Motors Question for the Americans amongst us...Or anyone versed in LPG.

My mate wants an old American pickup. Ford F100/Chevy stepside kinda looking thing...cruise/rod style (lowered, smoothed bodywork, clean, tidy look...)

He just wants to know how receptive the Ford and Chevy smallblocks are to LPG conversion and what kinda mpg numbers he could expect. Not having dealt with these cars in anything other than a passing manner before, I can't halp him. Oh and he doesn't have net access to look stuff up.

I've got to agree with him - I've always loved the look of these pickups. I know they're not that fast and that they will handle about as good as a quadraplegic donkey on disco fudge but they look great. http://www.kmrhr.freeserve.co.uk/rides57/smanners56 f100 2.jpg



Is LPG even that big in America? From googling a little, smallblocks seem to be a relatively easy conversion.

For those in the UK - how easy is it to get LPG/what kinda savings can you look at?

*n

 

Tell him to give my mate Nick a ring @ www.fesautogas.co.uk (the site is **** but the company isnt!) whilc Nick won't be able to sell him the bits (Nick deals with garages only) he will know what kit will/won't work and who to put your mate in touch with.
If he gives them a call he needs to press 2, to get through to technical.

 

Although not an American (but if the Australian Prime Minister becomes any closer with George Bush, I might involuntarily become one), I do know for a fact that Ford F-series and Chev pick-ups are both commonly converted to LPG (we've got quite a few old F-series pick-ups around here, and most are on LPG). To be honest, that's really the only way to own the things, unless you happen to own a small oil field, because fuel consumption is terrifying, especially so for the old ones.

 

My said friend Nick above, is after a F150 Harley Davidson model, and 99.9% of them are LPG from stock because of the fuel needed.

 

The newer ones look rather too big...

However, 40s/50s trucks look great in my opinion.

*n

 

Nick wants a huge F150 to lug stuff about in the boot, and seems as it will be the main company car needs to be something a little special and memorable, but he's not sure how Ali will cope with it, he doesn't think she'll like it much.

 

Not 100% sure what you mean by LPG, I assume it's the same as what we call just LP (liquid propane). If so, there isn't many people who convert them over here because of the relatively low price of gasoline, however there are many company's (mainly electric utilities and buses) who have LP converted vehicles. Most of these conversions are Ford Rangers and Chevy S-10's. That said, I don't know if you'll be able to convert an older engine like it seems you want to. You may end up throwing a newer small block (think at least a 305ci for a truck like that) in it.

 

From what I've read, the 5 litre Ford engine sounds like a damn good engine...

Keep it standard other than fitting EFi.

I talk too him too much - I want one too now

*n

 

mmm ford 302 blocks can be beasts! not as powerful as the 5.8L (351) but they certainly hold their own


you'd have easier luck converting an older block to lpg as its made of stronger stuff

(some of the newer blocks are a bit weak, case in point the block in my civic which i blew part of a piston rod through the other day...)

 

To be fair, he doesn't want complete overkill.

Its not going to be raced, its not going to be used to haul trees. Just a nice looking car to drive round in that will cope with town and motorway driving.

*n

 

Actually, if he's going to be doing serious work with it, he needs the 351. The 302s were decent engines, but not meant for where they were put. A 302 has enough stress just hauling the truck, when you start putting heavy equipment or trailers behind it you'll find yourself flooring it to get up to 30mph, and my guess is with an LPG it'll have even more trouble. Odd we were having this discussion in my friend's garage the other day...
The general consensus was that the 302 would be good for small trucks, but stepping up to large trucks like the 80s/90s F150s/250s it just didn't have the hp to move the truck and get decent mileage. Could get decent mileage and drive like a grandma, or drive like a normal person and get <10mpg...
There are threads all over the bronco forums about how to get more power from a 302, or how to get better mileage, and there just isn't an answer. (Actually the answer is usually "Get another truck, 'cause you're not gonna get good mileage with a bronco." Though I am working on changing that, my '90 already gets better mileage than the Nissan Titans )

If all he's going to haul around is a toolbox, I'd suggest a smaller truck, like a Ford Ranger or Bronco 2. But if he's going to haul a trailer or equipment with any kind of real mass, he'll wish he had the 351. My $0.00002 (stock's low this week)

 

He's after an old-style truck. Mildly modified, street rod style...

I've confinced him to go for a Ford F1 - best looking old trucks in my opinion.

...Are you seriously telling me that a 5 litre V8 is fragile and can't pull a 1.5 tonne truck? :/

As far as LPG/performance goes, there is usually very little performance loss...In fact, if the conversion is done well and the engine prepped correctly then you may see a slight increase.

The 302 looks like the one to go for - I was flicking through a magazine from a couple of months ago (Practical Performance Car for those who care) which had a tuning/building guide for the 302 and summised it as a better option than a small block Chevy.

I really want one now Damn him.

*n

 

No, I was saying it has more trouble puling a 2-2.5 ton truck with a trailer. It's not a WEAK engine by any means. Surely better than anything chevy produced </fanboy> But for serious work, the 351 is the choice engine. </fanboy-again>

For a smaller 1-1.5ton truck, the 302 is a great engine. And the F1 would be a good truck. I thought earlier that I read he wanted a larger truck, but I guess that's all relative...

 

If he's going with a Ford F1, I'd stick with a 302 - good torque/hp vs gas milage. If he needs more, he can always gear down the tranny or rear end plus that engine is extrememly easy to modify.

 

Well ill put in my two cent. If he does get a an old truck like that, he may want to look into a newer block. They do make conversion plates for the existing transmissions on those trucks to put in a new gen block. since you guys are in europe I would recomend the gm 4.6L v6, its a tidy block and with some tweaking it can give better fuel economy and you can probly convert it to LPG a lot easier. Non the less if you do get an old truck and want to keep the motor in it change it to a fuel injection setup as that gives you better fuel economy. Btw they make fuel injection systems that bolt on directly where the carb was. I belive Holey makes em and they are not too expensive.

Sorry for the long winded remark but I hope this cna be of some help.

Also the 289ci block I recomended 4.6L motor uses the smae mounting plates as the newer gen 350Ci blocks.

--Jag

 

If he wants to fit EFi I can help him with that (just make it out of some old downdraught carbs...)

If he were to go for a V6 surely it would be easier to retin the gearbox from the V6 and just have a driveshaft made up?

I'm not overtly familiar with US-style transmissions but it seems hard to find a manual one that has more than four gears :/

*n

 

The v6 I was talking about usualy is put into chevy blazers, and astrovans. Its a smooth engine and it gives plenty of power. Fuel economy however isnt extremly gr8 but its better than a 302, or a 351, 350 etc. The v6 has the same mounting specs as the 350 from gm as i have seen a fiew astrovans be fited with 350ci motors. If you want pro advice on this thing, you may wana head out to http://www.fast-autos.net/ in the forums. There are not too many people there but the ones that frequent the room know their stuff. ask away there. oh and keep in mind these guys are yanks and love their big motors so be respectfull.

---Jag

 

Well there are conversion plates made for allot of aplications here. you can put a ford,gm,mopar motor in any car that has a big enough drivebay.

I have even seen a Porche with a 350ci gm motor fited. so ask them they will give you the most cost efective way of doing this.

p/s you may wana look into turbocharging if you get a gm motor. 20psi will do wonders if done rite. but thene again you want fuel economy and not huge amounts of power.

 

Would have thought that an engine that old is so simple that it'll run on anything at stock?