Recomendations on EF 24mm 1.4 L

First off, Im not buying this, Im renting it so it will cost an awful lot less

Secondly, does anyone have any experience with this lens in low light / fast shutter situations (gig photography). Im photographing a final of a battle of the bands (nottingham rock city basement, 9th June, shameless pimping I know), one of the organisers (who I have shot alot for before) asked If it was at all possible to get some shots of the full band, I usually shoot with a 50mm on a 1.6x crop body so clearly Im going to have to stand a good 15m away from the stage to get everyone in. Other solution is my kit lens which is f3.5 at best and a flash with a diffuser and reflector on it to soften it as much as possible (Not even sure if Rock City permit flashes).

I found a company renting for 7 days at £45 plus postage but was wondering if there is really a noticable difference between quality of image? or is it just not worth £45 and a bit because Im not getting paid?

 

The 24mm f/1.4 is an effective stop faster than the 50mm f/1.4, and the wider angle makes camera jitter less noticeable, so you gain about 2-3 effective stops using a 24mm f/1.4 versus a 50mm f/1.4. On a 1.6x crop body, it has a FOV of about 50 degrees, so do the necessary trigonometry. All in all, the 24mm f/1.4 makes a great theoretical lens for low-light fast-aperture short-shutter shots, especially hand-held. The 15-30 minutes I used it in no-light situations made me feel very confident in its abilities, but I'm sure Vers/Johnny/OleJ will have a much more informed opinion, and are more than happy to prove me wrong.

I would not use the kit lens, f/3.5 is useless in low-light, especially for bands. If I'm forced to use an aperture such as that, I'm also forced to resort to flash or prohibitively noisy ISO levels.

 

I gave the Kit a go once or twice before and it was dreadful, only on the grounds of using a 50 couldnt frame the shot. That and in comparison to an L series lens its blatently awful

Better get my calculator out.

 

F/1.4 is f/1.4...therefore the 24 f/1.4 is not a stop faster than the 50 f/1.4, even when considering FL, OTOH AF speed/accuracy is (the 50 1.4 is a bit touchy in low light). The effective FL on a crop body is around 38mm for the 24L, which can be a tad wide at times, but of course is nice for full-set shots. Definitely not a bad choice for stage photography, but you may find a 'normal' (50mm) lens will do better, for example the 35L (56mm FF equiv). The difference between using your 50mm and using a 35mm is gigantic, thats basically an 80mm vs a 56mm...a 24mm difference in between is an enormous one. I can't tell you which to choose since your decision should be based around your own shooting style...but I can tell you either way you go you will not be disappointed in the results.

 

This man speaks truth.

I know I am often the lone voice out in left field. But I would ask about flashes, especially if you approach them right. Then get 2 or 3 flashes with justin clamps and rig the flashes close to any stage lights, so they won't be firing from the crowd-the band won't even notice them. Get some radio triggers, in the UK I would look at bowen pulsars. This way you have your cake and eat it too. You can use the lights, or shut them off for available light shots. Complex I know, but it works.

FWIW, I shoot all my music gigs with a f/2.8 zoom. I find f/1.4 primes to be slow focusing, and a hassle to change back and forth. Even with no flashes allowed, the f/2.8 works fine. You just need to be patient and wait for the right moments. And you need good hand holding technique, and learn to love ISO 800. If I were you, I'd spring for a wide wide zoom, I think canon's is a 17-40L. That and long f/2.8 is how I would go about it.

 

What I clearly need is a 5D. Then all will be well, and my 50mm will probably suffice. I think im just going to have to go to the venue with my kit lens with the house lights on and frame up the stage and work from there, Would be a hell of a waste of money if the 24 cant even get wide enough Thanks for the advices guys

 

While I can see you wanting one, I doubt that a 5D is the magic bullet here. Learn to make what you have work. This is about making pictures, not about equipment. There is a fine line between want and need, and it's an important one to recognize if you want to get better/make money.

People laugh, but I run all my camera purchases by my wife first. Why? because I need a someone who says "why?" to me, or else I would be spending all my earnings on 500/f4 VR lenses and what not. She at least makes me sit back and think about what I need vs what I want. And that makes me use what I have to it's maximum.

 

This is where I disagree, to an extent at least. The 5D is one of the top stage/event/low light bodies and remains highly regarded to this day. Without flinching I often shoot ISO1600 and the results of doing so speak for themselves. As for the whole 'its not the equipment its the photog' saying, yes I can see where it works in some cases...but in the case of a rebel vs 5D in low light...I don't care how good a photographer you are you cannot get the same results utilizing ambient lighting. Its kind of like saying the kit can do what the 17-55 can, this may be right using identical settings, but there are substantial differences which the photographer has no control over or way of compensating. Equipment has its limits...you can push them but only so far. Point is, and this is my belief, that a good photographer can make due with what is given...but this is by no means an excuse to skim on equipment which IMO is equally important. Where the photographer is the eye and brains...the camera and lens are the means.

Also (and I know you don't shoot Canon...Nikon lover.), the 17-40 is f/4 and much too long for UWA on his rebel (16-35 f/2.8 may have been what you were thinking of), the lens he should be looking for is actually the Tokina 11-16 f/2.8 or if he'd like longer the 17-55 f/2.8...for tele the 135 f/2 and or the 70-200 f/2.8. As for primes the 24 and 35L's are outstanding for concert photography and plenty wide IMO. Rent either of them and I can guarantee you will be satisfied.

 

Right, I agree.....IF you make a living shooting music gigs. Then the 5D or a D3 is a great investment, since they would pay for themselves. I'm not getting the impression that Ninja is raking in the dough by shooting clubs every night. And since he listed "student scum" (lmao) as his occupation, this might not be the best time for him to be laying out a lot of cash on a slick new lowlight body-which I admit the 5D is (well not new, but you see the point). I would say anyone in that position should either 1. save pennies to get a new body or 2. make a spot o' cash with what he has and fund a new body. There is 3. which is to buy it with his student loan money, but trust me; bad idea.

Trust me, I love buying new equipment. I just think "buy a 5D to shoot a band, most likely for free, while a uni student" isn't the best advise in this situation, as I understand it.

 

I see your point where he may not need it, but as far as being the magic bullet (not necessarily in his case) I think it is and can be. Basically I was just making a general statement...same goes for the photog-equip. relationship ratio. I do agree that he does not need the 5D, but I would advise him to rent a fast prime for the situation he is in. I can remember shooting with an XT in low light with the kit...I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

PS, you probably shouldn't have listed that 3rd alternative , could prove quite tempting...

 

I agree with J_J. The low-light performance of the 5D is a good amount better than the xxD/xxxD bodies, but for a one- or two-time thing, it's not worth the investment. While I like to stick with ISO100 whenever I can, even my 400D can cope with ISO800 pretty well and ISO1600 is quite acceptable with a bit of NR in post.

In LR, I have NR set to 29 Lum./54 Color and that was just a very quick random guess.

Default 0/25 NR still isn't too bad all things considered.

Even better when you're not 1:1.

Pair any body with a wide, fast prime and you should be in good shape. I don't remember what the lighting conditions where like when I took that but suffice to say it was fairly dark at the time. Renting the prime for the event sounds like a good choice.

 

Eric, no one was saying that he should get the 5D, I made a statement based on a generality (5D being the magic bullet, photog/equipment importance).

 

Exactly what I was thinking while reading through this thread. I'd go for an UWA able to go to low f-stops. I think the UWA distortion would add a very cool effect to the shots.
As mentioned already don't be afraid of high ISO when shooting music gigs unless we're talking either jazz or classical where cleanliness is important for the image. Rock is all about distortion and noise

I do see your point about the 5D. My 350Ds AF is very challenged at just dim light. I've found myself wishing for better low-light AF an awful lot of times.


@NoahFuLing: Thank you Noah for putting me up there with Vers and Johnny but I'm afraid they are leagues beyond me Or maybe you just know I can't keep my opinions to myself I have my 350D w. kit lens, 70-300IS USM, nifty fifty and that's about it. Though if I'm lucky my very kind old folks might just grant my big birthday wish of the Sigma 10-20 next week I'm so excited!

 

Oh no certainly not - I was just showing that even the 400D is quite capable even at high ISO. He was the one who brought up the 5D in the first place

It will leave a bit to be desired for AF, but there you are. What may be an option is getting an external flash like the 580II and having it on only for the AF assist light - I'm pretty sure there's some way to rig it up so that it won't fire (and if not, set it to 1/128 and put something over the head so it's effectively not firing). It's just a few red LEDs so it's not too distracting or obtrusive.

An ultra-wide f/2.8 (or better) is ideal for the situation, since a lot of bodies (I think the 400D and newer, but it may be more) get increased AF speed when your lens is that fast.

 

Pretty sure they don't mind about flash...as long as you bounce it anyway. The basement has a low ceiling obv, so that shouldn't be a problem...even better would be to use it off camera as a small fill. If I was nice I'd lend you my 28-70...it'd be wide enough, but its only f/2.8

A problem with using the kit lens is it hunts a lot in low light, if you're using AF... unless your l33t (do people still say that?!?) and use MF

 

MF is pretty useless with the kit lens anyways, with the ridiculously cheap and wobbly focusing ring. That's the only thing I truly hate about the kit lens. If you can bounce a flash, then just do that and no big deal (though if they've got all sorts of weird colored lighting as is fairly common, you'll lose that to some extent).

 

I think I need to clarify that the 5D was no serious, more a case of fruitless wishing, although should I ever make any reasonable money, I would go straight for it. Seems bang on without being too excessive 1D style. As for how pro I am, I got paid £40 including expenses to shoot a band a while back, that was fun, the drummer was a little upset as he was hidden behind his kit all the time which was massive and ended up rejecting most of the pictures of him.

I made a paper reflector incase I can get away with it on the night, I live with the organiser so hes safe about it, the bands will be if it works. I guess I do class as l33t (and yes I do still say that, more tongue in cheek though), the AF on my nifty is pants at gigs and I forced myself to get better at MF. Quite like the idea of using a speedlite to emit the AF beam and not flash though, will have to investigate.

Tau, which area of nottingham are you in?

 

Haha, I've got an image of you in my head trying to hold a reflector while taking a picture in the middle of a gig...not sure that'll do ya much good. Gig photography is tricky. I actually think its easier in bigger venues, as theres generally more lights trained on the stage, and its more likely that the stage will be well lit at points, its just getting the timing spot on. I couldn't do it without a flash or a very steady hand!

I have the misfortune of living in Bestwood... what about you?

 

Its a piece of cleverly folded paper with velcro on it which attaches to the end of my speedlite. Attach it the other way around and it sticks to the flash while still going in and out of the flash bag as well, pretty nifty for the cost of a roll of tape and some velcro. Its only a small thing really, just so I dont have to point flash directly at people and dont have to bounce off the basemenc ceiling, which used to be black fabric and is now just a frame of metal runners up to the real ceiling.

The best thing about gig photographs is no matter how average they come out, they still manage to capture the energy of the performance and all musicians have ego's that need feeding in my experience and they always love seeing the pictures afterwards.

Lenton myself, a member of the university there for the next few months, then back to Mansfield. Living in any part of Nottinghamshire seems to be a misfortune

 

AH ok, i get what you mean...like a catch-light

Yeah, I would have guessed Lenton or Beeston. Heh, i actually work in Mansfield too