1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Xbox One Project Scorpio

Discussion in 'Gaming' started by Guest-16, 14 Jun 2016.

  1. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    Since 2304 (36CU) is ~5.5TFLOP so my money is on a full fat Polaris 10: 2560 cores, which should push it over 6. That's more than PS4 Neo's 2304 (36CU).

    320GB/s = 256bit with GDDR5X at 10Gbit/s. It's entry-level GDDR5X so should be plentiful volume by 2017.

    Eight cores very likely still based on low power x86 not Zen to keep platform compatibility and cost and die size as low as possible, although likely upgraded to Puma(+) and clocked at low-2GHz up from 1.6.

    No word on whether they dropped the eDRAM in order to favour going GDDR5X, but it's a likelihood since the increasing Xbox - PC alignment requires it being as PC-like as possible to please developers making UWP apps.

    Partners at Computex tell me Oculus is pushing a lot of resource Microsoft's way, away from PC, in order to focus on Xbox VR in Q117. Oculus does what it does best: hardware (on a fixed platform), and Microsoft has the software and channel for selling games and MS gets the Oc brand to enhance its VR credentials.

    As an offshoot of all this, AMD will have IP for a 2560 core Polaris 10 part with GDDR5X somewhere in its arsenal. RX 490? Then Vega becomes new Fury?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 14 Jun 2016
  2. edzieba

    edzieba Virtual Realist

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2009
    Posts:
    3,179
    Likes Received:
    284
    That depends on whether that ">6 TFLOP" figure is for the GPU only, or includes the FLOP contribution from the CPU (and if the rumoured PS4 'Neo' specs are accurate).

    It's going to be interesting to see if these beefier consoles switch back to a 'traditional' multi-chip architecture (discrete CPU and GPU) away from the cheaper consolidated APU design, or if these are going to be a gargantuan slam of consolidated silicon, or two big chips on some new-technology interposer (to allow for larger interposers than current reticule sizes allow). Multi-chip seems most likely simply from a thermal standpoint.

    I'd be extremely suiprised if the eDRAM was dropped. It would mean dropping backward-compatibility with existing XB1 games unless the developers did some serious refactoring to deal with the different memory architecture.
     
  3. Parge

    Parge the worst Super Moderator

    Joined:
    16 Jul 2010
    Posts:
    12,866
    Likes Received:
    552
    That is an incredible performance increase!

    Should be a nice boon for PC Gamers, since devs are more likely to implement higher resolution textures.
     
  4. Cei

    Cei pew pew pew

    Joined:
    22 Mar 2008
    Posts:
    4,712
    Likes Received:
    122
    Just wait for the cost. I can see the OneS being kept as the base model with the new console costing significantly more. Both this and the Neo are going to be pricey boxes.
     
  5. Harlequin

    Harlequin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    4 Jun 2004
    Posts:
    7,071
    Likes Received:
    179
    eteknix are reporting is 8/16 core zen oO
     
  6. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    Could be but likely it's a spec regurgitation from the RTG passed onto semi custom passed onto MS. It's a typical calculation for GPU not CPU. Whoever leaked that spec is a techy reading a spec sheet, it's not been heavily vetted by Xbox team.

    eDRAM can be optimized for when it was a frame buffer, but these days is used as a huge LLC as compensation for shitty DRAM bandwidth and is usually 'blind' to the software. Like Intel Iris Pro eDRAM supports CPU performance speed ups even without express software support. When DRAM chips were more expensive or unstable markets this used to make sense in terms of long-term reliable purchasing channel, but it's flipped the other way around now as silicon is more expensive and DRAM cheapcheapcheap. The fact they've gone 3.5x memory bandwidth now tells there's no need. Better spend that silicon on GPU cores.
    It'll have so much performance eDRAM backward compatibility is kind of a non-issue.

    It'll be APU and likely monosilicon as this has been the one way of doing everything since XB360 Slim. It's also AMD's forte. The clock speeds won't be crazy so no need for a super-high end 16FF process and TSMC has lots of fabrication options now for cost/performance. Polaris 10 isn't that big and Puma cores are teenyweeny: probably similar to 28nm XB1 tbh. They will still have a PCH offchip though, it's not SOC. Interposers are more expensive than monosilicon.

    No where have I seen evidence of this. It's a huge risk and unproven: they will want to deliver dev boxes ASAP and Zen won't arrive until Q4/Q1! It doesn't make economic sense or compatibility sense either. When I worked with AMD on the flipside it never delivered a platform early or that stable. Always required work. Intel will have working parts 9 months ahead of launch.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 14 Jun 2016
  7. Harlequin

    Harlequin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    4 Jun 2004
    Posts:
    7,071
    Likes Received:
    179
  8. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    I think they're all spanking themselves silly wanting to see it, but it won't be.

    Sure, it's not on the 2017 roadmaps, but that's AMD chips not its semi-custom division. Different thing.
     
  9. atanum141

    atanum141 I fapped to your post!

    Joined:
    22 Jul 2004
    Posts:
    7,986
    Likes Received:
    19


    Either way, I shall be saving my pennies.
     
  10. rollo

    rollo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 May 2008
    Posts:
    7,700
    Likes Received:
    99
    PC will have every exclusive worth playing in truth. May as well buy the equivelent gpu.

    Trusted Reviews has a list of games that were xbox exclusive that are now joint PC release.

    Ranges from Halo Wars 2, Gears of War 4, Forza Horiz 3. Goes on and on.

    Will Microsoft have a exclusive left worth paying £500 for?
     
  11. Cei

    Cei pew pew pew

    Joined:
    22 Mar 2008
    Posts:
    4,712
    Likes Received:
    122
    Quote for truth. It won't be Zen, it'll be Jaguar or a close relative that has been sparkled up a bit. That way you retain absolute compatibility with the Xbone. Microsoft will have basically locked down the hardware spec already, especially if they're announcing performance metrics, and that means work began on this a while ago. Ergo it can't be Zen, because that simply is nowhere near ready.

    Digital Foundry has a more sober and realistic look at likely specs. Which is saying something as they're normally idiots.
     
  12. samkiller42

    samkiller42 For i AM Cheesecake!!

    Joined:
    25 Apr 2006
    Posts:
    6,460
    Likes Received:
    131
    Yeah, Because not everyone wants a PC to game on, and much prefer the laid back approach. Also, as it's Buy it on Xbox Live, get it on Windows 10 for no extra cost it opens up the market a bit more, Probably to get PC gamers onto Xbox.

    Sam
     
  13. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    The sell is no longer the console, the sell is the convenience and services. One click install/pay, netflix etc. I think a lot of people will pay 500 quid for an Xbox and 500 quid for a phone and that'll be their home lives sorted.
     
  14. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    Found the source quote:

    "6TFLOP of GPU power" - so not CPU.

    " Gamers are going to get the most powerful graphics processor" he's focused on the change to graphics, not CPU, so CPU hasn't changed.

    4K resolution doesn't equal 4K-native rendering.

    8 CPU cores doesn't equal 16 thread, doesn't equal Zen. He's focused on numbers so would have said something like "16 virtual CPUs" if it had been SMT capable.

    "We can render at 60Hz", but that's not in the same sentence as 4K, so he's specifically making the point about moving beyond the 30FPS limit on so many current gen games, at 1080 or lower resolutions because he's omitted an affirmative resolution from the statement.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 15 Jun 2016
  15. rollo

    rollo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    16 May 2008
    Posts:
    7,700
    Likes Received:
    99
    Still think Xbox has lost a lot of fans so far who will not leave PlayStation no matter what. With Joint releases I can replicate the Xbox one experience very easily but have options for much better graphics fps or resolution.

    What's been proven though is that both consoles where very under powered when launched.

    6 tflops is Aprox the AMD 490 gpu level performance wise so would still be touch and go on native 4K. The upgraded gpu is more than likely for VR and its tie in with Oculus rift could be wrong but that's what I think personally
     
  16. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

    Joined:
    20 Nov 2005
    Posts:
    10,657
    Likes Received:
    732
    All I'm looking for is a price drop on the original.. I'll need a blu-ray/dvd player in the not too distant future.
     
  17. Harlequin

    Harlequin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    4 Jun 2004
    Posts:
    7,071
    Likes Received:
    179
    will eb replaced by the xbox one 2 - preorder 500gb for £249 or 2tb for £349 (and 1tb for £299)


    could the GPU part be vega??
     
  18. Vault-Tec

    Vault-Tec Green Plastic Watering Can

    Joined:
    30 Aug 2015
    Posts:
    9,129
    Likes Received:
    926
    I strongly doubt it's Zen in there. AMD have already said it won't come cheap and they're not releasing the cheap parts first. They're going straight for the neck with the 8c 16t chip and others will follow later. They've also said that they want their share of the server market back, so you could find them spending more time concentrating on that than desktops.

    I can't see how 1. Microsoft can charge more than $500 for a console and get away with it and 2. How you could get a Polaris and a Zen in there for $500.

    I could be wrong of course, the console could break into new price ground (hail Nvidia !) but I just don't see it. Kids buy consoles and their parents are inevitably the ones in charge of whether they get it or not. When I was growing up every kid I knew wanted a Neo Geo but actually had a SNES lol.

    From what I'm gathering this Zen chip could cost as much as £500.
     
  19. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    If Vega is ONLY 6 TFLOP then AMD are truly f'd.
    It needs to be ~10 to compete with Pascal GP102, assuming its FP32 performance is similar to P100 @ 10.2TFLOP (and that's not even the full core which is ~11TFLOP if we assume 0.00265 FLOP/core and 3840 cores)
    Polaris 10 with 36CU is 5.5TFLOP, so 6TFLOP could be 40CU with 2560.
    EDIT: Actually we can work it out if we base the assumption on 4096 in Vega: 5.5TFLOP in 2304 = 0.00239 FLOP/core (not taking into account HBM2 benefits or arch changes like extra caches etc) 4096 = 9.78 TFLOP. So, yea, around 10 with some optimizations.

    This too. Zen is premium IP and MS will likely want to go to TSMC, which AMD might not allow/have time to do the designs etc considering how long it's taken at GloFo!

    We can expect an 8 core Zen to be at least $500-$1000+, considering Intel charges similar money. So squeezing that in a $500 console is insane. True it would be better off with 3/4 high clocked Zen cores over 8 shitty ones, but it's a numbers game.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 15 Jun 2016
  20. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

    Joined:
    20 Nov 2005
    Posts:
    10,657
    Likes Received:
    732
    Yes, but either some people will clear out their XBone1 for a 2, and I can grab a cheapie second hand, or somewhere with excess stock will drop the price to clear the old units is what I'm hoping for :p
     

Share This Page