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Russian Invasion of Ukraine

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Gareth Halfacree, 24 Feb 2022.

  1. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    We're certainly in a whole different world than "better dead than red," that's for sure.
     
  2. Risky

    Risky Modder

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    There is a sizeable wing that is full on with Trump or in the same style without him. There is a fair number that just follow wherever the wind blows and a good number that detest the man and his politics but just want to stay elected.

    However there is a minority that were "NeverTrump" voting for Hillary in 2016 and Biden in 2020, that have formally left the party, and otheres that went along with him, but broke completely after the Jan 6 insurrection.

    The two members of congress that totally oppose Trump - Adam Kinzinger and Liz Cheney (Yes -Dick Cheney's daughter) are from the conservative wing of the party. Others are more centrist, or perhaps were more conservative, but having been abandoned by their party now find that not having a party line to push allows them to take more independent positions. There is a lot of good writing (and some great podcasts) at www.thebullwark.com.
     
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  3. Risky

    Risky Modder

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  4. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    I didn't mean to imply every Russian in London is, I hardly think sanctions would affect the man you linked to though eh?

    I saw Russians being interviewed in Moscow, generally it is the opinion that this is Putin's/The Kremlin's war and they can't really fathom it. Well, besides the old dear who said they shouldn't be fighting with Ukraine and the Ukrainian soldiers should just lay down their weapons....
     
  5. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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  6. TheBlackSwordsMan

    TheBlackSwordsMan Over the Hills and Far Away

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    I just want to say that sacrificing Ukraine to ensure peace isn't acceptable, It didn't work in '39 and it won't work now. Putin is counting on our fear of nuclear so that he can re-conquer ex-territories of the Russian Empire & USSR. If we hide under the bed now, then we'll do the same for everyone else in Europe because the stake will always be the same. The West needs to provide anti-air & anti-tank equipment to Ukraine so they can make a stand.
     
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  7. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    He likely only has the confidence to go this far bc of the sum total of **** all consequences he's faced for the last multiple times he's done **** like this.

    And Xi is probably eyeing up Taiwan thinking 'well putin got away with it...'
     
  8. TheBlackSwordsMan

    TheBlackSwordsMan Over the Hills and Far Away

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    This time, the economic repercussions for Russia will be unprecedented, I hope the Russians like to eat potatoes and get in line to buy toilet paper.
    ——-

    Taiwan is a whole different animal, they’ve been preparing for a Chinese invasion since 1949 and are armed to the teeth. Heck, they just passed a 8.6 billions$ Bill for extra military spending.
     
  9. Risky

    Risky Modder

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    We are all going to end up increasing military spending when we don't want to because that little thug wants to go down in history.
     
  10. TheBlackSwordsMan

    TheBlackSwordsMan Over the Hills and Far Away

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    The Russians have captured Antonov Airport & the An-225 Mriya.

    Here's a picture of Mriya delivering 10.3 million PPE to Leipzig, Germany, in 2020.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

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    Some shocking scenes coming through yesterday, I honestly thought we were done with land wars in Europe these days...

    From following some of the content it doesn't sound like it was all plain-sailing yesterday for the Russian forces - quite a few ambushed convoys, multiple aircraft losses (including some pretty rare assets like a pair of KA-52s), and a pitched battle at Hostomel which was attack and counter-attack.

    Realistically Ukraine can't win an open conflict, having been surrounded on 3 sides, but they're putting up a decent fight so far.
     
  12. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    The cynic in me sees Russia coming out of this emboldened and ultimately unscathed.

    It doesn't feel like it has the right blend of events to topple the Putin regime. I wonder how close we're going to get to nuclear war.
     
  13. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    Feet dragging over kicking them out of Swift.

    But they've taken the Champions League final off them! That'll show Putin.

    I mean FFS.
     
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  14. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    Fighting for your homes, friends and families counts for a lot in a battle though.
     
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  15. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    But if we kick Russia out of SWIFT, how will we pay for all the oil and gas we're still buying from 'em?

    Anyway, the ultimate sanction is still waiting in the wings: revoking Russia's Eurovision entry.
     
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  16. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    Now hang on a minute, that's a bit extreme no?!?
     
  17. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

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    On the SWIFT exclusion, I was reading a piece which reckoned that wouldn't really do a great deal to the wider economy, and force the big institutions away from SWIFT and either into crypto exchanges or the rival Chinese clearing system (CIPS?).

    Seems like a waste of time if it won't help.
     
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  18. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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  19. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    You are joking me?

    Yeah I think it's a bit more complicated than it appears to a layman like me but it was used on Iran, I think we probably have to use ever tool available.

    I think if the Swiss froze Russian assets it'd probably have more of an affect but, as usual, they're getting involved by not getting involved.

    Considering their whistleblown morally bankrupt banking system I'm not surprised.
     
  20. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    Eurovision only acts if the broadcasters violate terms, or songs make overtly political statements.

    So. Just to be clear.

    Invade country and murder people: Eurovision no care.

    Submit song that calls said invader out: Banned!

    As far as I'm concerned, the Russian regime isn't going to respond to any carrots they get - Be it SWIFT, or Nord Stream or similar - And I doubt being hit with a stick is going to make a blind bit of difference to it either. So **** it.

    Seize foreign assets of the oligarchs, eject Russia from everything that the regime makes a mockery of, force it to be openly cosy with other regimes it's already known to be cosy with. Since we're in the decade of 'find out' anyway, why not.
     
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