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News Racist car in Forza 2 causes controversy

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Tim S, 4 Jul 2007.

  1. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    Well you finding it funny and then claiming not to be racist or neo-nazi does beg the question: whats funny about that?
     
  2. K.I.T.T.

    K.I.T.T. Hasselhoff™ Inside

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    what was funny is that this is what a game that has such a cool concept behind it would end up getting used for something like this, that this was the best use people could find for it....i am most decidedly not a neo-nazi, nor a racist and my chuckle was definately not a "haha i hate black people" sort of chuckle, i resent even the thought of that implication.
     
  3. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    Yes, obviously the fact that people have taken the option to be able to customise their in-game cars and decided to wave the neo-nazi ****wit banner around is hilarious.

    And you can't rightly resent people thinking. Unless you want to start punishing people for thoughtcrime?
     
  4. completemadness

    completemadness New Member

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    well after seeing the other side of the car, this is so clearly racist that there is no arguing that can really be done

    And therefore the car breaks MS's EULA and should be removed, end of story
     
  5. friskies

    friskies New Member

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    It`s just stupid. This is a video game, children play it, and children shouldn`t be exposed to that kind of crap.
     
  6. airchie

    airchie New Member

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    Should they be taught history in school?
    Isn't this also 'exposing them to that kind of crap'?
     
  7. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    Different context, and different value judgements.
     
  8. Bungle

    Bungle Rainbow Warrior

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    But where do you draw the line. If you say this is ok, so you allow this also..
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-08-24-hitlerrestaurant_x.htm
    MILLIONS of people died http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/warstat1.htm#Second to stop the Nazi war machine, do you think out of respect for their sacrific we should allow this kind of vile crap? Remember, it's what this symbolizes is the problem here.
     
  9. chiper136

    chiper136 New Member

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    ...yea but black people didn't ship white people over seas to become slaves...
     
  10. SPQQKY

    SPQQKY Evil Modder

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    What happened to freedom of speech? If people want to be idiots, we have to tolerate it if we want to live in a democratic society.

    My friend got into a nasty fight a few years back as he was attacked by two black guys intending on robbing him as he left a club. Now my buddy beat the crap out of both of them, one got it pretty bad and ended up in the hospital and my friend got arrested even though he was deffending himself. It ended up in the papers as a hate crime, my friend was the bad guy somehow and they called him, and I quote "nazi" and "evil incarnate". After the smoke cleared we got quite a laugh because my friends best bud is black. He even had some business cards made up as a joke with his name and those terms on it. Anyone else would have seen those cards would have thought it totally racist, but we found it quite amusing because we knew better.
    My point is we can all see what we want to see in something, no matter what it may be.

    I have a carlos mencia mentality, if you can't laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at. Some people are to wound up with the whole issue, which only fuels the fire. Who would have ever thought the most popular golfer in the world would be black (tiger woods) and the most popular rapper would be white (M&M).

    We simply all need to embrace the idea that we are all different and not just black people being different from white, I mean even the differences between white folks and other white folks, etc., etc.. If we all looked alike, listened to the same music, ate the same food and wore the same clothes, this would be one mighty boring planet.

    Now the guy that made that car is not totally worthless, he can always serve as a bad example.


    Politically correct

    I don't recall shipping any black people overseas to become my slave.......let me check my organizer.....nope, not there....what's my point? Although we shouldn't forget the past, we need not dwell on it and we need to look forward. No one alive today owns a slave and no one alive today has ever been a slave.
     
    Last edited: 9 Jul 2007
  11. cderalow

    cderalow bondage master!

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    freedom of speech is limited to venue. just like in a bar, the proprietor has the right to refuse to serve you, places like online communities have the right to put a stifle on what you can and cannot do as a member of their community. As such, places like this forum, and other online or virtual communities aren't democracies, they're dictatorships. granted, fortunately you have a right to choose not to be a member if you so decide.

    I thought I'd clarify... M&M is a chocolate with a hard candy shell. Eminem, is a white (crappy & controversial) rapper.

    While slavery in most civilized countries is frowned upon, there are still places in the world where slavery is still practiced, as such, there are people alive (maybe even some on this forum depending on where they are from), who have, or whose parents have had slaves.

    I do however agree with you, that something that happened long ago in our past isn't something that should effect our everyday lives, but it should still be remembered as a moral atrocity, just as the Holocaust should be.
     
  12. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    Not if they become hurtful idiots inciting to hate crimes. With freedom comes responsibility.

    I am sure that if the black dudes had managed to mug him, those same papers world have talked about how black gangsta rapper culture is creating black hoodlums or something. Tabloids will be tabloids. Now what was that whole "with freedom of speech comes responsibility" again?

    Think again. Research shown that income potential is strongly associated with skin colour. Someone definitely wants things to be back to the good ol' cotton-pickin' days of Dixie (or the Third Reich). It is the fascists/racists that are being nostalgic.
     
  13. SPQQKY

    SPQQKY Evil Modder

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    Which was my point entirely, the papers made a mess out of it, turning it in a direction that was totally incorrect. Again, the fuel for the fire. The real racist here wasn't my friend or the muggers, the racist was the one who wrote the article and using his reach to the community to incite more hate.
    It was easier to write M&M, I'm sure everyone knows what I meant. My point was, ask an average guy to name a rapper and Eminem will quickly come to mind, ask him about a famous golfer and Tiger Woods will come to mind. While I think Eminem is a total joke, just the thought of a white rapper a handful of years back would have been thought obsurd, same as a black guy winning golf tournaments 50 or 60 years ago when they weren't even allowed on a golf course except to caddy. I think my point was that no matter where we were in the past, let's look at where we are and where we might be in the future. Yeah, history shows us just how foolish we have been, I mean some really terrible attrocities. And although there are still some bad things going on, as a whole people are still growing and changing for the better.
    I look at my own post and realize it seems sarcastic and gruff and I apologize. I am looking at my countries past and not outside the box, again I apologize. I was only trying to make the point like I stated above, what has happened in the past sucks, but don't dwell on it and cause it to hinder our progress, let's all move forward together.

    I realize I was totally unclear on that matter, I remember being told this once by a teacher many years ago and it stuck with me "we have the right to swing our arms around and dance in a circle like a fool if we want and no one can do anything about it, but if it interferes with others (those swinging arms strike someone or the dancing knocks someone down) then we can do something about it." I did say the guy who made the car "isn't totally worthless, he can always serve as a BAD EXAMPLE". To say he has no right to display his car because it incites hate because of the nazi symbols, well, sadly he still has the right for that part, whether I or you agree with what it stands for. The other side of the car is where the line had to be drawn here.
    While I do agree that hiring of jobs may ultimately depend on a racist in a company and that sucks (this is totally random really depending on the mentallity of that person, most probably even unknown to the company he works for). But it can also go both ways, this isn't isolated to the black community. If a manager at a store needs to hire help and he picks someone simply because he is the same race, then that is totally lame. But to say society on a whole wants to opress a certain group is obsurd at best. I know this may sound harsh, but unfortunately they sometimes bring it upon themselves because they have that thought process to start with. Unfortunately this attitude may have been tought to them by their parents or peers, as I have said, those holding onto the past.
    Now if someone walked into my office with an attitude that I owe him a job because of his race or he walks in looking like a gangsta, I sure wouldn't hire him, no matter what race he is. If he comes to me dressed for an honest interview with a positive attitude, then I will hire him.
     
    Last edited: 9 Jul 2007
  14. The_Beast

    The_Beast I like wood ಠ_ಠ

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    I found it a little funny
     
  15. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    If the car is intended to incite hate crimes, then his rights in the matter are forfeit. Remember that it is not just about the car. There is a context behind it.
    The research I refer to demonstrates a Western society-wide trend, not the particular practices of one individual bigot in this company or that:
    Society as a whole does demonstrably disadvantage certain groups --not just ethnic minorities, but also women, those of short stature and the poor to name a few. Why? Because it still buys into, and propagates the self-serving attribution biases that:
    What do you expect of a bunch of savages/immigrants/women/chavs/gypsies/cripples/single mothers (delete as appropriate): there's nothing like blaming the victim for society's bigotry. But the relationship is reciprocal at best. Martin Luther King may have had a dream about the future, but as I said before, the racists are being nostalgic.
     
    Last edited: 10 Jul 2007
  16. completemadness

    completemadness New Member

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    if it didn't have "white power" and "send the ****** back" on the sides, i think it would be a lot harder to say it should be banned

    but clearly with those sayings on it, its only intent is to upset a lot of people
     
  17. SPQQKY

    SPQQKY Evil Modder

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    You seem to be, whether intentional or not, missing all of what I wrote. I said clearly that "using the nazi symbols cannot be banned", and I did make it clear that what he wrote on the other side of the car is where the line has to be drawn. Although we may not like what they represent, those symbols unfortunately cannot be cencored, at least in the USA. I, in no way, think what this fellow did was funny, cool or appropriate.
    I was more directing this at individual attitudes, and not towards the masses. I have, growing up in Chicago, seen this with my own eyes and heard this with my own ears. There are people (and a lot of them) who believe that selling drugs or robbing people is better than getting a real job. They believe it is below them to make an honest living. I've had bricks thrown through my work truck just because I had a job. I have met people that believe they cannot even get a job, so why try.....why go to school, why work, it's not going to amount to anything. I have met woman that would rather have a few more kids so they can get government support rather that earn an honest living, then leave 2, 3 and 4 year old children home alone so they can go out and have fun. It's also the "victims" (some of them) that are being nostalgic, giving up on the future because of what has happened in the past. This I blame on the society in which they live, the parents and peers teaching such terrible morals.
    So while I don't condone bigotry or racism, I also don't condone the individuals that help to perpetuate such activity.

    I am terrible at politics and it would seem I can't make my thoughts clear either, so I will say no more on this subject.
     
  18. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    Not saying that you are. We are arguing different points. You are saying (correctly) that by law, simply displaying a Nazi swastika cannot be censored. I am saying that it is the context that matters. Swastika in history books or cliche WWII movies = OK, swastika on a sign advocating hate against ethnic minorities = not OK (but then the whole sign is the problem, not the swastika in itself).
    Thing is, you will find people like that in every flavour. White, black, rich, poor, male, female, able, disabled etc. Being an asshole is an equal opportunities career. It is not racism to call such people assholes (I do so all the time --I'm equal opportunities too :p ). Racism is when you associate their being an asshole with their being black, or white, or male/female, or rich/poor, or whatever. The people you are talking about are assholes because, well, they behave like assholes, not because they belong to some particular minority group. You can't lump them together under any other category but "Assholes".

    Some assholes will make an association between their being an asshole and their ethnicity for us, using it as a justification ("What do you expect from an underpriviliged, victimised un-empowered person of colour/a woman/poor etc."), or as accusation of racism when you point out that they are being assholes ("You are picking on me as an underpriviliged, victimised un-empowered person of colour/a woman/poor etc."). They play the race/gender/socio-economic status card. That is racism too; they only level this accusation at you because you are perceived as being part of the priviliged majority... Of course, at the same time they tar all people of their minority with the same brush who ironically usually would not want to be associated with them.
     
    Last edited: 10 Jul 2007
  19. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    Did anyboy see that movie Crash? It came out a couple years ago, and I think it sums up racism pretty well.

    Basically, we're all racist, every last one of us. Black, white, mexican, woman, pakistani, rich, poor; there are no exceptions. But it is possible to look past the race and just be decent to each other.

    Brilliant movie.

    Edit: Forgot this part:
    As I stated above: There are no exceptions. Every group has been disadvantaged at some point, and slavery is not unique to Black folks.

    -monkey
     
    Last edited: 10 Jul 2007
  20. rjkoneill

    rjkoneill New Member

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    im all against stuff like this
    i cant be bothered with it
    there is too much hate going on all over the place and xbox live is just a massive place to say and do what you want because, realistically - what gets done about it?


    ive had people on my teams called things that are pretty disgraceful

    reason why
    because anyone can get away with it and nothing will be done to stop it

    xbox live it accessable
    the kids all buy a premium console and shout crap down their headset

    buy a ps3 maybe - ive noticed the only people talking on my ps3 are the ones who went out and made the additional purchase of a blutooth headset - and they use it to benefit their game

    realistically forza team should have predicted this


    IF YOU DONT WANT TO BE OFFENDED DONT USE XBOX LIVE
     
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