how crap my German is. I think I registered a while back though...

 

SORRY to hear about your problem Mr.Firehed.
I have installed three AquagraFX6800 blocks. On all three, the spring-loaded cores where "sticky". That could be the pressure-problem you are having. I only hope you did not mess-up one of the power reg chips by over-tightening the screws because of a sticky AquagraFX6800 core.
As for Sharka, I just spoke to Wes. The shipment is on it's way, should be in the States next week.
Once again SORRY..