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TVs projectors

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Ultimate Gamer, 7 Jun 2008.

  1. Ultimate Gamer

    Ultimate Gamer New Member

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    my parents are building a home theater in the house and I was looking at a bunch of them never really got the specs does anyone have any suggestions the wall we are going to put it on is 190 inches wide and 90 inches high. If you have one and you like it please tell me this is my first projector so blah! Thanks
     
  2. Smegwarrior

    Smegwarrior Fighting the war on smeg

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    I say go CRT projection because it has better (read: true) blacks because of it's high contrast ratio of anywhere from 10,000:1 up to 30,000:1 or more.

    More accurate colours.

    A more film like image with more depth of field because it doesn't have the artificial sharpness of LCD/DLP projectors which makes LCD/DLP projectors look harsh, flat and unnatural.

    NO screen door effect.

    It will display any resolution from 640 x 480i up to it's maximum resolution which depends on the model but anything made from the mid 1990's onwards should do 1080i HD and anything from 2000 onwards will do 1080p.
    It is not a fixed pixel device (fixed resolution) like LCD and DLP projectors which upscale or downscale the signal to match the native resolution of the LCD/DLP panel (and do it badly).

    It will outlast anything you buy new off the shelf today.
    I have a very old Sony VPH1000QM (720 x 576i SD only) that I have had for over 14 years and it has NEVER needed any repairs or had the tubes changed with over 80,000 hours on them (beat that with a digital bulb burner) and I have personally put over 60,000 of those hours on it.
    I watch a picture that is 2.1 metres tall by 2.5 metres wide in 4:3 ratio.
    You will be lucky to get an LCD/DLP projector to last more than 5 years and will go through a bulb every 500 - 1000 hours no matter what the manufacture states in their specs.

    Although most use RGBHV (same as analog VGA) you can get a transcoder that will take HDMI and component and convert it to RGBHV or use a home theatre PC.

    They are big and heavy (makes it harder to steal ;) ) and need to be set up properly to get the best out of them but are well worth the effort.

    See Curt Palme's website where you will find everything you could want to know about them as well as help setting it up.


    But if you want something to plonk and play and don't mind their short life or paying out of that dark and smelly place around the back of you for bulbs every 500 - 1000 hours or the risk that when a bulb fails it could explode and send hot quartz glass flying about the inside of the LCD/DLP projector which melts into the panels and circuit boards and destroys the projector making it bin food (few if any spare parts are available even for the latest LCD/DLP projector, lots of parts are available for CRT projectors), then go ahead and buy a digital.

    Just my $0.05 (we don't have 2 cent coins any more in Australia) ;)
     
  3. Ultimate Gamer

    Ultimate Gamer New Member

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    lol

    Thanks for the good tips i was looking on newegg.com and i cant find any CRT projectors have a good site to buy them from?

    I plan to have a full setup we need to rip out the walls bigtime because my dad put in the surround sound wire were the full wall screen would go
     
  4. Jipa

    Jipa Avoiding the "I guess.." since 2004

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    Now you've heard the opinion of a CRT-fanboy, next up will be to get the opinion from LCD/DLP-guy and the battle can begin...

    I have Sanyo PLV-Z3 and it gives nice natural colors at 720p, but I assume you'll need 1080p for such a huge screen.
     
  5. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Will work for nuts Super Moderator

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    What is the budget? It simply isn't possible to give useful advice without knowing.
     
  6. Ultimate Gamer

    Ultimate Gamer New Member

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    6,000$ usd for the whole room speakers and speaker system and custom made screen :)
     
  7. Jipa

    Jipa Avoiding the "I guess.." since 2004

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    Ok even AV-stuff is virtually free on the wrong side of the sea I still don't think that will get you decent sounds and fullHD... Might want to reconsider the screen size.
     
  8. Smegwarrior

    Smegwarrior Fighting the war on smeg

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    New CRT projectors can be bought from either VDC (Video Display Corporation) who make the Marquee 9800 and 9900LC or from Barco who make the 909s but unless you want to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a new CRT projector which quite frankly is a premium that is not worth paying you will have to go for a used one but it will still outlast any LCD/DLP projector you buy brand new.

    Tubes are rated for 10,000 hours of use but you can get more than that if set up properly and you don't drive them hard, older SD only projectors like mine are rated 20,000 hours because they are not as bright but you will get more than that (mine is over 80,000 hours and still going good).

    Burn in is only a problem if you leave DVD's or games on pause for 20 - 30 minutes or more (the manual says 1 hour or more but I am cautious) but even LCD/DLP projectors and panels suffer from burn in.
    I have never had a problem with burn in and I have used mine for 30,000 - 40,000 hours of gaming (lots of 24 hour game sessions) and 20,000 hours of movies/TV.

    For a quality CRT projector go to Curt and buy from him as he backs up what he sells and it will be in decent condition to begin with but he is in Canada so shipping may be a problem unless you live there as these projectors weight between 40Kgs and 100Kgs (9 inchers like G90, 9900, 909s).

    If you go the fleabay or Craigs List route then it will be more of a lottery unless you do some reading over at Curt's forum to find out what to look out for and inspect the projector before buying it.
    Have a read of the CRT primer that he has on his website.

    Some projectors (all HD capable) to look for are:
    Barco:
    8" tubes will do 1080i (some can do 1080p but look a little soft): G808, G808s (s = better), 1208, 1208s, 1208/2, 1208/2E.
    9" tubes will do 1080p (no problems with softness): 1209 (same variations in models as 1208) and the king of all CRT projectors 909s (still used in military flight simulators where image quality is a requirement, most Barco's were until a couple of years ago).
    Marquee:
    8" tubes: 9800, 9800LC (LC = liquid coupled, reduces haloing and improves contrast but reduces brightness a little).
    9" tubes: 9900, 9900LC, 9900LC Ultra (Ultra has some extra features that might not be useful in most home theatre setups).
    Sony:
    8" tubes: VPH1250, VPH1252, VPH1270, VPH1271, VPH1272, D50, G70.
    9" tubes: VPH1290, G90 (best of the Sony's, built like a tank)
    NEC:
    Lots of different models but are very difficult to get set up properly although they give the best image and colours.

    There are many more models from each manufacturer but they are the better ones and will all do HD.

    Projectors to avoid:
    Ampro:
    Most owners spend more time fixing them than watching them.


    Your budget is a little low for a complete setup if you are fully renovating the room as well, you could easily use up 1/3 of your budget just getting the room to the point of installing the equipment and that is if you are doing most of the work yourself, if you are paying someone to do it professionally it can use up all of your budget just on the renovations.

    If you are an audiophile you could easily spend your entire budget on the speakers but most people have more brain cells than ear drums :p and wouldn't spend anywhere near that much.
     
  9. wywywywy

    wywywywy Member

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    I've got an entry-level LCD HD projector (Sony VPL-HS10), and what I want to say is, if you want to go for an entry-level one (sub £500) go for a DLP instead of LCD...

    (Providing your parents don't see the "rainbow" effect!)

    By the way I think may be your should look at 720p instead of 1080p stuff.
     
  10. Flibblebot

    Flibblebot Smile with me

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    I definitely wouldn't go for a sub-£500 projector, certainly not for a DLP projector. The low-cost models have fewer segments on the colour wheel, so if you suffer from the rainbow effect it'll be far more noticeable on a cheap projector. Likewise for cheap LCD projectors, you're more likely to suffer from screendoor and a low-lux images - however, at the cheaper end of the market, I'd recommend LCD over DLP (mainly because rainbow effect is more distracting than a bit of screendoor).

    For a $6k budget, you won't get anywhere near a CRT projector, but you should be able to get a fairly decent projector, speakers, amp & DVD player. Don't forget those interconnects, either - you should be budgeting a fair wodge of that budget on cables (5.1 uses a lot of speaker cable!)

    How are you planning on custom making the screen, btw? Don't think you can get away with a can of white emulsion - that won't give you anywhere near a good enough picture. There are also other considerations you need to take into account, such as seating position, screen height, projector height etc. PM me if you want to know more.
     
  11. Ultimate Gamer

    Ultimate Gamer New Member

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    Whiteblackout cloth from the fabric store also know as curtain backing! :) good stuff

    i also have speaker cable quite a bit of it and theres some in the wall but not wired right i think its 5.1 not sure.
     
  12. Ultimate Gamer

    Ultimate Gamer New Member

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  13. Smegwarrior

    Smegwarrior Fighting the war on smeg

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    Some good points about digital projectors and screens but the price of CRT projectors has come down a bit, you won't get a decent Sony 1290, G90 or Barco 909s or Marquee 8800, 9800 for less than $6,000 but the other models I mentioned can be bought for less.

    Sony 1250, 1252, 1270, 1271, 1272 can be bought for less than US$1,000 in decent condition.
    Sony D50, G70 can be bought for less than US$3,000 in decent condition.
    Barco 808s can be bought for less than US$2,000 in decent condition.
    Barco 1208s, 1209s and variants can be bought for less than US$4,000 in decent condition.
    NEC PG9 and others can be bought for less than US$3,000 in decent condition.

    All will outlast the digital bulb burners and are cheaper to run especially when you factor in how many bulbs you would need to buy to get the same number of hours as you would from the tubes in the CRT projector (assuming the rest of the digital PJ is still working after 3,000 - 5,000 hours as most don't last that long), the rest of the CRT projector will last more like 70,000 to 100,000 hours or more.
    New replacement or rebuilt tubes can be bought from VDC for most of those CRT projectors, rebuilt tubes cost about US$600 each, new tubes vary depending on type.
    A set of 3 tubes works out far cheaper than the number of bulbs you would have to buy to feed a digital bulb burner to keep it going for 10,000 hours minimum (assuming you get VERY lucky and the digital lasts more than the less than 3,000 hours they average before becoming bin food).

    For a screen you want matt white only, beaded screens are bad because they throw light straight back at the projector and restrict your viewing angle, silver or grey screens mean you don't get proper white or accurate colours.

    Screen gain should be between 1.2 and 1.8, most use 1.3, some use 1.5.
     
  14. Ultimate Gamer

    Ultimate Gamer New Member

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    I dont want a used one tho i never like anything used for a lot of reasons i want something brand new not decent :(
     
  15. Smegwarrior

    Smegwarrior Fighting the war on smeg

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    A decent CRT projector will beat ANY digital you buy new!

    The CRT projector I have had for 14 years will still be going long, long after ANY new digital you buy off the shelf today.

    Something being new doesn't make it better, in some cases it is worse, like CRT versus digital.

    Buy if you want to throw money down the toilet just to be able to say you bought it new, that is your choice but remember, once you switch it on it becomes used so you have just paid a premium for what?
     
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