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CPU Ryzen 5000 set to bury Intel.

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Vault-Tec, 29 Sep 2020.

  1. spolsh

    spolsh Multimodder

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    I'm hoping to upgrade to it, price/performance depending - or maybe a (hopefully price reduced) 3900X if reviews show it to be a bust (I think thats unlikely).
    Rumors seem to suggest 20th Oct release, hopefully they'll let reviews go live before they start selling it.
     
  2. Guest-44432

    Guest-44432 Guest

    That's what I am thinking. Been looking at 3900x going for around £350 on the bay, which will drop a lot with Zen 3 release.

    I'm mainly looking to build a new PC for VR performance. This is where I am hoping Zen 3 will be quicker than Intel.
    Nothing worst than a CPU bottleneck, when my old 2080 TI would not be fully utilized, sitting at 50% usage in some games.
     
  3. xaser04

    xaser04 Ba Ba Ba BANANA!

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    Looking forward to switching out my 3950x for the new 5xxx equivalent, former will go to my wife who will really make use of 16c/32t.... :hehe:

    After this ******* year I don't really care about the "need" for the cpu, I want one...
     
  4. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

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    You can't run 6 NVMe on x570, its 4 lanes per drive, so that 24 lanes before gpu and other motherboard features, I could run my current setup as I am down to 3 drive but there's no scope for more and as yet large capacity has not come down to the price that trumps multiple smaller drives, I am considering and x8 raid card which at £350 will provide fast mass storage on x570 but the problem is the x570 boards are terrible value already compared to what's offered on trx40, adding that card does not help, the entry level chip price on trx40 though is a bit nuts because AMD chose to move 3950x to desktop, my fingers are crossed that new chips have more lanes or severely devalues the HEDT space so I can pick up some gear.

    With direct to GPU being a next gen feature on consoles and their engines plus a feature of new GPUs I wouldn't want to restrict GPU lanes, sure no issue now but can see that feature being used hard going forward as it is a console selling point so games and the engines will be built for it.

    I really fancy doing a CPU buy though just because I'm bored and want to tinker with something new, I might buy one for my daughters machine to play with when I pass on my 1080Ti, assuming it will work on a b450
     
    Last edited: 8 Oct 2020
  5. Guest-44432

    Guest-44432 Guest

    From what I understand with X570 chipset, x4 PCIe lanes are used with communication from the CPU to Chipset. So there is only x20 PCIe 4.0 lanes.
    Remember we are not using PCIe 4.0 x4 drives, but rather PCIe 3.0, which effectivly only uses x2 PCIe 4.0 lanes.

    GPU at x8 PCIe 4.0 = x16 PCIe 3.0 (x8 PCIe 4.0 lanes used)
    Lets say the board has 2x NVMe slots that run at PCIe 4.0 x4 each. (Now adding a PCIe x4 Gen3 NVMe will only be using x2 Gen4 lanes) (2x Gen3 x4 NVMe will use x4 Gen4 PCIe lanes)
    Now to add the other 4x NVMe, you would use a PCIe expansion card - Which lets say holds 4x NVMe drives. Now adding another 4x NVMe Gen3 x4 cards will equal x16 Gen3 lanes used, or x8 Gen4 for Lanes used.

    All the above equates to x20 Gen4 PCIe lanes use.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

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    It doesn't work this way, a lane is a lane regardless of the speed it runs at, without additional switches in place to aid translation from 4 lanes to 2 lanes and gen3 to gen 4, so a 4x PCIe3 card will still use 4 lanes on a PCIe 4.0 board , the raid cards I mention have PLX switch chips to perform this sort of function, motherboards don't as the price is too high.

    Also that image is wonky, on TR you don't use chipset lanes for NVMe, it uses CPU lanes for full bandwidth to CPU.
     
    Last edited: 8 Oct 2020
  7. Guest-44432

    Guest-44432 Guest

    Then please explain the image above pulled from Linus, which indicates, that two Gen3 x4 PCIe NVMe used x4 Gen4 lanes?
     
  8. Aytos

    Aytos Minimodder

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    X570 provides additional 16 lanes via chipset - this goes on top of what CPU provides. Huge number of PCIE lines is what X570 was made for. This is also why you often will hear about M2 slots connected directly via CPU vs chipset.
     
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  9. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

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    Ask Linus, I am not sure what context that image is used in but it does not back up your description unfortunately, the link from chipset to CPU has been upgraded from x470 - x570 from gen3 to gen4 doubling the bandwidth allowing you to use such drives without limiting performance, that bandwidth would still be in contention with everything else running off chipset, unlike CPU lanes.

    What ever is connect to chipset can't deliver more than 7.88Gb, so even if you had 16 lanes hanging with 4 highspeed NVMe you would never see more than 7.88Gb, these are just meant for simple IOs not things that would saturate bandwidth.
     
    Last edited: 8 Oct 2020
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  10. Anfield

    Anfield Multimodder

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    AM4 Zen2 has 24 PCIe lanes (16 go to PCIe slots, 4 to one m.2 slot, 4 to chipset).
    If you run the GPU at PCIe 4 x8 instead of PCIe 4 x16 that is always only 8 spare lanes, you can never plug 4x PCIe 3 x4 drives into those 8 PCIe 4 lanes directly (despite there being sufficient bandwidth in theory).
    You would need a chip to convert those 8x spare PCIe 4 lanes into 16x PCIe 3 lanes first.

    Because the graphic is based on the amount of available bandwidth rather than how the lanes are actually configured.
     
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  11. Guest-44432

    Guest-44432 Guest

    Yeah, I understand what you are saying now.

    That pretty much answers the question I was about to reply to sandys about.

    So is it not possible to stick a GPU in a x8 Gen4 slot, and using the other x12 lanes from the CPU for NVMe?
    This would still leave x16 lanes from the chipset, to install further NVMe's where you are not over saturating the bandwidth limit?
     
  12. Guest-44432

    Guest-44432 Guest

    Ok, so from the link from CPU to the Chipset is 7.88GB/s = 7880MB/s - That is more than enough bandwidth for 2x Gen3 PCIe NVMe's.

    [​IMG]

    Using the above image, if a board manufacture gave the motherboard 3x gen4 NVMe slots, one will be directly connected to the CPU, and the other two connected to the chipset. Given that there is 7.88GB/s bandwidth (not Gb) - The chances of over saturating the chipset to CPU link will be minimal.
    Even if the board manufacture added 2x x4 PCIe slots connected to the chipset and you stuck two 2x gen3 NVMe on an expansion boards, unless you was using Raid 0, the chances that you would be reading and writing to all drives at once is very unlikely that you would be hitting the bandwidth limit in normal use. (Workstations is another topic)
     
  13. wyx087

    wyx087 Homeworld 3 is happening!!

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    How about PCIe bifurcation?
    You can run 4x PCIe 4.0 NVMe drives on a single x16 lane.
    https://blog.donbowman.ca/2017/10/06/pci-e-bifurcation-explained/

    I remember seeing Asus offer this in my motherboard manual. It holds 4x NVMe PCIe 4.0 drives on the 16x CPU lanes, plus another one on the motherboard. Making it possible to do 5 PCIe 4.0 NVMe drives all directly talk to CPU.

    Alternatively, you can split 8x for GPU, and 8x for SSD. You may be able to split the 8x again into two 4x for two SSD's, plus motherboard onboard for a 3rd, all PCIe 4.0. Then the chipset provides one 4x NVMe PCIe 3.0 M2 slot, and a 4x regular PCIe 3.0 slot. So total 5 SSD's (three 4.0 speed, two 3.0 speed) on the lesser B550.
    X570 should be able to support more, but may be bottlenecked by bandwidth to CPU.



    Of course, if speed isn't an issue, you can always run at 1x speed. I have a cheapo M2 to 1x PCIe adaptor for testing drives. Easier to install than 4x because it's very narrow and tall. Used it to run NVMe on my i7 2700k for a while. Then you can have 20 drives!
     
  14. silk186

    silk186 Derp

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    I will be upgrading from AMD to Ryzen one way on another. Initially, I planned to pick up current get when the new series drops.
    However, if the new series has improved IPC this much I think it would be smarter to go new. If it lives up to the hype, it might be the next 2500k/2600k.
     
  15. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

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    I use raid0 as I want the capacity, so yes it does use all the bandwidth, though it is fair to say I don't need that much I just want capacity and responsiveness in a small package.I used to run many 2.5 SSDs in Raid0 but NVMe trumps it.

    Yes that is what I use but you can't do that on normal x570 boards unless you don't want a GPU, you could certainly do that in the 8x slot for two drive.

    That's interesting but probably a nightmare to wire, when I had my 2.5 SSD arrays cabling with bad enough, as I don't require speed really it is a consideration, speed is nice for the big data but x8 lanes should suffice for the most part hence why I am considering x570 with one of these which will do the down mix 4 drive from 16x to 8x and I can have fast 8Tb quite cheaply, data security is not too much of an issue, whilst I leave stuff on it, it is NAS backed up, just not seen good reviews of these in action.
     
    Last edited: 8 Oct 2020
  16. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

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    New build with new drives etc, it will be another level of performance.
     
  17. Guest-44432

    Guest-44432 Guest

    Premieres in 10mins

     
  18. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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  19. Anfield

    Anfield Multimodder

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  20. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    Although they didn't actually specify which 6xxx card it was. Maybe it's a 6700XT :lol:

    Even if it is, if the price is right, it'll do me for a few years on 1440p.

    Not sure I need a Zen 3 but that's not to say I won't be my own Santa :)
     

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