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A/V Silly amp question

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by murraynt, 27 Jun 2010.

  1. murraynt

    murraynt Modder

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    mite be worth a bid
     
  2. Kram

    Kram What's a Dremel?

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    Dont get confused by headphone amplifiers and speaker amplifiers with a headphone output socket.

    That amplifier in the ebay shop above is a speaker amplifer with a headphone output socket on the front, if you are after a dedicated headphone amp then its not the best though probably still better at driving headphones than direct from a soundcard.
     
  3. murraynt

    murraynt Modder

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    Might be worth a punt
     
  4. Jux_Zeil

    Jux_Zeil What's a Dremel?

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    Just as a word of warning, a good quality headphone(also known I think as a phonostage) amp can be reasonably cheap but I'm not sure how it would effect the surround sound should you want it during gaming through your headphones.

    Your best bet would to talk to an audio/video professional or two, or someone who is very knowledgeable in Hi-Fi separates for advise.

    If you feeeling lucky you could ask Creative. :hehe::wallbash::sigh:
     
  5. Jipa

    Jipa Avoiding the "I guess.." since 2004

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    If you are about to buy an amp from ebay, make sure to also search for dedicated headphone amps. That was a good point from Jux_Zeil. I just searched for the speaker amps as I'll always also want speakers.
     
  6. Sexton

    Sexton Minimodder

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    An Amp makes no difference to quality. Amp is short for amplifier, meaning loudness. All an amplifier can do is make something louder, therefore increasing the maximum output power. They are mostly used in music and audio industries, but I can't see a reason for using one on a household PC unless using speakers of several hundred watts, such as studio monitors.

    Sound quality is purely determined by the soundcard being used, hence industries using amplifiers tend to use Creative Professional series cards, not cards such as X-Fi's which are found in normal desktop PCs. If you're looking to improve your QUALITY then you need to buy a higher range soundcard. If you're looking to improve your POWER OUTPUT then you need an amplifier.
     
  7. smc8788

    smc8788 Multimodder

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    What? :confused:

    Maybe I've read that wrong but it sounds like you don't really know what you're talking about. Amplifiers aren't just used in music and audio industries you know...every house has one in some form or another. What else do you think powers your speakers? Where a dedicated amp is required is when using passive speakers, which require amplification. Active speakers (such as computer speakers) will have an amplifier built into one of the speakers themselves. Without an amplifier, you wouldn't hear anything.

    Secondly, the quality of the amplifier has a very large bearing on sound quality. Why do you think audiophiles spend thousands of pounds on amplifiers instead of £100 like the one I have sat next to my PC?

    As for soundcards, all they do is convert the digital signal from the PC to an analogue signal is sent to the speakers. A dedicated external DAC (whether it's built into an amp or not) will always produce better sound quality than a soundcard.
     
    Last edited: 28 Jun 2010
  8. Bungletron

    Bungletron Minimodder

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    I was wondering, are you perhaps getting confused with USB headsets that often have a little box beween the cable and headset, as far as I am aware the little box contains a very crappy little sound card device and amp that bypasses anything installed on the pc?
     
  9. Jipa

    Jipa Avoiding the "I guess.." since 2004

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    Sexton: Three words: "WAT? Just...... WAT?" That made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

    Bungletron: Yes it's a sound card in the small box. But to what was this actually related? :)
     
  10. saspro

    saspro IT monkey

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    A phonostage allows you to plug a record player in to an amplifier that does not have a phono (record player) input.


    A headphone amplifier will allow you to actually drive a proper set of headphones getting the best from them. My Grado SR80 headphones sound average to awful if I plug them directly in to an ipod or PC/mac. If I use my headphone amp then they sound a lot fuller & much more worth the money they cost.
     
  11. Bungletron

    Bungletron Minimodder

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    Just thought it might be easy to mistake the little box attached to a USB headset as an amp if you weren't looking closely. In my view gamers are not always hardware enthusiasts, see something like that and think 'wow cool USB headset, i want that!' and would buy it unnecesarily when you could use on board, particularly on a laptop where the ports are freely accesable. just a thought.

    *EDIT* However if the device in question actually is an amp then my opinion as to whether it is worth itt wholly depends on the quality of headphones you are using and the media you are reproducing. 128kb MP3s are always recognisable even on the worst quality headphones I doubt any amp can make those sound good. Top quality media really comes to life on good headphones so at this stage you may want some hardware in between. I have some audiophile denon in ears and they sound ok with an ipod, however I tried a sony x series and the sound was much crisper, so perhaps if there was something in between it could make it sound even better not sure if it would be an amp tho. I know at low volumes signal to noise ratio really comes into play, one of my muso mates explained how they get around this to get a great sound on guitar amps at low volumes is to use an attenuator, but I would probably not bother with PC sound.
     
    Last edited: 28 Jun 2010
  12. smc8788

    smc8788 Multimodder

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    Out of interest, what headphone amp do you use?
     
  13. murraynt

    murraynt Modder

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    ok so the reading of this, make me think that it basically increases volume, but i cnt understand why my headphones sound so poor on my pc could my card not be giving out enough power?
    another question are these speaker adequate for my sound card?
    http://www.testfreaks.com/pc-speakers/creative-inspire-t6200/
     
  14. Sexton

    Sexton Minimodder

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    Firstly, I would like to say I have a particularly advanced knowledge of audio hardware as I have worked in the music industry for almost a decade and am now the manager of a radio station and a record producer.

    Everyone here is relating amplifiers to quality, and I can't see why. The concept of an amplifier is very simple in the name - it AMPLIFIES things. It takes a signal, makes it bigger, and gives it back out. An amplifier simply cannot make better a signal it recieves, only the original hardware (i.e. a soundcard) can do that. An amplifier is simply an array of transistors.

    Yes, you can get good and bad quality amplifiers. A bad quality, cheap amplifier will screw the quality up. A good one will make the original sound louder and will retain the quality, but simply cannot make it better.

    smc8788, I am aware INTERNAL amplifiers are used in lots of places, but we are talking about EXTERNAL ones here ;) They can be found in the home, such as in a HiFi system where an external amplifier is needed, but one for a PC is slightly different.
     
  15. smc8788

    smc8788 Multimodder

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    Better relative to what? There isn't a defined standard for sound quality. All amplifiers sound different. They don't don't all exactly reproduce the source material exactly and colour the sound slightly due to differences in their construction. Yes, the cheapest amplifiers will sound bad and the expensive ones will sound better. But there is also a whole range in between, it's not simply a matter of 'loudness'. Hence, the quality of construction (and therefore price) does have an effect on the sound quality.

    I honestly can't understand why you're having such a problem with this. Go on any tech/music/audiophile forum on the Internet and you'll see page upon page of discussion about which amplifier is better than another. You'll also see that they don't do it based on looks, they do it based on sound quality.

    I think you're oversimplifying things WAY too much.

    Please, I'd love to hear how the optical output from my PC would be different to the optical output from the CD player in my Hi-Fi system, using the same amplifier and the same speakers.
     
    Last edited: 28 Jun 2010
  16. Bungletron

    Bungletron Minimodder

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    Yeah, on a PC system I would totally use an amp to boost volume: on speakers, not on headphones. What headphones are you using? Honestly, a good set makes a great deal of difference and should be able to reproduce crisp sounds (from good media, try a cd) accross the range at low and high volume, try and borrow a nice pair and see if it makes a difference. If not then the issue may be the sound card, if this is the case the powered speakers you are thinking of buying might also sound hopeless so you would have to budget for a sound card upgrade as well.
     
  17. Kram

    Kram What's a Dremel?

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    Its not about boosting volume, its about being able to drive your headphones or speaker drivers properly. An amp is an easier load to drive for a soundcard than phones or speakers.

    On my pc with the headphones plugged into the sound card I can turn the volume up and probably deafen my self, with an amp inbetween it sounds much better though I could turn the volume up to a point where my headphones would fall appart, but i wouldnt do that.
     
  18. murraynt

    murraynt Modder

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  19. Sexton

    Sexton Minimodder

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    My god, as I said and you even quoted, there are good and bad amplifiers. But no matter how you cut it, an amplifier cannot improve the original sound quality. Let me put it into perspective thats understandable. Say on a scale of 1 to 10, the quality of sound currently coming out of your soundcard is 9. By your logic, a good amplifier suddenly improves this to 10? No. Good god no. An amplifier is simply not capable of this. A bad amplifier would reduce it, make things clip and distort. A good amplifier would maintain it. Thats the only difference.

    So yes, you are right and as I said earlier, you need to get a good amplifier. But thats not saying you need one at all. The argument earlier was all about sound quality, and how people are thinking buying an amplifier magically improves it. Frankly, complete bulls**t. An amplifier can amplify the signal, make it louder, which you will need for higher powered speakers. If sound quality is an issue, then you need to improve the source hardware, not the auxillary stuff.
     
  20. smc8788

    smc8788 Multimodder

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    That's exactly the point I was trying to make, I think you just misinterpreted my post. Or I misinterpreted yours. I never meant to say that an amplifier will improve the sound quality of the source, I know it won't, but the overall statement "amplifiers have no impact on sound quality" was a little vague and misleading.
     

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