I am looking to build a small form factor pc, it is for my room and will only be used for light gaming, watching dvds, and surfing the net nothing that requires too much power. I already have vista home premium 32bit, as i bought this from my old pc which unfortunately got fried, and i never got round to installing it on it. My budget will be around £200- £250, however i will not need o/s or optical drives and i will buy a better graphics card at a later date so i can deal with stock graphics for the time being. I was going to install a standard 500gb sata hdd, but any advice would be apreciated. The first problem is i am not sure what case to go for, i like the silverstone sugo sg-01 evo however this does not have a window, so i looked at alternatives but im not sure about build quality? The second is the motherboard and processor, in the past i have always used AMD as their prices have been cheap and capabilities ideal for family computers. However i would like to try Intel and have the option to play higher end/more demanding games. What psu would you reccomend, as it would have to have at least 2 sata power cables, and enough power to be able to run possible an 8800gts (if it will fit in the case) Any advice much apreciated Thanks Dave
My advice would be to start by deciding on a case. Not just for looks but for functionality. It's very important with SFF to get a case you are happy with as it will usually limit your component choice. I like the look of the Sugo and Silverstone cases are usually very good quality. I have been very happy with my own SFF build - http://www.mods-n-clocks.co.uk/?p=12 - and you can buy these cases from several places including ebuyer, yoyotech and Eclipse, with or without windows and in several colours. Next most important thing is the motherboard, especially for SFF with a window. Make sure that the motherboard and case fit well with regard to cable management, headers in the right places as hiding cables in SFF can be challenging. Aim for a case that will take full size PSU and aim to factor in a modular PSU if you're going for windows!
The problem with SFF cases is that they're not really suited for high-powered gaming PCs. There's just too little space for decent cooling. With that little "disclaimer" out of the way I think you should have a look at a 780G-based motherboard coupled with either an energy efficient A64 X2 or a lower powered Phenom. A 790GX-based mATX mobo would be even better, but AFAIK only DFI has one currently available (at a hefty price). Alternatively you could look at an Intel solution, but only nVidias 9xxx-series chipset has decent on-board graphics (I believe that's what you're referring to with "stock graphics"). Personally, though, I'm wary of all things nVidia at the moment because of their manufacturing issues. Casewise I'd look at an Apevia X-QPack2 (they come both with and without a window). It's made of aluminium, has pretty good build quality and in my opinion the best layout and airflow of all SFF cases I know about. For a hard drive go with a WD SATA drive of 500+GB. In my opinion you never go wrong with WD.
They're not all as bad as people make out - sure they won't be on par with a decent ATX case but there's no reason why you can't have a pretty decent setup. My SFF has a 7900GS overclocked from 450 to 580 and a E2160 CPU overclocked from 1.8 to 3.1GHz. It's not high end but it's certainly not a celeron with integrated GPU!
The SUGO series is a nice choice for SFF systems. Between the two I'd go with the SG02 - it doesn't have a window, okay, but it's a bit cheaper and they've shoved the HDD cage over to make room for full-length graphics cards no matter where the PCI-Ex16 slot is on your motherboard. The thing to keep in mind about the SUGOs, though, is that the PSU sits directly over the CPU. Downside: If you don't want to stick with the stock cooler, your replacement will have to be pretty low-profile (~60mm or shorter). Upside: Since the PSU fan is likely directly above said cooler, you could probably get away with running it passively. Your call. The cheapest (Intel) motherboard I would really recommend going with is this one. Haven't read any reviews on how well it can actually OC, but it seems pretty full-featured for a board of its size and price range. Anybody who either knows more about it or is less lazy than I am can feel free to correct me on that. Power supply - you definitely want modular (especially in a SFF case), and you definitely want at least baseline 80+ efficiency. For a build like this I wouldn't go over 600W, and unless you're planning on sticking a QX9770 and a 4870X2 in there, even that is far, far more than you'll probably ever need. But having a little extra power is never a bad thing, and utilizing lower percentage of available power draw can help keep the noise down. So I'd go with this. 500W, good manufacturer, quiet, and (this is important) a 6-pin and a 6+2 pin PCI-E cable. Which means no matter what your GPU power requirements are - 6-pin, 2x6-pin, 1x6-pin + 1x8-pin - you are covered. Oh, and after rebate it's not all that expensive, either. So a black SG02 + the Foxconn mobo + the Seasonic PSU after rebate = $270 USD, which means you have about $100 left (yay for Google as a currency converter). If you can stretch your budget that extra 15GBP (or if you can find a less expensive PSU with 2x6-pin PCI-E cables, perhaps), you really should try to shoot for the Core 2 Duo E7200 - if not, stick with the Pentium Dual-Core E5200. Two more things. One - AMD has been getting a bad rap lately, but the truth is that for a low- to medium-budget gaming system they really are solid performers. Besides, if you can hold out for a more powerful CPU until the Phenom II comes out (should only be a couple months), the leaked benchmarks show them performing around the level of high-end Core 2 Duos/low-end Core i7s - and even if that's too expensive, they'll drive the price of everything else down immediately and they're still an upgrade option later. It's certainly your call in the end, but if you're looking for cheap now and upgradeable later I'd stick with an AMD system. ...and as for a hard drive. You make it sound as though it's grouped in with the same category as RAM, optical drive, etc. in that you have one already. If you do, don't bother buying a new one. If you don't... well, the parts list here needs some editing to jam one in, but it can certainly be done. - Diosjenin -
Thanks for your advice everyone, for the hard drive i already have one that is suitable, just to make that clear and i was thinking of getting some Crucial 2GB kit (2x1GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Ballistix Memory , would this be a good idea (you don't have to include this in the price list) I have decided to go with the silverstone sugo sg02 as it is better value for money i feel and it can accept a full size graphics card. The only problem is now i am not sure if i should go with an intel system, or wait and get a AMD phenomII. If i did go for an AMD system what would be good points to look for in a motherboard?? As for the power supply the seasonic looks good however i cannot find it in a UK stockist and i like the look of the enermax psu and for that reason i think i shall go with the enermax psu. Thanks again for your help and any more advice would be greatly appreciated
RAM: It's too bad you live in the UK, because really, the best place to look for RAM nowadays is Newegg. Just do an Advanced Search for 4GB (2x2GB) of DDR2-800, you can usually find some pair that's $25 (17 GBP) or less after rebate. Like these. Or these. As for you... I'd really suggest going with 4GB of RAM if you can swing it. If not, it's okay (you do have a 32-bit OS, after all), and you can always upgrade later, but newer games are starting to demand 4GB. I found a 2x2GB pair of Crucial Ballistix for about 40 GBP, but that's as cheap as I've found a 4GB combo. Up to you and your budget. CPU: Just from your budget I'm gathering that you probably won't have a terrible lot to spend even later down the road. The thing you'll want to keep in mind with Phenom II is that since it will (probably) be somewhat competitive with the Core i7 line, it will (likely) be priced along somewhat similar lines. So unless you're looking at having 170, maybe 200+ GBP to blow just on a CPU down the line, Phenom II should be considered a long-term upgrade option. That being said, a dual-core Black Edition or a lower-powered Phenom would fit quite well with the components you're currently working with (especially without a newer GPU), and it would save you quite a bit of dough on both the CPU and motherboard side of things. Never a bad thing. Which leads me into... AMD-Based Motherboard: Basically, so long as you find a motherboard that's from a reliable manufacturer, supports high power draw (125W+) and has a 780-series chipset, you're golden for the time being. Finding one that explicitly supports future Socket AM3 is a bit harder, but if you can find this one from Gigabyte anywhere in the UK, I'd shoot for that. Related CPU choices should be limited to the Athlon 64 X2 7750 Black Edition or... probably the Phenom 9650, which doesn't have the full 125W+ power draw of every faster Phenom. I'd recommend the 7750, because 1) it matches better with the remainder of your current components, 2) very few games are multithreaded enough to stress four cores, and those that don't are more frequency-dependent than anything else, and 3) it doesn't make much sense to spend twice as much as you need to on a CPU you might be upgrading a year from now. Oh, about that PSU. I bothered to look it up somewhere other than Newegg. Good news and bad news. Good news: It actually does have a 6+2-pin PCI-E connector, so Newegg got that info wrong. Bad news: Don't overload it. It doesn't like more than 500W being drawn. Really, you should have no problem with that in normal use, but don't expect to cram a 140W Phenom and a 4870 X2 in there without issues. - Diosjenin -
Thanks for your help Diosjenin, i think i will go with an AMD system after all, unfortunately i cannot find the gigabyte board you mentioned available in the uk, however by the time i have bought my case and sorted some fans out it will hopefully be more available. As for the cpu i feel that the AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Black Edition, will suit my needs better. My only problem now is the powersupply, as I would eventually like to upgrade my system, I looked on some uk sites and found this silverstone power supply and i was wondering if this would fit the bill? Thanks again Dave
Is a Corsair HX520W completely outside the scope of your budget? Should have more than enough juice for everything you need. And the fact that's one of the best PSUs ever should only make the deal sweeter...
That is an ideal power supply and should be within my budget, im not to sure what to look for in power supplies, but I've heard through the forums that corsair is a very reliable brand when it comes to power supplies, it may stretch my budget a tiny bit but hopefully their will be some reductions in January. Will it be able to cope with future upgrades and the possibility of an AMD phenom II and a 8800gts? or something along those lines in a future upgrade. Thanks Dave
Have a look at this. Granted, it's almost two years old and it's the 620W but the 520W is the same PSU with a few slightly lower specced components. Remember, it's not always the wattage that's interesting. Rather, have a look at the ampere ratings for the given rails. The Corsair offerings often outperform products with a higher wattage. In short: I'll doubt the Corsair 520W will let you down.
Corsair PSUs are always an excellent choice. They're consistently rated very, very highly even with no real refresh to the lower-wattage versions in two plus years now. If you'd rather go with the Silverstone, it will also be an excellent choice. In fact, there's a 700W version of that same PSU as well, if you can find it and/or if you feel like you need the extra power (although you likely won't). There's also this little gem of an accessory for it that you can pick up separately if you feel like cable management beyond just modular is important for you... And really, so long as you're not loading this system up with everything it can fit (140W Phenom, 4870X2 or similar, four sticks of RAM, two Velociraptors, two optical drives, maybe a sound and a wireless card just for kicks), either the Corsair or the Silverstone will work just fine. - Diosjenin -
I just had a look while i was off over christmas, and i found this asus motherboard, i was just wondering what people thought of this motherboard and if anyone had any experiences of it and if it would be a match for the gigabyte motherboard? All advice welcome Dave
So here's the deal. After doing a little more reading I've found that as long as the motherboard in question supports Socket AM2+, it will support Socket AM3. Did a quick Newegg search of uATX boards with AM2+, PCI-E 2.0, 780-series chipset, and generally reputable manufacturers. Came up with this list. The aforementioned Gigabyte is on there, as is the ASUS you linked to. If you find one that particularly interests you, be sure and read the reviews. Some of them might not particularly overclock well, and the reviews will tell you that. Make sure it supports 125W-140W Phenoms (or Phenom 9850, it basically means the same thing). There wasn't an option to filter by that, so unless it says it does in big red letters at the top, I can't guarantee all the boards on that list actually do so. Again, though, reviews should tell you what you need to know. Let us know what you find. - Diosjenin -
Actually it's better to make sure the board is guaranteed to work with 140W+ processors, rather than having "Phenom support". Remember the 780-gate from earlier this year? Most companies claimed Phenom support on their 780 mATX boards, yet they crashed and burned (some quite literally) when using high power Phenoms (and Athlon X2s) due to all too weak power regulation. Hopefully this is a thing of the past, but it's better to be safe than toasty...
Very true, and thank you for pointing that out. I had assumed that most of those models had been pulled after that little misstep, but I suppose a few could still be floating around somewhere. Hopefully those same reviews that would reveal OCing potential would also show whether or not people could get higher-wattage Phenoms to actually run on them... - Diosjenin -
