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Playstation 3 PS3 games to use DVD9 only?

Discussion in 'Gaming' started by xenos360, 8 Jan 2006.

  1. DivineSin

    DivineSin New Member

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    Yea, i'm getting out of this discussion because Xenos will only understand whatever he thinks. This entire thread was about how ps3 games will only use Dvd9 disks (Its even the frekin title).

    Oh and xenos, you can compare two games, no matter what platform they are on. I was simply pointing out the similarities that are in the pre-rendered demo's to games that are soon to be coming to the 360. It doesnt matter about how many polygons are in each character model. I wasnt comparing the power of the systems, i was comparing what the games look like and whats in them. Again, the real time damage done in Burnout and Motorstorm. The massive amount of characters on screen in Heavenly Sword and Ninty Nine Nights.

    These are the things that people were disputing on forums to show that the video's could never be done on the ps3. Anywho, i'm jumping out of this discussion so you guys can have fun with your fanboy bickering.

    Edit: Just to make sure you can understand this. Since you have a hard time understanding things. I am saying that it doesnt matter how many polygons are in a character model. Two games can look the same, even when one system has more power and the other system has less. It doesnt matter how many polygons are in a single character model :rolleyes:. There are similarities, and there is no doubt that the ps3 is a more powerfull machine. Just like there was no doubt that the gamecube was a more powerfull machine than the ps2, doesnt mean RE4 didnt look almost identical on both systems. My point was that if the lower powered machine (360) can produce similar effects (again real time damage ect.), then it is possible that these pre-rendered video's can be achieved.
     
    Last edited: 12 Jan 2006
  2. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    Well excuse me. I was only suggesting that perhaps there was lisencing issues when using blu-ray to publish data other than video. I was offering a possible explaination, there was absolutely no need to be like that.

    :miffed:
     
  3. Kaze22

    Kaze22 New Member

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    It wasn't aimed at you I was refering to Xenos's thread in general my bad. I'll rephrase myself. :D
     
  4. xenos360

    xenos360 Banned

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    i understand commen sense and that is something i hope you develop soon. why are you comparing games between two platforms if you know what the topic of the thread is? i know its in the freakin title, do you?

    if your going to compare how close next gen games are coming sony's renders then compare games to the renders not games across platforms. i only hope someone here understand what im talking about when i say that you cant compare different games across platforms because of the art direction. you dont care how many polys are in the characters or about power comparisons but your comparing what the game looks like and whats in it? do you even realize how contradictory that whole statement is?

    that is very respectful that you finally have given up on understanding and keeping up with the discussion, i know things are beyond your knowledge right now but that will change in time, hopefully once you get your ps3 and you see that i spoke of a lot of truth. i ponder why your in half the discussions, yes your entitled to your opinion but you know nothing of bandwith, nothing of how much resolutions and effects like AA and AF tax a system, nothing of technology in general and yet you fight with your uneducated arguements and PR BS points that any fanboy would use, i guess you have your reasons that i will never understand. also im confused on us faboys having the discussion, according to you im the only fanboy so i dont think its fair to label the others in this discussion.

    i know you were aiming at me and i dont care to make enemies with you or pretend like i have all the answers. all i can say is as of right now, early on, ps3 games wont be on bluray. that is an entirely realistic and possible chance of that happening.
     
    Last edited: 12 Jan 2006
  5. DivineSin

    DivineSin New Member

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    lol, this is the kind of respect i get. Whatever, i'm not going to argue with you considering we've never even discussed the cpu/gpu of each system. You've simply stated things like 'My developer buddy told me that the ps3 cannot display HD correctly' or whatever it was you were blabbering about. In reality, i know alot about AA/AF and the CPU/GPU of each system. I've taken my time to read about them, and taken my knowledge from computer hardware to come to my conclusions. You can believe i know nothing, but you would be wrong. In fact I wasnt even talking about how powerful the systems were, i was simply trying to prove a point that the renders could be possible on the ps3 because your seeing them on the 360. But yea...nice flaming you have there. I'll let the mods take care of you, since all you can seem to do is be childish in a discussion.
     
    Last edited: 12 Jan 2006
  6. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders Active Member

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    Some magical developer friend of mine said the XBox 360 was even slower than the original. . . :rolleyes:

    Anyways, here it is a Sony press release with the specs for the PS3: http://www.us.playstation.com/Pressreleases.aspx?id=279

    Look at the bottom secti on of the chart, the area where it describes the media- and under Blu-ray disc it lists a Playstation 3 BD-ROM. Oh my god, Sony, who co-developed Blu-ray is going to piss of every hollywood studio!! :eeek:

    Anyways- the idea that Hollywood studios don't want to introduce Blu-ray to fast is incredibly stupid. Blu-ray is competeing against HD-DVD, one of the two formats needs to be released first. Next up- Blu-ray doesn't want to make Blu-ray recorders common? Right. . . What happend when CDs were released- there was no recordable format, same for DVDs (thats why we have DVD+/-R/RW, and DVD-RAM too. . .). Blu-ray? The recordable format has already been developed.

    Why does a console need more than a DVD9? For the same reason Hollywood needs more than DVD9 high-deffinition. Higher resolution images and videos take up more space than the current low resolution images and videos.

    L J
     
  7. automagsrock

    automagsrock New Member

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    As true as this is, we also must remember that the Xbox has more RAM and a faster FSB thus increased bandwidth over the PS2 allowing it to be faster. What I assume from reading that wiki post and remembering back when the PS2 was released, was that a 1 GHz AMD Thunderbird and the 1 GHz P3 were the faster processors of their time. The 733MHz P3 was what most people had in their PCs at the time and thus, the comparison was made.

    Hell, the RAM in the Xbox has almost twice the bandwidth then most PCs of the time when the PS2 was released.


    But, as for the blu-Ray vs. DVD-9 thing, I really don't care. As far as I am concerned I will just be happy with what I have now and wait until the smoke clears after the initial bombardment of the Sony vs. MS console war.


    Viva La Revolution! (Only next-gen console I really care about :))

    Now back to your regularly scheduled posts...
     
  8. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders Active Member

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    Now really, lets just all trust the XBox 360 fanboy. He's competely right, PS2 graphics are sooo horrible, and the PS3 WILL BE a failure.

    None of that really explains why every store has far, far more space for PS2 games than XBox and Gamecube combined. . .

    I'm off to pray to Microsoft and sacrifice my first born child for an XBox 3. . . I mean 360.

    :rolleyes:

    L J
     
  9. Darv

    Darv Bling!!

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    PS2 graphics do look horrible though. :eyebrow: Have you seen the differences between the versions of Resi 4. The PS2 looks a generation behind.

    And IMO the PS3 will be a failure in some ways. It's so overhyped that they'll never manage to actually deliver.

    Of course comercially it will be a success because the average consumer is an idiot. How else do things like the Crazy Frog appear. And worse still, how is the Crazy Frog racing game above Mario Kart DS in the software charts :wallbash:
     
  10. NuTech

    NuTech Well-Known Member

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    I have a bit of a theory on this situation. At the moment the consensus among pretty much everyone (developers/publishers etc) is that HD-DVD/Blu-ray is not yet needed for games. DVD-9 does a good job and if you use 2 or 3 (which probably still cost less than 1 HD-DVD or Blu-ray disc) you have 18/27GB respectively.

    Anyway, back to my theory. I think there is a chance that when the PS3 is eventually released in the western market (probably January 2007 at it's earliest, let's face it, Sony can come to the party as late as they like and it will still be a complete success) there will be 2 SKU's similar to the 360. One with a Blu-ray drive and one with a DVD-9 drive instead. The simple reason is that Blu-ray is a brand new technology and the price will stop Sony from achieving the market share they're use to. IIRC the two stand-alone Blu-ray drives out soon are both $1000+.
     
  11. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders Active Member

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    Erm, if you look at the history of Sony they are not exactly new at releasing new technologies. Remember when the FD Trinitron WEGA was released? That TV set new standards for every other television on the market. Think back to the PSX- it had one real advantage over the Nintendo 64- CD audio vs. midi audio (plus a far better controller design. . .) and which one achieved far more sales?

    Darv- all things considered the PS2 is the oldest of the current generation consoles. So you can name one game? I'm too lazy to look up screenshots, nor do I really care to do so. I go by what my eyes see in the games I own. Another thing, I did not claim the PS2 graphics were amazing, I pointed out the fact every single XBox fanboy will claim an Atara has better graphics than a PS2 or any other console out. . .

    To restate my belief that Sony knows what they are doing- look at their share of the market.

    L J
     
  12. xenos360

    xenos360 Banned

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    i love it that just because i have a 360 influenced nick im automatically labeled a fanboy and people start to put words in my mouth which were never stated.

    Colonel Sanders: when did anyone say that the ps2 has bad graphics? or that the ps3 was going to fail? we all know that the ps3 will be a success and will more then likely be the market leader in the next gen as well. IMHO all three of the next gen systems will enjoy a healthy market shair. the ps2 was mentioned in the fact to what the emotion engine was and how it did not live up to expectations. also im sorry to break it to you but the graphics are sub-par when compared to the graphics by the xbox and gamecube. you can go ahead and mock me and my source, however you do know that even if only the launch/launch window of games were pressed on dvd9 and all the rest were put on blu-ray, my source would still be correct. i have said it many times, never has it been said that games will always be on dvd9 on the ps3, just the beginning. it could be only at launch, a couple of months, or years and more. as long as only the launch titles are in dvd9, then my quote is accurate. there is no need to insult, mock, or make claims when no one is saying anything negative about your favorite company.

    automagsrock: i agree, i know that the difference in bandwith and memory makes a huge difference. my main point of talking about the emotion-chip is to show how it did not live up to sony's overhyped claims. i believe the same will be with the Cell, now i know it is a powerful CPU, no doubts there. however when AMD and Intel already have CPUs in the making that will beat out the Cell, it kind of puts things into perspective that the Cell chip will not be the "next big thing" like sony is claiming (again). also im right there with you that i think that the revolution will be awsome :rock:

    this topic was just meant to ivoke the thought that ps3 games on dvd9 is a real possiblility. it was never meant to start flaming or debate like this.
     
  13. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders Active Member

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    Xenos- you have made many statements calling Sony a bad company and projecting the failure of the PS3- like complaining about the cell. Fact is when the Emotion Engine was released, it was a very powerful chip. The Graphics chip? 75million polygons/s when the XBox was based off of a GeForce 3 with magical performance of 130million polygon/s. . . Talk about over hyped- MS quadrupuled the performance numbers of the GPU!

    I realize the claim'd 2.18teraflops from the Cell is one hell of a nice chip. In a couple months, it might be outdated. For the time being, it is a very nice chip. I love the idea of it's architecture by using several small processors to accomplish more tasks at the same time than one lone powerfull CPU.

    I have provided an old Sony press release proving that Sony plans to released games on blu-ray discs, I probbably should not have used so much sarcasm when posting that, but the post is made. Really, was a whole thread needed just to state that a lot of PS3 games will be able to fit within the what 9GB of a DVD9?

    L J
     
  14. xenos360

    xenos360 Banned

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    never have i said that the ps3 will fail, i have said that people should not buy into the hype again as they did with the ps2. i have also never gone right out and said that sony is a bad company, i just dont agree with their business practices (decieving the public, over-hyping beyond competitors, and mud slinging). anything to reflect on them being a bad company from me comes from there sub-par products in the home theatre area (except for their TVs which are great but overpriced). also i have not complained about the Cell, just explaining of how it, like anything else, has its drawbacks. i never said anything about how the ps3 will fail or how it was a weak system. its a fact that it is a powerful system and it will be very successful. i just try to bring some people back down to reality in expectations so they arent let down twice in a row. as for the bloated polygon count, they both over estimated their poly count where nintendo was the only company to be honest with their 10 million count. no matter to how powerful the emotion engine was, it was still a let down to developers and did not provide toy story like graphics, those were my main points.

    also the 2.18 teraflops is from the total system specs with the majority coming from the RSX chip not the Cell chip. the Cell makes up 218 GFlops of the 2.1 Tflops. like i said the Cell is powerful but not the next big thing that sony is claiming.

    i didnt take the sarcasm to heart as it is everywhere on this forum, so no biggy. no one is doubting that sony is planning on releasing games on bluray and if they are on bluray at launch then hey im wrong, i wouldnt hide from it. however like i said even if only the launch titles are pressed on DVD9 then my source was correct. the point of the post was not to show how ps3 games will fit just fine on dvd9 but to bring the possiblity to surface that ps3 may in fact be on dvd9 games and not bluray in the beginning.

    as much as people here see me as a "fanboy" i dont get protective on someone downplaying the 360 or revolution as long as its factual and they have a good point. in the same fasion i know the ps3 will be powerful indeed but not in the unrealistic level that sony is leading people to believe. i dont care to make an enemy with anyone here and IMHO you cant go wrong in the next gen and it will all come down to your game preference. in the end we all win as gamers :thumb:
     
    Last edited: 20 Jan 2006
  15. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders Active Member

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    So saying that blu-ray is not a good selling point, and predicting that the PS3 is "overhyped (though saying it as if it were fact. . .) is not stating anything bad about the PS3??

    And you feel a company that decieves the public, over-hypes their products, and "mud slinging" is not a bad company? I can see why you like MS. . .

    You have to remember, the Emotion Engine was a very nice chip at it's release. Toy Story like graphics? I don't remember any such claim. . . Granted, when the PS2 was released and considering how far ahead of the competition it was, I can understand Sony rightfully saying the graphics would be great. I will say that I can hardly see any flaws in the PS2 graphics.

    Who developed the Emotion Engine? Sony and Toshiba. Who is developing Cell? Sony and IBM. IBM has far, far more credability than Toshiba in the area of CPUs. . .

    As for competitors to Cell I'm quite interested. . . AMD does have plans for a multi-core processors, and AMD already had dual core CPUs- but 7 or more CPUs, at an affordable level? Sounds possible and I would like to see a link to read more about this.

    L J
     
  16. xenos360

    xenos360 Banned

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    i dont get your point of bluray as a selling point. yes they are using it as a selling point but in gaming it really makes little difference. sony mainly included it in the ps3 to grow their user base of bluray players, not to benefit game developers, regardless of what sony says. and no i dont think that talking about how overhyped the ps3 is talking bad about the system, it is mearly talking on a realistic and honest level. its not like im saying that the ps3 will be a piece of **** or is a weak piece of hardware.

    EVERY company will say something at some point to downplay the competition, even nintendo. however when comparing microsoft to sony, its obvious which one of the two has played the more childish and unproffesional role of smack talking. at least microsoft has acknowledged that the ps3 will be a powerful system (their reference to both systems being "ferraris"). as for decieving the public and over-hyping, what has microsoft done? their main way of spreading the word of 360 is to just let the journalists and public play unfinished, ****** looking (compared to final code) games to let the public make their own opinion. microsoft has been pretty straight forward in showing the public and industry to what the 360 will be capable of. there is a HUGE difference between a company who puts out kiosks to show off its hardware while the other company will show rendered movies to display its console :rolleyes:

    as nice as the chip may have seemed, it was below developers expectations and easily overshadowed. since you dont remember the claims for toy story graphics im sure there is much about the last gen that you dont remember. the ps2 really wasnt that far ahead of the competition and even lacked some effects that the Dreamcast offered, there is a HUGE difference between tech specs and real world performance.

    just by you saying that you see hardly any flaws in the ps2 graphics speaks wonders. yes you could have an opinion that the ps2's graphics are just fine, but to say you dont see any flaws is ignorant. low res. washed-out textures, jaggies everywhere, and overall lack of polish is aparent in most ps2 games regardless of how good they are.

    use google they will give you plenty of links. i do a lot of research but mainly console-bound research, there is no one stopping anyone here from doing their own research and seeing that what i say isnt fictional.

    again im not trying to debate here, it just seems that what i say the ps3 will be doesnt agree with your expectations and so you have a problem with me because of this. the ps3 and 360 will both bring us gorgeous games beyond words, so dont stress it too much, real world performance is always lower then what the spec sheets say.
     
    Last edited: 20 Jan 2006
  17. Unified_Shaders

    Unified_Shaders Banned

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    Umm ya forgot Toshiba :duh:

    Toshiba co-developed the Cell with Sony and IBM. Talks just ended concerning further partnerships for the Cell in the coming years, and Toshiba didn't sign on. But the Cell you will get in a ps3 was developed by the 3 jointly.

    Update: Correction...

    Toshiba has indeed signed on for another 5 years to keep the Alliance of the 3 together.

    Emotion engine..hahahahahahahaha :clap:

    Still waiting for toy story like games that Kutaragi promised. Guy is a pos.
     
  18. automagsrock

    automagsrock New Member

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    Yes. Ken Kutaragi is a POS. Wow....



    Back on subject,


    DVD9 and Blu-Ray both would be fine choices for games. You could, say, have companies who don't have a lot of money put their lower priced budget titles on DVD9 media to save costs. While the big names (EA, Polyphony, Konami, Capcom, SEGA, etc.) could use the more expensive BR media for larger games that contain more data then a budget title. Now I know this seems dumb, but I think it's a good idea. I have quite a few budget titles that I enjoy playing and if they were even cheaper, maybe they could focus on some important subjects like overall polish and decent voice-acting.

    One question, how much do companies spend a year on DVDs? I know they aren't expensive any more, but how much of a factor does the choice of media play in the final MSRP?
     
  19. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders Active Member

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    Xenos- I have made my points and that is all I shall say except one final remark. Don't "put words in my mouth". There is a big difference between saying the PS2's graphics have hardly and flaws and claiming they are flawless. Hardly any flaws admits you see a jagged edge every once in a while. The only time I ever notice a jagged edge is when I'm searching the screen for them. I think the PS2 graphics look great, and I don't see any large problems or "flaws" in the graphics.

    DVD9 vs Blu-ray it's nice to know developers can use DVD9 or blu-ray. If they can kram the game onto a DVD9 and save some cash, then let them do it. But if they want to put as much content as possible- it is great to know that Sony will be including a blu-ray drive and shall have games on blu-ray media.

    L J
     
  20. xenos360

    xenos360 Banned

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    i agree that it is nice for the developers to have the option on the ps3 even though content takes up almost no space on a disk. and i will respect your opinion on the ps2's graphics, while you only see jaggies when you look for them, i see them everywhere as well a many other flaws, but that is just the video nut in me :D

    we all have fun with our games of choice and thats what matters most IMO :thumb:
     

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