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News Racist car in Forza 2 causes controversy

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Tim S, 4 Jul 2007.

  1. completemadness

    completemadness New Member

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    whats the difference tbh

    i think this whole tolerance bullsh*t is going far too far, its OK for a black person to attack a white person (verbally or physically) because their white, but its not ok for a white person to do it to a black person
    that is quite frankly bo*****ks, the world is going crazy, hate crimes are bad, but it counts both ways - thats what people are trying to say here, and i agree 100%
     
  2. Aankhen

    Aankhen New Member

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    I considered that, but for some reason I thought the joke was too immature to be the problem… I was forgetting what people are like. :rolleyes:
    I understand that, but I must point out that while I do think extreme reactions won't help, neither will it help to stand by and watch. :( I suppose there must be a happy medium between the two that I haven't quite discovered yet.
     
  3. Neogumbercules

    Neogumbercules New Member

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    And if your people were treated like trash for hundreds (or thousands) of years,oppressed, enslaved, and had been the target of genocide time and time again through history, you would understand how something simple like a "joke" would be disgusting, and tasteless. There's absolutely nothing funny about it.

    "Suck it up."

    Suck it up? Oh, it's ok, I'll just forget that my family and people were murdered by the millions by fascists over the course of human history and laugh it off.

    Seriously, I get what you're trying to say, but it's just...so wrong.
     
  4. Neogumbercules

    Neogumbercules New Member

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    The difference is when skin heads call for "white power" they are calling for sovereign rule over "lesser" races. They are calling for a return to the days when blacks and Jews were nothing but "******* and kikes", nothing more than rodents, and it was OK to spend a Saturday night lynching them up. When black people call for "black power" they are referring to equality and justice. They are calling for cultural empowerment. There's a HUGE difference.
     
  5. airchie

    airchie New Member

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    Yeah, but it still enforces the mindset that the people are different when we should be forgetting differences and promoting equality.
     
  6. airchie

    airchie New Member

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    I get it, you feel hard done by for yourself and generations of your family.
    Understandable tbh.

    But that was our ancestors who did it, and most level-headed people these days don't think that way.
    Should we still persecute all germans for WW2?

    Going on about it will do nothing for you other than remind you of the hurt.
    Let it go and move on.
    Hate leads to the dark side remember... ;)
     
  7. airchie

    airchie New Member

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    I agree.
    A perpetrator (sp?) of a crime should be punished for that crime.
    Law & order should not consider the colour of your skin, your ethnicity or anything else.
    Even if it was a racially motivated crime, that shouldn't be taken into consideration.
    If it does, it only re-enforces a racist mindset and makes us think we are all different.
    We all bleed red tbh...
     
  8. Neji

    Neji New Member

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    qft and education.

    Is it? Is it ok with you? 'Cos I don't think it's ok at all.
     
  9. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    Of course it's not ok with him Neji, but people saying stuff like that helps them feel ok about hating darkies. Which, when it boils down to it, is what a large part of this "Oh but black people are allowed black power groups" whining is about.
     
  10. completemadness

    completemadness New Member

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    QFT

    No i don't use it as an excuse to hate black people, i don't even have a problem with black people (well at least not because their black, i do have a problem with gang violence and stuff like that, which is usually seen as a black thing, but still only a small percentage of people)

    But i know of times when black people use derogatory terms about white people (i cant remember the exact insults, but I'm sure people have heard them) - and no-one bats an eyelid
    However if a white person says something, lets say, ******, its suddenly a hate crime or something like that

    that's not right, and as airchie said :-
     
  11. cderalow

    cderalow bondage master!

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    i'll stay out of the racist debate, but i find it amusing that people claim "free speech" on stuff like this.

    They agreed to Microsoft's EULA, which clearly states the limits that they consider free speech, and things like this violate it.

    So point of fact, the jackass who thought it would be "funny" to potentially offend hundreds if not thousands of people, deserves to lose any and all ability to use Microsoft's service. Especially since it contains images that are illegal in several countries.

    What irks me the most about it... is that some people find doing stuff like this amusing, or humorous. More disturbing is that in this day and age, young people still think like that. It's one thing for my grandma to be racist in that way, but it'd be a whole other if it were my little cousins (who trust me, would get the crap kicked out of them if they even uttered stuff like that).
     
  12. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    That comes down to the perceived relative status of both groups again:
    Black people are still seen as the disadvantaged minority. So they are allowed to criticise (or poke fun at) the perceived priviliged white majority. But the reverse is considered racist.

    A similar thing can be observed with women vs. men: many commercials depict men as slightly slow and dumb, with their female counterparts being more attractive, more clever and generally getting the upper hand with a wink and a smile about "those poor men who we will indulge in their delusions of superiority, but you and I both know that women really are smarter". That is considered OK because in real life, to quote James Brown, it is still a men's world. As such, the reverse (men depicted as superior over women) is considered sexist.

    That of course does not condone racist behaviour by coloured people towards white people --and yes, it happens as often as white racism towards coloured people. The real fun starts when you are somewhere in between: you get to see both sides at work, and it gives you a rather unique perspective on the situation.

    Allow me to introduce my ethnic self: half white, half black carribean. Light skin that tans nicely at the flick of a light switch, curly hair, thick lips. Blue eyes though, which always confuses the hell out of people. My rather Arab looks causes me to be mistaken for Middle Eastern or Jewish as often as I am identified as white-carribean mixed race. I also have Chinese ancestors, but I have no obvious Asian traits (except perhaps my poor tolerance of alcohol).

    I have white family. I have black family. Never the twain shall meet at parties, because they are as racist as each other (no, I have no idea how my parents ever hooked up either. Must've be a rebellion against their parents thing). You guessed it: I am too white for my carribean family, and too black for my white family. I see racism at work at both sides.

    But if you now think I feel somehow emotionally scarred or confused in my identity, you are mistaken: I never really think about it. As a kid it never struck me as odd that my mother was black and my father white. Your parents look different, don't they? Different colour hair or eyes, different build? Well then. To me, the colour of one's skin was simply an attribute like the colour of one's hair or eyes. It's one of the many flaovours that people come in. It is not until I grew up that I understood the concept of "race" and "racism", but so what? Everybody gets mocked or discriminated against. Everybody. Because they are male, because they are female, because they are young, because they are old, because they are fat, because they are skinny, because they are poor, because they are rich, because they are the ugly nerd, or the pretty airhead, or the dumb jock who is only good at sports or the cripple in the wheelchair, or gay, or straight, or wear glasses or have red hair, even because their skin is pink or brown...

    I am a male nerd, came from the poor side of the tracks, hair curly, sexual orientation straight, coloured skin, blue eyes --the opportunity for discrimination is plentiful-- but so it is with everybody else. Life's too short to obsess about it, you know? We all have to deal with prejudice and preconceptions all the time. It starts when you are born ("It's a boy/girl!") and never stops. They will even haunt your euligy at your funeral. We all experience the unfairness of it, and yet we are still dumb enough to propagate our own. Such are people. At least we all have that in common... I prefer to quote that wise man who traveled the world and sailed the seven seas, and therefore must have some life experience to draw upon: Popeye. "I am what I am". As long as you can live with that, what does it matter what others think about you? Don't take it so personally; they're bound to be wrong anyway. As you are bound to be wrong about them. Just be who you are and get on with your life.
     
  13. Neogumbercules

    Neogumbercules New Member

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    Well put, Nexxo. I didn't mean to imply that I was Jewish, although there might be a little Jewish blood in me. I'm actually part Scottish, part Portuguese. Apparently my paternal great grandmother was half Jewish. Back in her day that part of her heritage was kept a secret in order to protect her from discrimination. If you looked at me you'd think I looked like a typical white-boy, although I never burn I just get tanned. I apologize if my strong language was offensive, but I was trying to strongly illustrate the real differences between blatant racism and what the words "black power" mean to the black community.
     
  14. airchie

    airchie New Member

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    I think Nexxo's post has killed this thread now.
    Not that its a bad pots, quite the opposite.
    He's hit the nail right on the head and I don't think anyone can really say anything against it.

    I think reacting to racist comments just fuels the fire.
    Same as anything, ignore it and it usually goes away. :)
     
  15. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Wetsander

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  16. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

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    that made me laugh loudly for the shear stupidity of the phrase, i now agree with the deletion of this car, it is now to much directly racist for my taste.
     
  17. LucusLoC

    LucusLoC New Member

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    I think the real issue at heart here is not racism, but freedom. the basic concept that speech can be regulated bothers me. but at the same time regulations on the communication of ideas needs to exist. i don't want a bunch of naked people popping up on billboards just because there is no regulation for that kind of thing. swinging back the other way again, people have a right to express their opinion no matter how stupid or morally questionable it is. and the community (such as the Microsoft community) has a right to ban people they don't want to associate with (which is its own form of intolerance). however the legal framework for this gets sticky, because for every law you enact to "protect" someone (legitimate or otherwise) you are actually limiting *everyones* right to express their ideas. with this in mind i propose a reform: public companies and institutions will be held, by law, to what is considered to be "good taste." this will regulate their external image, such as advertising in public channels (free radio, tv, billboards, things of this nature). they will still be free to advertise as they wish through private channels (paid radio, cable tv, the internet). this area will be regulated by the peoples voice. don't like something you see? complain to the host/provider/web admin. do not complain to the courts, its out of their jurisdiction. privet individuals will also be censored by the people, not the courts. furthermore it is your right to associate with whom you please. white guy wants to join the black panthers? forget it, they don't want you, thats their right. white business owner doesn't like blacks? he owns the business, its his right to hire who he wants. it is you right, then, to inform the community that he is a racist b****rd. it is not your right to get a court to hand you the job or otherwise mandate that he give you money. if he chose to sue you for slander, *then* it would be up to the courts to decide if it were true or not. if he lost then you would have the added weight in the community that the court would also claim he is a racist b****rd (plus we woul make him pay your legal fees and time). if the court decided that you were not hired simply because you were not qualified, or that someone else was more qualified and that he is actually not racist he is just doing what is in the best interest for his company. . . well now you may be guilty of slander. i guess what i'm trying to say is let the community support you. the law will provide basic human rights to everyone. those are the right to live as you please (as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else), say what you want, and the other thing provided in your respective constitutions. it will not protect you from name calling. you have a choice, you have to take responsibility for how you let words affect you. words are powerful, but your words are just as powerful as everyone else's. we are all equal there. if you say that someones word scarred you, it is only because you let them scar you. like i said i don't think pursuing legal action for what basically amounts to "creative" use of vocabulary and imagery is a good idea, even if it is in the name of "protecting" someone. after all "those willing to trade liberty for security are destine to lose both"

    p.s. if this little rant is not coherent its because its really, really late. in my current sleep deprived state it looks good to me. my apologies. . .
     
  18. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    Sound ideas, and I totally agree, but keep in mind that the community which is supposed to support you can also ostracise you. People can be gullible and not everyone has a strong sense of self or a way with words. Some people are simply more vulnerable and a civilised society protects its weak.
     
  19. completemadness

    completemadness New Member

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    well said

    also, sometimes the community can be swept away in the flow, they may be completely wrong, but its the new "thing" so they follow
    Its a nice idea in theory, but in practise, human nature just gets in the way
     
  20. K.I.T.T.

    K.I.T.T. Hasselhoff™ Inside

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    As a side note and something that's always been interesting to me; Hitler was neither blonde haired nor blue eyed so how on earth could he go around pedalling the Aryan race being superior when he didn't conform to its image because surely despite him being the Fuhrer that would make the people of Germany at the time better than him....

    Personally i think everyone in general is just too sensitive about things like this, if you don't like it then don't look at it no-ones forcing you too. i to be honest had a quick chuckle about it when i saw the car (Not that I'm pro-Nazi/racist/discriminatory....i guess i gotta cover my back before the P.C. Police come and hit me with their ban hammer)
     
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