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Social and Economic Differences across the UK.

Discussion in 'Serious' started by stuartpb, 15 Feb 2019.

  1. stuartpb

    stuartpb Well-Known Member

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    So some of what has been posted in another thread got me thinking about how the UK is so divided at the moment. Brexit is one cause, we all know that and there is a whole thread to discuss that.

    My questions are, what could be done to bridge the divides we have that aren't a result of Brexit. What would it take to start creating a fairer society within the UK? Where class, wealth or postcode don't hamper or even benefit? Where there are no social and economic divides? Is there a fix or is the UK seriously that fecked up? What are other countries doing to address the social and economic divisions they may have? Or is this never going to happen and we just have to accept it? Interested to hear how others see the state of the UK, my own views get polarised sometimes due to local issues that are more pressing to me a lot of the time.
     
  2. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    Nothing. In a capitalistic society, there will always be an economic divide.

    It will always be the case with capitalism driving the economic car, so to speak. I'm not convinced there is a fix. It's the same, or worse, all over the world. IMO, with the way the world is going, ~200 individual countries can't hack it. It's going to become conglomerates of countries. North/South America, Europe, Russia, Asia, North/South Africa are what I'd expect to see if I were immortal. It'll be the only way for the general populace to get the fairest deal for their economic standing (worth).

    But, I am a pessimist. I tend to see the worst option as the most believable because I have very little faith in humanity. Everyone is out for themselves - I certainly am. With Brexit as an example, at the first hint of an opportunity I upped sticks and left. Literally. Within eight days of paying off my debts, I was in Germany.

    I admire those that strive to help others - NHS workers, emergency service workers, etcetera - But I feel like they are in a statistically insignificant minority worldwide. I try not to, at least, begrudge others their belief structures, but I can't help but judge people for how they appear to think/believe. I don't believe the majority of others are that different.

    But then, for government, I believe a technocracy is the best solution. So. Maybe we're all better as brains in jars.
     
  3. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    You 'fix' it in the same way you 'fix' social and economic divide within smaller communities, take one of the smallest we know for instance, what do you do if your partner or any member of your family that you cohabit with has less than you?

    FWIW I put 'fix' in quotations as there's certainly a great deal of debate to be had around whether the typical solution to a social and economic divide actually makes things better or worse, is it better to pool the resources of the community and share it out equally, such as a couple having a single bank account, or is it better to have separate bank accounts so the better off don't feel put upon and the less well off are motivated.
     
  4. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Eat the rich.

    No, seriously. The absolute best way to deal with the divide is lessen it. Big-ass tax on those earning a million or more. No more free rides for corporations like Amazon: I don't care where your purported headquarters are, you take money out of our economy then you damn well pay tax in our economy. Get all the benefit fraud staff working on corporation tax avoidance instead - much bigger return there.

    The rich don't like it? They're threatening to go to Monaco or Lichtenstein? Fine. Bye, Felicia. Oh, by the way, we just revoked your citizenship and seized all your UK properties. Your pad in SoHo? Yeah, we're converting it into flats for use as social housing.

    All that extra cash? Improve the benefit programmes. Open more libraries. Cultural events. Better funding for schools and hospitals. Hell, improve front-line policing. Doesn't matter if the drunk and disorderly are from Romania or Rotherham, they can cool their heels in the nick for a night or two and we don't even have to leave the EU to make that happen.

    Combine that with an end to the governmental gravy train - no second home allowance, no expenses, income tied to living wage, Transport Minister should only use public transport, Health Minister should only use the NHS, Education Minister's kids should be state-educated, Jacob Rees-Mogg to go back to haunting a Victorian Boys' School or whatever the hell he used to do before becoming the Spokesperson for Shite - and see things improve *immensely*.

    Eat. The. Rich.
     
  5. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    In the list of things that won't ever happen, I think this might be either at, or very close to, the top.

    Too much backbone required in politicians to achieve it.
     
  6. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    's a nice dream, though, eh?
     
  7. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    There are some things that could be done:

    Better distribute public sector jobs around the country and encourage work from home schemes to reduce the pressure on young people to migrate to London in search of half decent wages.

    A total ban on state aid for companies (lets face it, that money just gets skimmed off by entrenched multi billion companies while they crush small local business).

    Close loopholes for rich individuals and large companies in tax system, in return lower the two taxes poor people pay, VAT and income tax.

    Fix our bloody infrastructure... (seriously, roads aren't supposed to look like the Nile every time it rains, also there is the shambles they dare to call flood defences, internet that runs on cable so old that JRM strangled dinosaurs with it (just put in bloody fiber already)).

    Make education actually free.

    And that is nowhere near an exhaustive list.
     
  8. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    True that.
     
  9. adidan

    adidan Avatar now in stock for xmas 2019

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    It says something when the poorest in society are not the ones who receive the most benefits.

    Benefits that top up peoples wages indicates to me that it is an indirect subsidy given to employers not paying enough.

    But yeah, redistributing public jobs, and giving companies an incentive to employ in more deprived areas where housing is affordable and jobs are needed - good idea.

    Infrastructure - yup, but not like HS2, but in areas it's badly needed. Take the new Japanese electric trains that will run up North. As soon as they hit York (iirc) they then have to switch to diesel as the points system further on the line are too outdated to cope. Another thing that's had Grayling's useless hands on - 10 years they've had to plan for this...

    But yeah, this is surface scratching.

    Spend money but wisely please thankyouverymuch.
     
  10. Archtronics

    Archtronics Well-Known Member

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    Education and technology, the latter is what has fundamentally improved things for the common man more than anything else in the last 100 years.

    Broadly I would reduce the barriers for new business especially “disrupters” and support them.
    Enforce strict rules on conglomerates and enforceable split them up if they become to large.

    I would have a benefit system that gives you really good benefits, education/training for 3-4 years.
    After that you get nothing until you have made a set amount of contributions into the system again.
    Coupled with that a really good child care scheme and a service for disabled people.

    Healthcare to be completely separated from central govt and given a dedicated tax.

    Then no doubt controversial here but I would privatise a lot of council services completely, eg. Waste people pay the company for there bins directly.
    Reason anyone who deals with council procurement knows how corrupt and inefficient the system is.
     
  11. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    Or the less controversial alternative:
    Total transparency of Council spending.
     
  12. Archtronics

    Archtronics Well-Known Member

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    No I think that would actually make it worse.

    The big issue with council procurement is they don’t understand what they are buying and they always go for the cheapest price.

    Personally I would like to completely get rid of councils and have a network of community/parish councils reporting everything back to central databases, I think we have the tech available to do it now.
    Get rid of council tax and up income tax so it’s shared equally and have a smaller contribution to your local community council.
    I think this would foster better community spirit and help with integration.
     
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  13. stuartpb

    stuartpb Well-Known Member

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    Our council is a joke, they are so focused on developing the town centre, trying to compete with the likes of Sheffield and Leeds. That's great but it's at the cost of the outlying areas. We see roads that have more holes than tarmac, parks and other public amenities falling into disrepair and a whole load of infrastructure problems. Quality housing is always a problem too.

    Getting new businesses investing into the town is important but so is decent housing, infrastructure and everything else that's needed for an increased population that their plans could create. It's just as vital for the existing population too. Some routes into our town are pretty grim, with run down areas and infrastructure.
     
  14. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    VOTE GARETH. You know it makes sense.
     
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  15. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    I'm just disappointed that when I was searching around my brain for a UK place name that shared a few letters with "Romania" the best I managed was "Rotherham," when "Romford" would have been way better. Bah.
     
  16. Mr_Mistoffelees

    Mr_Mistoffelees The Lunatic on the Grass.

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    Government need to examine and change the law. Remove the loopholes, then they can't be exploited.

    Under the Tories it will never happen...
     
  17. MLyons

    MLyons Half dev, Half doge. Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    partially because our own government uses a few of them to help balance the books
     
  18. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    Who do you think put the loopholes there in the first place.
     
  19. edzieba

    edzieba Virtual Realist

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    "Fix the tax loopholes" is a task on a scale akin to "remove all references and dependencies on the monarchy from law", the sort of thing that needs to be dealt with by first funding the training for the cadre of crosstrained lawyers and accountants needed to tackle the problem properly (or you just replace your loopholes with new loopholes, or end up with Trump-grade "trade deficits means that stopping trade means more money for us!" nonsense). We can't even fund basic public services to a minimum viable level, I can't see that sort of low-visibility project getting more than a token guy-in-a-basement-closet-with-a-typewriter level of funding.
     

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