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Case Mod - In Progress Project: Isis Ascendant - October 27th, Crystal indicator lights

Discussion in 'Project Logs' started by longwing, 4 Jun 2009.

  1. longwing

    longwing New Member

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    Bad_cancer, The boy 4rm oz, stonedsurd, Cleveland216, GuyInTulsa - Thanks guys!

    Ahh, thanks for clearing that up. You're right. It can be picked up from a number of places. For anyone else looking, my tank is an "Eclipse System 6 Desk Top Acrylic Aquarium" I picked up a spare from Premium Aquatics when I cut the testing hole in my first tank. You can also get them from local pet stores for a lot cheaper. (I learned this a little while ago, after spending more to buy it online. :rolleyes:)

    The modifications to the stock tank are actually pretty basic. Anyone planning on running a submersion system probably has the modding skill to make the changes in a few minutes flat.

    Are you planning on implementing phase change cooling? My first attempt at a submersion system featured a compressor looted from a mini-fridge. The compressor worked flawlessly, but the tank I'd built around it kept leaking. I'd strongly recommend Legoman666's fantastic worklog. He built a leak-less custom tank, and can give much better details than me (he's had problems with leaks, but not from his tank).

    This is a very valid point. The Eclipse tank is pretty good about this, there's not a lot of wasted space, but it's not perfect. Ideally, you'd want a tank just wide enough for the motherboard tray, and deep enough for all your seated cards, CPU cooler, and sundry cables. If you happen upon a prefabricated tank that measures up, please share it with the rest of us. In the interim, the Eclipse is a decent compromise for those who can't get custom acrylic to behave.

    Thanks! :D Though I'm actually doing electrolytic etching. Acid etching is a bit below my current sanity trait.

    That's some fantastically detailed etching! I love the level of fidelity you were able to get from your transfer. You're clearly superior in the craft, and I salute you sir.

    I've been using Brasso, followed up by common dish soap, water, then isopropyl alcohol. It seems to do a decent job of cleaning the plates. I should've tried Acetone though, it's not like I don't have a huge metal can of the stuff right beside my workspace. :rolleyes: I'll keep the scotch brite in mind for next time too. If I can get half the detail you've managed to achieve, it'll be a good day, so reproducing your process sounds like a great plan.

    The general consensus seems to be 12 volts, with suggested amperage all over the map. Depending on how aggressive you want to get with your anode-cathode placement, and how tolerant your power supply is to overloads and voltage spikes, the time can vary a great deal. Generally, higher amperage leads to shorter etch times. Most people seem to take about two hours on a given plate. I took longer, because I was learning as I went.

    The really great thing about electrolytic etching is that you can keep rechecking the plate until you're happy with the etch. For most of this attempt, I took the plate out every fifteen minutes, rinsed it in the sink, and checked the depth of the etch. As long as you don't rub off any of your toner (it starts to lose adhesion after a while) you can keep checking and rechecking until it's perfect.

    Jake Von Slatt suggests Greenart too. I've read through some of their documentation, but I really should knuckle down and go through the entire thing.

    Most of the articles I've read say that they found the bulb unnecessary, or felt that it needlessly slowed down the etch. The fuse on the other hand, that would've been a great idea. :sigh:

    My next plan is actually to find myself a battery charger. A lot of people seem to have good successes with them.

    Heynow, that's my hometown you're calling out :eyebrow: :D. But I'm going to shut up about politics on my lunch break. Bit-Tech = Leisure time.
     
  2. Throbbi

    Throbbi New Member

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    Well here's a brand new reader of these forums (this very day even!) who, although has followed some fairly extreme modding projects i've yet to see the like of this and the various others you yourself have mentioned in your logs. :jawdrop:I see this as a testament to what is capable with enough desire. Keep it up and thank you for the inspiration and i shall now take said inspiration and figure out what the hell is wrong with my damn machine :wallbash:
     
  3. Dragonphreak

    Dragonphreak Member

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    I've been debating it, I want to see Sub-ambient temperatures as I want to do some overclocking. I want to try some peltiers in series that are aircooled, but I'm always open to suggestions. I want somethign that can be run 24/7 without concern (out-side of power consumption)

    I'm still shopping for tanks right now, but I'm trying to avoid running a lot of tubing to pump the liquid. I really need to get a design program to show you what I have in mind.

    Legoman666's Build is also great in showing me what materials just do not work out, and that you can build your own tank instead of using a pre-built molded tank.
     
  4. longwing

    longwing New Member

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    It's worth noting that you don't actually need to go sub-ambient to overclock. The default Puget Systems kit was tested with an Intel QX9770 overclocked to 4.6GHz. Under load, the temperatures leveled out at 50C. All you have to do is keep the CPU cool enough that it doesn't become unstable.

    That said, I got into submersion cooling because I was trying to solve the one big problem of sub-ambient cooling: Condensation.

    Sub-ambient systems, when used in open air, need elaborate counter systems of sealants or heaters to prevent the condensate from frying your electronics. However, a submersion system doesn't have this problem, because the oil insulates all components from the moisture in the air.

    But while it solves one problem, it creates others. Cooled oil looses viscosity, becoming thicker and thicker. Eventually, it can clog radiators and cease up motors in pumps (assuming you go far enough below ambient). Additionally, you have to worry about condensate on the outside of your tank. Your parts might be safe, but you could still wind up with contamination as water condenses in close proximity to your oil.

    However, this is a non issue if you're only going a few degrees below room temperature, if you cool your CPU to a few degrees below ambient (such as with pelters), a submersion system can be an excellent insulator. Especially since the other components will throw off compensating heat. The oil will ultimately be above ambient, preventing condensation, even if the CPU itself is running at a lower temperature.

    I think about this stuff. I think about it a lot, and I love seeing how others tackle these problems. If you do go sub ambient, be sure to post your work. I'd love to see how you solve some of these issues.

    Various modders seem to have good success with Google Sketchup (I think that's what they're using, anyways). Whatever method you use, I look forward to seeing your worklog.

    That's the earlier point I was making about tank sizes. If you want the perfect tank, you're basically stuck building it yourself. I tried this before, and could never get it to work right. Others have had plenty of success though. Again, succeed or fail, you should publish your work. This kind of technology will only become commonplace if people experiment and contribute.

    Welcome to the forums! It feels weird to say that. I'm a noob here too.
     
  5. Dragonphreak

    Dragonphreak Member

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    Well, I downloaded Google's SketchUp last night and I'm in the process of learning it so I can show off my planned build. I love that the community here is really just that, a community of modders that help each other out.

    As to your comment about condensation, when I decided I was going to Overclock, and a lot, I knew that condensation was going to be a problem. Its also the core reason I went with Submersion cooling compared to just using Phase-Change. If I do go with a off-the-shelf fish tank, I will be building a lid that will seal up the system to avoid condensation on the top of the oil.

    I know I don't HAVE to go sub-ambient to overclock, but I had decided that it was one of my goals for the project. I'm still debating using a peltier series to cool the oil and a second series to run a water cooling loop for the processor alone, and seeing what kind of temps I could get with that as the water loop would have better Thermal conductivity than the oil.

    Have you bought your oil yet? I bought a 16oz bottle at a local store to test to see when exactly the oil starts to lose its viscosity to the point of threatening the pumps. I've been scrounging the web for more information on different oils, and other liquids. I saw the build on the hardForums that was using gasoline and alcohols to get negative temps, and while interesting, I'm planning a stable 24/7 build instead of a "runs for 30 minutes" build.

    I've heard a number of people talk about Fluorinert, and looked it up on 3M's website, but I am still unsure as to what the cost is there for? Do it keep its viscosity under extreme temps? Does it have better thermal conductivity than normal oil? The stat sheets I was able to find didn't seem to show that, so I'm confused by the demand and price.

    And yeah, it will be my first work log here, but I will definitely document my build here. :D
     
  6. Dragonphreak

    Dragonphreak Member

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    Longwing, if you could give me the foot print sometime of the aquarium sometime, that would really help. I know the front face is bowed, but are the sides at an angle or are they perfectly square? Thanks!
     
  7. youeffsee

    youeffsee New Member

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    I really love the aged copper look, done perfectly.

    I like your ghetto spray booth... I used to use a system exactly the same in my old apt. 1 thing I did different was I set it up in my bathroom, ran a dryer vent tube from the top of my box to the exhaust fan in the ceiling. Nothing flammable in the bathroom (aside from some styling products) And a ton less cleaning when your hungry. :thumb:

    :jawdrop: .... <That sums it up about best.

    Edit:
    You can buy acid resistant gloves (the thick black 1s) Ask around at any paint store or hardware store, they will have them. Well worth it. :thumb:
     
    Last edited: 13 Sep 2009
  8. longwing

    longwing New Member

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    There are quite a few dielectric fluids on the market, but most of them are dangerous, expensive, or difficult to acquire. Aside from mineral oil, the most popular solution appears to be transformer oil. Ever notice that they look like buckets? There's a reason. The problems with transformer oil are similar to the problems with most dielectric fluids. Where do you get it? And how much does it cost?

    I'm going with mineral oil because it's cheap, tested, and easy to acquire.

    Fluorinert is fun stuff, but not really practical for a modder. Its significantly more thermally conductive than oil or water, and it's less viscous than water, even down to freezing temperatures. To top it off, it doesn't interfere with electronics. You could run a part in Fluorinert for years, then dry it out and run it normally.

    With all those neat properties, it's tough to imagine why everyone hasn't started using it. Then you consider the drawbacks: Fluorinert costs at least $600 per gallon :eeek:. That's assuming you can land the licence to purchase it, and find a retailer. To make matters worse, it evaporates very quickly. So quickly, in fact, that the cost of lost flourinert is factored in when switching filters in industrial air-conditioning units. They lose enough from just cracking open the casing that they have to actually calculate the cost.

    That's a pretty good idea, except that my current bathroom is too small to accommodate such a rig. :waah: Still, worth keeping in mind in case my situation ever changes.

    Brilliant! To the hardware store! :thumb:
     
  9. longwing

    longwing New Member

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    September 15th, Etching Success!

    Back to my Tuesday update schedule with a lovely bit of news. My etching experiment didn't turn out so poorly after all!

    After a lot of agonizing, I decided to clean off some of the toner from one corner of the etch. I was hesitant to simply clean the whole thing off. I'd never be able to re-etch this specific plate if I removed the toner. However, after cleaning the corner, I discovered that the etch had achieved a significant bite before the power supply blew.

    So I grabbed my can of acetone and cleared more toner off:
    [​IMG]

    It's alive! After clearing the etch off, I was able to give it a decent critique. From a technical perspective, it's deeply flawed. Lots of mistakes, pockmarks, etc. From an artistic perspective the look of the piece makes it flawless for my project:
    [​IMG]

    I sprayed the plate with black enamel, then cleaned it again with acetone. This left nice sharp blackened lines. It also brought a lot of the mistakes into sharper relief. Incidentally, latex house paint is completely useless as a blocker in electrolytic etching. I think we've all learned something today:
    [​IMG]

    Finally, I cut the plate into the proper shape for the lid. I'd originally intended to cut off the borders, but they matched the look of the lid itself so perfectly that I decided to keep as much of them as I could. This lead to a lot of very careful and very annoying cutting, but I consider it worthwhile:
    [​IMG]

    In conclusion: This was a triumph, and I'm making a note here, huge success!
     
    stonedsurd likes this.
  10. Mach

    Mach New Member

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    Awesome! It worked very well and looks great. Congratulations!
     
  11. Javerh

    Javerh Topiary Golem

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    That turned out to be an incredible piece! This was a triumph.
     
  12. Bad_cancer

    Bad_cancer Mauritius? 2nd speck east of africa

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    This looks fantastic, and its because of the flaws. this fits so well with your mod its almost criminal to be this lucky! :D
     
  13. stonedsurd

    stonedsurd Is a cackling Yuletide Belgian

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    Stunning! :D
     
  14. The boy 4rm oz

    The boy 4rm oz Project: Elegant-Li

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    That is sssssssssssssssssssooooooooooooooooooooooooo cool.
     
  15. longwing

    longwing New Member

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    Mach, Javerh, Bad_cancer, stonedsurd, The boy 4rm oz -Thanks to all of you for the encouragement. I doubt that the next update will be quite as impressive. We'll see. It's mostly paint and wiring now, but at least we're coming up on the home stretch!
     
  16. stonedsurd

    stonedsurd Is a cackling Yuletide Belgian

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    Heh, the home stretch tends to be the more 'pedestrian' stuff always :p
     
  17. woody_294

    woody_294 Wizard Ninja :P

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    Wow that really looks the part. Love it :D
     
  18. longwing

    longwing New Member

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    September, 22nd - Drilling

    This post is a little threadbare because I've been digging around for one sodding tube of epoxy that hasn't hardened into an unusable mass. :wallbash:

    I have managed to make some progress. I've been drilling out the holes for the switches. I started by denting each switch marker, to make sure the drill wouldn't drift:
    [​IMG]

    Then we're going to neatly segue over to the more ambitious part without paying too much attention to the horrible drill holes I made. What? I don't have a drill press. Some of us peons have to be happy with a DeWalt and a caffeine addled "steady" hand.

    At least the switch covers will hide the blemishes.

    Ahem. Lets talk about my power and hard drive indicators. There's a brilliant plan here, honest:
    [​IMG]

    Its possible that you recognize the bottle from the previous image. I won't say what it is. Lets see if anyone figures it out.

    My brilliant plan, however, is to convert two of these bottles into led-powered bulbs. I started by measuring out the center of each bulb's socket and drilling a guide hole. Then I flipped the plate and marked out the exact size of the socket itself:
    [​IMG]

    Next I cut out a square of material to give myself better access, further revealing my shocking shortages of proper tools for working with metal:
    [​IMG]

    Finally, I ground out a proper hole for each bulb. I did this very very slowly, again due to a lack of proper tools.
    [​IMG]

    Once I find some epoxy, I'll be attaching the plate to the plastic lid. However, I can't actually build my bulb sockets until I can secure the metal, so the next step awaits a visit to a hardware store.
     
  19. Interloper

    Interloper Faux Pro Modder

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    Honestly, if the etching came out crystal clear, it wouldn't fit in with the theme. (IMHO)

    Def. keeping my eye on this one! Great work!
     
  20. Javerh

    Javerh Topiary Golem

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    That bottle looks like one of those shampoo bottles from a hotel. Is it glass or plastic?
     

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