1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

"Seattle police officer punches woman"

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Sloth, 17 Jun 2010.

  1. Rogan

    Rogan Not really a

    Joined:
    6 Oct 2003
    Posts:
    2,524
    Likes Received:
    43
    I guess that's the thing we'll never know. Maybe he was sent out there just to cite people, or perhaps he was supposed to be discouraging it.

    Actually, since it's Seattle, and after a little checking they are notorious for handing out jaywalking citations. Not only that but it's common for jaywalking citations to escalate. So, it would seem that they are not trying to educate, they're trying to ticket. And it's a common problem that we've only heard about because some girl got punched on the jaw.

    It seems like there's a mix of problems - bored police, stupid laws, and a generally irritated populous. Maybe they'll repeal the jaywalking laws in Seattle now. Although it's more likely they'll just get the less-lethals out.

    I don't really understand jaywalking law, because here we have no need of it. The only UK highway you aren't allowed to walk on is the motorway, and you'd be an idiot to walk on the motorway. Obviously American legislators consider it a serious problem, seemingly citizens think it's stupid. Maybe they'll start campaigning against it instead of starting fights with police officers?
     
    Last edited: 20 Jun 2010
  2. Volund

    Volund Am I supposed to care?

    Joined:
    16 Sep 2008
    Posts:
    1,947
    Likes Received:
    65
    They also ticket for honking and are evil about parking laws as well...
     
  3. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    34,731
    Likes Received:
    2,210
    My feelings about jaywalking are: cross at your own risk.
     
  4. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

    Joined:
    16 May 2008
    Posts:
    1,802
    Likes Received:
    172
    Probably just a nice little earner for the city halls where it is enforced. Much the same as some of the petty, money spinning laws we have here in th UK.
     
  5. Sloth

    Sloth #yolo #swag

    Joined:
    29 Nov 2006
    Posts:
    5,634
    Likes Received:
    208
    Sadly, no city planning department can ever feel that way, and no law enforcement is trained to either. Doesn't reflect well on them if people go and get themselves killed at intersections they designed or they patrolled.

    The other side of the coin is traffic. I'm sure anyone who's been a city can understand. Some idiot crosses at a bad time and gets hit and you end up with the whole block congested as things are taken care of and emergency crews make their way over. Or, as is equally common, so many people just start flooding a street that even if no one gets hit the pedestrians completely own the place even with no right of way and car traffic gets backed up.
     
  6. robots

    robots What's a Dremel?

    Joined:
    27 May 2010
    Posts:
    389
    Likes Received:
    6
    WTF was he thinking? Punching her full on in the face like that, is in absolutely no way justified or even close. He should get fired and he should get his ass kicked for punching a girl. What a moron.
     
  7. Sloth

    Sloth #yolo #swag

    Joined:
    29 Nov 2006
    Posts:
    5,634
    Likes Received:
    208
    To feed the flames, what does punching a girl specifically have to do with anything? She was physically interfering with an arrest in progress. Being female entitles people to go around resisting the law all they want because they're all delicate little flowers? She's lucky she didn't get zapped by a taser.
     
  8. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg What's a Dremel?

    Joined:
    26 May 2005
    Posts:
    5,841
    Likes Received:
    80
    The monsters, impeding people in their precious motor cars. They could always, you know, leave the car and join the swarming masses and get to where they want to go with out the government having to cement the cars place in law.

    Must admit jay walking never seems to be a problem here despite double decker buses driven by homicidal maniacs few people are ever injured and even fewer deliberately swamp the roads so cars can't get passed, some times you have to realise that self preservation is actually a stronger motivator than health and safety.
     
  9. Sloth

    Sloth #yolo #swag

    Joined:
    29 Nov 2006
    Posts:
    5,634
    Likes Received:
    208
    The people who don't feel like walking 20 blocks in the rain because they actually have some place to be. Like the city buses trying to ferry people around in an efficient manner, or the trucks trying to carry things people never could to their destination so things can get done. Because sometimes things are more important than Average Joe being too lazy to walk 50 feet to the nearest crosswalk.
     
    Rogan likes this.
  10. Krayzie_B.o.n.e.

    Krayzie_B.o.n.e. What's a Dremel?

    Joined:
    2 Aug 2009
    Posts:
    427
    Likes Received:
    6
    Dam if I punch a 17 yr old girl in the face I go to jail. and all this for Jaywalking are you serious!
    I guess cops in Seattle have nothing else better to do.

    Freeze you just spilled that Latte half decaf half soy with whip cream and sprinkles I'm gonna punch you in the face. Then tase you. Then make you perform a sobriety test.

    Meanwhile someone talking and texting on a cell phone while driving just drove into a Laundromat and killed a kid. Or those murders are still unsolved or the person who broke into your house has yet to be caught.

    But Jaywalkers will be punished. Pig Head Cops like this get good cops shot.
     
  11. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg What's a Dremel?

    Joined:
    26 May 2005
    Posts:
    5,841
    Likes Received:
    80

    The UK in general has whole swathes of pedestrianised streets in the cities with shops and places of work and people who need to be some where and it rains here (a lot), shops still get stock, the buses still drop people efficiently and people for the most part cross at the lights peds reclaiming the streets isn't anarchy.

    On the continent there are whole city centres built around the concept that the person walking isn't a hindrance but a person who is trying to get some where efficiently.

    Out of interest roughly how long is a US city block (on average) i see it banded around as a unit of measurement all the time but i've no real concept how far it is in real units. Much like the flux capacitor is useful measure of power generation capacity its only really useful if you can stand up and shout 1.21 jigawatts while looking slightly maniacal.
     
    Last edited: 21 Jun 2010
  12. Krayzie_B.o.n.e.

    Krayzie_B.o.n.e. What's a Dremel?

    Joined:
    2 Aug 2009
    Posts:
    427
    Likes Received:
    6

    If someone is resisting arrest the cops are supposed to Tase or Pepperspray. He should have given her 3 verbal demands to put her hands on the car or assume the position then do the job correctly instead of grabbing a Jaywalker and escalating the situation. If she didn't comply with verbal commands then Tase, Mase, or take her down. He actually put himself in danger by just grabbing her. But as always in this Police State of a country we live in, another minority beat up on tape and nothing will happen cop will get a paid vacation at the very most.....until a cop gets shot then it's wah wah cry cry he was a good police officer.
     
  13. stuartpb

    stuartpb Modder

    Joined:
    16 May 2008
    Posts:
    1,802
    Likes Received:
    172
    How do you know that the officer didn't do as you stated, because the video started with the situation already having been escalated to physical contact. You are making an assumption that the officer did not do as you said, and I see no evidence to verify this.

    Regardless of whether the initial contact with the offender was correct or not, the second lady should not have tried to intervene. If the first lady had been compliant, she could have had her day in court, and if she wasn't guilty then the verdict would reflect this. Being aggressive with the police just serves to make a bad situation much worse, and this is something both women clearly ignored.
     
  14. Rogan

    Rogan Not really a

    Joined:
    6 Oct 2003
    Posts:
    2,524
    Likes Received:
    43
    Bit tech circular arguments are the best circular arguments.

    Some of you guys don't seem to understand why this happened or why it's defensible. I guess you can't read thread good.

    Nice to hear you point of view and get a taste of the American experience sloth, thanks.
     
  15. thehippoz

    thehippoz What's a Dremel?

    Joined:
    19 Dec 2008
    Posts:
    5,780
    Likes Received:
    174
    but you have social skills nexxo.. that's asking too much for an officer of the law :D
     
  16. BaronVonDuncs

    BaronVonDuncs What's a Dremel?

    Joined:
    8 Mar 2010
    Posts:
    24
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hmmm hard to know if you haven't seen the beginning of it all but from my own limited personal experience i have found American cops to be pushy, arrogant, rude and bullying and have enjoyed being arrested by a **** of a US cop who told me to move my vehicle and then when I repeatedly asked him calmly and at normal voice volume to explain why and what parking offence I was committing he arrested me for refusing a lawful order(its a ******** law that allows police to order you under threat of arrest and violence to obey their order to stop doing an entirely lawful activity). Equally some of them are extremely brave and dedicated public servants who do a tough, risky, mostly thankless job. I have been out with police in tough city neighbourhoods in a major US city so I recognise the risk as well.

    I agree with the earlier posters though in such a situation a well trained police officer will seek to de-escalate the situation using calming measures and to use minimum necessary force as a last resort. If letting them walk would be the least problematic outcome then so be it. People don't get prosecuted for offences all the time. I have been out with cops who calmly watch drunks piss in the street because its the end of their shift or they just cant be arsed with the paperwork. A few times I went and arrested people myself (soldier in NI in bad old days) just to then dump them over to the cops and force them to make an arrest(they loved me). I don't think civilisation would have ended if a couple of jaywalkers got off. Now though lots of people have seen this and they will no doubt have a vastly worse opinion of the police for the rest of their lives (funny how people who have to deal with cops actually think less of them most of the time.)

    So its all well and good to say she shouldn't have interfered but if a cop is one day assaulting your friend in front of you is it really so unreasonable for you to act to stop it. In fact it is totally lawful of you to do so if you are correct that an unlawful assault is taking place and whenever police step beyond the minimum necessary force provision then they are committing an unlawful assault, they do not have carte Blanche to act as they will. In this instance I would lean toward the view that the arrest was unnecessary and possible unlawful and thus the intervention was lawful and the punch constitutes an assault. But I am sure many lawyers will make a good fee out of arguing the toss when she files an assault and breach of civil rights case against the city.

    Wow. Watched the video, sorry no way is that minimum force, that's an over the top and very poor response by the officer and in my view constitutes a serious unlawful assault. I hope he is sued shitless for it quite frankly.
     
    Last edited: 22 Jun 2010
  17. Sloth

    Sloth #yolo #swag

    Joined:
    29 Nov 2006
    Posts:
    5,634
    Likes Received:
    208
    The American experience... I like that.

    And let this be a lesson learned for any tourists to Seattle: use the damn crosswalks and bridges!
     
  18. smc8788

    smc8788 Multimodder

    Joined:
    23 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    5,974
    Likes Received:
    272
    I'm off to Seattle in September :worried:

    I think I'd better brush up on the relevant jaywalking legislation before I go, especially since I've just got back from Russia where they tend to take a very different approach to crossing the road :lol:
     
  19. Rogan

    Rogan Not really a

    Joined:
    6 Oct 2003
    Posts:
    2,524
    Likes Received:
    43

    Lets be fair the cop was not assaulting her, he was trying to cuff her and being a total ***** about it. And yes, if a cop is arresting your mate, and you decide to get stuck in and assault a police officer, it's going to be one of the dumbest things you ever do. In they UK it's a bad idea, in America it' completely retarded.

    If you honestly think the correct response there is to act the big man and jump a cop you deserve your rapidly incoming darwin award.

    When you were a squaddie how kindly would you have taken someone trying to jump on you as you were chucking someone in the back of a black mariah? I'd expect the retribution would have been swift, violent, and ended in just another occupant of the van.

    As to suing - she's got no chance. The cop followed standard procedure, sure it didn't look nice, but he did what he was supposed to do. It's all in the union report. And trying to sue a cop, who you assaulted and defended himself - good luck. I don't think you could even sue a private citizen on the video evidence. Hell even in the UK if you did that it'd be an open and shut case of proportionate self defence.


    The thing about repeated run ins with the police is simply this - don't be a complete idiot and the odds of you strolling off without so much as a ticking off are extremely high. You go in there with an agenda, like you stated in your story, and you're going to get the shaft. What's more you deserve it for being a bloody idiot.
     
  20. BaronVonDuncs

    BaronVonDuncs What's a Dremel?

    Joined:
    8 Mar 2010
    Posts:
    24
    Likes Received:
    1
    Dude you weren't watching the same video I was. That was a disproportionate use of force. I say that after many years of working alongside cops in the Army and in civilian life and as a qualified UK lawyer who studied at Harvard Law school in the USA. I have seen lots of violence of all levels up close and personal and I have seen various security personal deal with it.

    In that video the second women shoved him away and he responded with a punch to the face. Totally unwarranted and an assault in my book. I am not one bit surprised at the response of the union or his police colleagues but if I were a practising lawyer in the USA I would be happy to file against the city for that and I would expect to win as well. I will be very surprised if she doesn't end up with a substantial settlement from all this so he probably did her a favour and just paid her college fees.

    I agree that 99 times out of 100 if you try to intervene when a Police officer is outside his legal powers you will most likely come a cropper and I wouldn't advise it as a prudent course of action but I admire people who are brave enough to try when they see a blatant abuse of power by a police officer. In the UK punching is in the police self defence manual as a major no no and the use of a punch except in very severe cases is deemed to be outside the accepted level of necessary and lawful force a police officer can use. The US is not as stringent and has far wider rules but none the less the use of force has to be proportionate to the violence offered against the officer. In that video I saw a fat teenager shove a police officer back a few feet and he then proceeded to punch her directly in the face. At the time he threw the punch he was away from her and she was not moving in his direction. He uses his front hand to push her hand down and punches her squarely with the back hand. That is in no universe a proportional response and thus in my view constitutes an assault. Seriously you could show this one at police training college as an example of when a punch is utterly unwarranted and disproportionate. He is a crappy police officer and he screwed up royally and I have no doubt he (or more likely his employer the City) will pay big time for that one.

    As for how I would have reacted. If in my day one of my colleagues had assaulted someone in the course of making a doubtful arrest and someone else had intervened then i would have used the minimum necessary force to prevent their attack and then written an affidavit against my colleague and testified about his initial assault. The ones who knew me knew that would be my choice as well. I don't cover up wrongdoing and I don't care what uniform someone has on wrong is wrong in my book. In this instance the police officer is in the wrong, end of story.
     
    Last edited: 22 Jun 2010
    robots likes this.

Share This Page