1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Apple Some Mac Comparisons to Windows equivalents

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Mac_Trekkie, 18 Mar 2012.

  1. Mac_Trekkie

    Mac_Trekkie Source Engine's #1 fan!

    Joined:
    10 Sep 2011
    Posts:
    636
    Likes Received:
    8
    DISCLAIMER!!! This is not intended as a buying guide or to convince you to change what you buy! It's simply a look at how well the Mac stacks up to its competition for prebuilts! Yes building it yourself will save you money and probably get a better machine! That is neither here nor there. I might do comparisons on that later.

    In my free time, I like to occasionally pretend build different computers or select different computers that compare to the various Macintosh models. I'll post a couple here since I'm bored. This isn't concrete proof or anything, but I'm trying to get a better comparison, both prebuilt and selfbuilt to the Macs.

    _____________________________________


    First up is my personal favorite for comparisons: The iMac 27". First off I'll go with the higher spec model with the following specs:

    3.4ghz Quad-Core Sandy Bridge i7 2600
    4gb DDR3 1333 RAM (2x2gb)
    Radeon 6970m 1gb
    1tb 7200rpm HDD
    Apple Mouse
    Apple Extended USB Keyboard with 10key

    Price non-shipped, not counting tax from Apple: USD $2,199

    Adding on to that, we give it a couple upgrades, namely RAM

    Mushkin Enhanced 4gb DDR3 1333: $22.99
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226166

    Total Price: $2221.99

    Alternately, for evenness

    Kingston 2gb DDR3 1333 x2: $33.98
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139893

    Total Price: $2232.98
    _________________________________________

    Up for contention is the Dell XPS 8300 (seemed to be the most comparable I could find on Dell's awful site. No All-in-Ones have 27" monitors there, so immediately you loose the form factor of the iMac.

    Specs included:

    i7 2600
    Radeon HD 6870 (a bit better than the iMac's 6970m, about the difference between a 6870 and the 6850)
    8gb DDR3 1333 RAM (4x2gb)
    1tb 7200 rpm HDD
    Laser Mouse
    Media Keyboard

    Total Price from Dell: $1,049.99

    Next we need to add a few bits.

    Apple LED Cinema Display/Dell U2711 Monitor: $999

    Logitech LS11 3 watt 2-piece speaker set: $20.99

    Total Price: 2069.98.

    Saved a bundle, didn't we? Could put that extra $200 to all manner of upgrades. However, you now have a huge noisy tower sitting next to you, speaker pods sitting next to you. It's up to you if you think the $200 is worth it. However, if you choose the LED Cinema Display over the U2711, you do get a much better speaker system that is inside the display. Also of note is the Dell has a noticeably more powerful GPU. If there was a 6850 option I would have taken it.

    Of note: If you don't buy from Dell, add $325 or so to your price. Suddenly your savings have disappeared, and you're playing $100 more for a $50 better graphics card and a hugely larger volume of space consumed.

    __________________________________

    Next up, I'm going to try Lenovo, my preferred non-Apple computer manufacturer. They don't have any AIO's of 27" either, unfortunately, so I chose a big loud noisy Ideacenter K330. At best I could get GTX 460 and i7 2600 in it, for more than the Dell, so obviously it wasn't going to beat the iMac or Dell at all. Moving on.

    __________________________________

    I recalled hearing something about an Asus 27" AIO so I checked it out. Unfortunately it only had a 1080p display. Seriously, 1080p on a 27" monitor would SUCK if you've ever seen 1440p. We'll try one of their desktops, since Asus makes good machines. Checked out the essential section, and they all seemed to come with at most an HD 5450. Not going to cut it. Checked out the Essentio CG 1330, Phenom II x6, 5450, pass. Both of these were around the Dell's discounted price. Asus is out of the running.

    __________________________________

    Asus always makes me think of Acer so I looked over there. There's the Predator G3 and the Predator G7 that caught my eye. The G7 because it looks like something Optimus Prime might crap out after some bad sushi, and the G3 because it might fit. G3 comes with at most a GT 530. Fine, let's try the G7. Incredibly hideous, and the website was broken so it didn't list any models. It was probably overkill and too expensive anyways.

    _________________________________

    Lastly I'll look at HP. Their 27" AIO is far too underpowered and again with the 1080p 27" screen. To the desktops I go! Picked the H8xt and went to customization. Ended up with the following:

    i7 2600
    HD 6850 1gb
    8gb DDR3 1333 RAM
    2tb 7200rpm HDD (stock option)
    600w PSU (OEM, chose the highest one to be safe, and it's slightly closer to the efficiency of the iMac than a pile of bricks.)
    Wireless N + Bluetooth card(something the Dell is lacking that would add to the cost of it)
    HP Wireless keyboard
    HP Wireless Mouse (closer to the iMac)
    HP 2.1 speakers

    Total Price pre HP Discount: $1,438.98

    After HP Discount: $1,282.98

    Adding on a 27" monitor(U2711 or Cinema Display), $999

    Total price: $2282.98

    As we can see, the HP is not as good a value as the Dell, but it does come with more things available with it (speakers, wifi+bluetooth card) so it reduces the amount of shopping you have to do. Overall, I'd pass on it for the Dell.

    _________________________________

    In the end it comes down to you if you want the Dell or the iMac. The Dell is far more likely to be on sale, in that it has a chance to be on sale at all. If you get the Dell for full price, it is a somewhat worse value. If you get it for sale, depending on how much you value the tidiness of an All-In-One. I'd spend the extra $200 personally if I could get my current desktop in an AIO.

    ONE MAJOR POINT THAT I KNOW YOU WILL BRING UP IF I DON'T IS THAT THE iMAC CANNOT HAVE ITS GPU UPGRADED!
    I know this. This comparison isn't for power users. I know we would build our desktops first and foremost. If you're considering a prebuilt, you probably don't have the time/knowledge/skill/space/resources/whatever to build a desktop yourself. Especially if you're considering AIO's, in which case the 27" iMac is simply unmached due to there being apparently no 2560x1440 27" AIO's. If I missed one, or a manufacturer of desktops, or something else I can compare to the iMac, feel free to point it out.

    If you like it I'll do more.

    If you hate it, I'll definitely do more! :thumb:
     
    Last edited: 18 Mar 2012
  2. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    6,943
    Likes Received:
    268
    First, the

    Well, first of all, the "Apple LED Cinema Display/Dell U2711 Monitor: $999" thing. US pricing is bad for these monitors, here are the prices in Slovakia, which are usually higher than prices in West Europe :
    HP ZR2740w = 620 euros = $816, or $652 without 20% VAT (= without sales tax)
    Dell U2711 = 720 euros = $948, or $758 without 20% VAT
    Apple Cinema 27 = 939 euros = $1236 or $988 without 20% VAT

    Second, who is crazy enough to buy a HP/Dell computer for anything else but company computers or servers ? This kind of logic is not really for this forum :). And even if you are not good enough to do it for yourself, pretty much every company offers a service to build and test your computer for a 30-50€ fee. So you only select the components, pay for it, they build it, test it, deliver it. You don't even need to know how do you put the RAM in the slot.
     
  3. Deders

    Deders Modder

    Joined:
    14 Nov 2010
    Posts:
    4,053
    Likes Received:
    106
    My friend always likes to say that although Acer do provide decent components in their laptops, they are put together by untrained monkeys. So probably not a fair comparison to apple equipment, or Asus for that matter.

    Edit:
    Pretty much ^this^, you could save yourself much more money and learn a lot about how things work if you bought, fitted and configured the components yourself.
     
  4. asura

    asura jack of all trades

    Joined:
    22 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    1,747
    Likes Received:
    78
  5. jamsand

    jamsand Minimodder

    Joined:
    21 May 2011
    Posts:
    1,233
    Likes Received:
    57
    Really cause a quick trip to my closest apple store told me otherwise lol!

    however I do need to agree this is a enthusiast forum most here know how to put together a pc themselves, also general view of build a dell made pc is stupid even if you want it pre-built as you have the likes of scan and aria for that who will do it cheaper.

    Apple have their place though the products look sleek and professional, good for a high end workplace machine as it is a recognised sign of quality.
     
  6. rollo

    rollo Modder

    Joined:
    16 May 2008
    Posts:
    7,886
    Likes Received:
    129
    depends who is buying

    would i pay 200 dollars more for the style of the apple I personally would and Id guess alot of others would as well.

    if you put the 2 computers in front of your general consumer and told them its 200 dollars for the mac more they would buy the mac without even thinking about it, And id personally not buy from dell for home usage even if i couldnt build it myself, Plenty of other companys who will build what you want for a modest fee ( scan for example overclockers.co.uk ) here in the uk at least.
     
  7. Lorquis

    Lorquis lorquisSpamCount++;

    Joined:
    8 Sep 2002
    Posts:
    5,428
    Likes Received:
    106
    [Disclaimer] I am a self confessed Apple fan boy and always shall be. I kneel at the alter of Sir Ive and all his beautiful works. [/Disclaimer]

    I do completely get your point that the iMac actually is quite decent value for money (more so in US than UK but anyway) however, you're still comparing an AIO to a tower based rig. If you want to do a FAIR comparison spec builds using a Mac Pro.

    And I recently built a Hackmac for about £270 (case and psu on top would be an extra £50 due to getting it on the MP) in total, i5 2500k, Gigabyte Z68MA-D2H-B3 and 8GB of ram. Admittedly I already have the monitors I want to use but still, that's a LOT cheaper than anything I can get from Apple and pretty comparable really, especially when I get round to OCing it..


    If I had the cash I probably would have just gone out and got a 27" iMac but it's just not that way right now!
     
  8. goldstar0011

    goldstar0011 Multimodder

    Joined:
    2 Sep 2007
    Posts:
    3,409
    Likes Received:
    303
    Interesting but I say get a new hobby hehehe
     
  9. Matticus

    Matticus ...

    Joined:
    23 Feb 2008
    Posts:
    3,347
    Likes Received:
    117
    Interesting idea. Strange use of time :hehe:

    It is all about what a person wants, I don't think you are ever going to sway a power user who likes to upgrade and customise to switch to an iMac, and I don't think you are going to sway someone who is set on a mac for the style or simplicity to change to a (relatively) big separate box.

    One point of interest I always throw into the Mac vs PC discussion is resale value. Three years down the line the resale value of the iMac is going to be much higher than that of the Dell for example, probably more than the $200 saved. But then if you manage to sell the Dell box separate from the monitor, you have a perfectly good monitor for your next machine. Again closing the gap back.

    Then as you rightly point out the lack of upgrades to an iMac mean its "extendable" lifespan is limited because you can't upgrade the GPU to get another 18 months out of it. But arguably os x runs better on limited hardware than Windows depending on usage and setup.

    My take on the whole thing... its all swings and roundabouts and personal tastes. But interesting nonetheless.
     
  10. Mac_Trekkie

    Mac_Trekkie Source Engine's #1 fan!

    Joined:
    10 Sep 2011
    Posts:
    636
    Likes Received:
    8
    For the purpose of my sanity, I stuck to doing it in the USA since that's where I live. It's possible to do it in other areas, easily, but that's way too long a time

    Because people aren't as smart as us. Yeah, it's easily possible to get the store to build it for you, but this is a comparison for prebuilts, not selfbuilts. Self built, the value of any prebuilt tends to plummet.

    I was basically going through most of the prebuilt manufacturers I knew. I didn't even know Acer made desktops, but I decided to try it. As far as building it yourself, I know that. Again, this is a comparison between prebuilt computers.

    This isn't a buying guide, this is just a little comparison to show that the Mac isn't really a billion dollars more than every other prebuilt on the market

    I agree, I was simple going through major manufacturers.

    The Mac Pro is next on my list, in both single and dual-CPU versions. Stay tuned!

    Yes, it's definitely cheaper to build a hackintosh, but you loose out on the Apple style, support, compatibility, and cool points:)lol:)

    I have way too many hobbies already :eeek:

    This whole thing isn't designed to sway anyone from doing anything other than they already do. I'm just pointing out that the Mac isn't insanely more expensive, and definitely isn't the horrible value that people make it out to be.
     
  11. asura

    asura jack of all trades

    Joined:
    22 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    1,747
    Likes Received:
    78
    Well let's max out a MacPro (did this years ago and got to over £11K)

    Two 2.93GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon “Westmere” £2370
    64GB ECC memory (8x8) a lot of variation, but let's call it£1000
    4 port raid card again a lot of variation £300
    4x 2TB drives £380
    Supermicro motherboard £300
    Case £250
    DVD writer £20
    Anomalous bits and bobs £380

    No GPU - if I were to be buying something like this it'd have a Quadro not 5XXX Radeons.
    No monitors - again, if I had this sort of budget to burn I'd be getting a LaCie.

    Parts total £5000
    Apple total £9329.03
     
  12. Mac_Trekkie

    Mac_Trekkie Source Engine's #1 fan!

    Joined:
    10 Sep 2011
    Posts:
    636
    Likes Received:
    8
    :wallbash: Every time someone thinks they're smart and maxes out an Apple. Buying hard drives and RAM and clock speed bumps and DVD drives and RAID cards from Apple is an IDIOTIC idea!

    I already have a list of parts for comparing to the Mac Pro, the writeup will be tomorrow.
     
  13. Mac_Trekkie

    Mac_Trekkie Source Engine's #1 fan!

    Joined:
    10 Sep 2011
    Posts:
    636
    Likes Received:
    8
    Didn't notice this. Unfortunately, it comes with Quadro graphics, so it might not be suitable for average consumer use. I'll still add it to the writeup once it becomes officially available.

    EDIT

    There was a post under mine ten seconds ago, I swear!
     
  14. Lorquis

    Lorquis lorquisSpamCount++;

    Joined:
    8 Sep 2002
    Posts:
    5,428
    Likes Received:
    106
    You do to an extent lose out on the style but that can be addressed, even at a basic level of just a cinema display and keyboard and trackpad! Support... fair point but you still get support for the other items, compatability is not even an issue any more (have a look at tonymacx86 they've got an idiot proof install method and DSDTs for most mobos (which was how I chose my mobo))... and cool points??? Surely you gain more!

    And for style, just look at some of the Mac->x86 mods happening in project logs, some are quite good.

    And as an addition, I can upgrade my hack a lot easier, the list of compatable gfx cards is getting quite silly huge!
     
  15. Deders

    Deders Modder

    Joined:
    14 Nov 2010
    Posts:
    4,053
    Likes Received:
    106
    And this is why:
    [​IMG]
     
  16. GregTheRotter

    GregTheRotter Minimodder

    Joined:
    9 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    4,272
    Likes Received:
    88
    To reply to that;

    Luckily for sais MAC buyer, there will always be some other MAC user out there ready to buy said second hand outdated hardware at much higher prices than pc's, because..it's a mac.
     
  17. VipersGratitude

    VipersGratitude Multimodder

    Joined:
    4 Mar 2008
    Posts:
    3,493
    Likes Received:
    804
    See this is the part I don't get...You say you're comparing prebuilt machines, except the Apple example isn't prebuilt - You're upgrading it with third party components - presumably to avoid the fact that 4Gb of extra RAM in an Apple prebuilt inflates the price by $200, not $23.

    If you're comparing truly prebuilt systems there's the Alienware x51, which has a tiny form factor and comes in $450 cheaper than an iMac.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

    Joined:
    30 Jan 2004
    Posts:
    10,937
    Likes Received:
    536
    What's the point of this thread? No one on here buys pre-built systems. Even if they did, there are loads of all in one PCs.. just so happens there's not many 27". The reason for that is that most people in the market for a all in one PC probably don't want to spend 2K on such a large screened PC. All in one's are usually for consumer use, and anyone considering serious work would look elsewhere.

    Just as an aside... the college I work at is replacing it's iMacs from all the photographic darkrooms due to overwhelming hatred of the crap screens and poor performance - by students who have to use them, and staff who have to calibrate them.

    Can I address another point? "Apple style"? If by style, you mean it looks exactly the same as everyone else's, then fine. If that's your bag, go for it. If you mean crap keyboards that feel like a cheap laptop.. fine.. go for it... mice that make your hand ache after 30 minutes.. fine.. go for it.

    Then why the screamingly obvious bias with statements like this...

    Just another Mac zealot... move along folks.. nothing to see here. Someone's already post a link to the Z1, which by fact of being upgradeable, and comes with proper keyboard and mouse makes it a far more sensible choice... if buying a 27" all in one can be considered sensible at all.

    I do however wish to see how you justify the Mac Pro.. that should be worth a laugh.
     
  19. j4mi3

    j4mi3 What's a Dremel?

    Joined:
    28 Jun 2011
    Posts:
    1,033
    Likes Received:
    17
    The 27 inch imac is the only reasonably good value computer apple makes, as its display is great. If I wanted an all in one id get an imac. But fact is I dont and I doubt I ever will.

    I have debated my ass off on numerous forums on the internet of which I am a part, on the windows team. Many threads reaching 15+ pages. It actually stirs more **** than it solves, because like religion, you wont convince anyone against their beliefs.

    the mac pro is extremely bad value for money and I will post the comparison I made on a diff forum in a sec


    quite.
     
  20. j4mi3

    j4mi3 What's a Dremel?

    Joined:
    28 Jun 2011
    Posts:
    1,033
    Likes Received:
    17
    so here is a comparison i made. i tried to use as similar stuff as possible.


    you will note, hardware such as the motherboard, ssd, hdd, and case, all considerably outperform the ones apple have used. their case, while being clean and minimalistic, provides awful ventilation.

    My motherboard is quite possibly the best motherboard in existence today, for the consumer market. It has pretty much every feature under the sun. It wouldnt suprise me if apple used 1066mhz ram, not 1333mhz which i did. Because they didnt list it.

    this is the mac system we will be working from, you can see the specs in the right.

    [​IMG]

    lets go then shall we.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    this crucial ssd: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004W2BA...de=asn&creative=22218&creativeASIN=B004W2BAXI


    finall price..


    my build: 1581.36+343.18+77.99+64.30+605.88+912.96+509.65 =

    4.1k, vs 9k nuff said
    i forgot the psu, so thats another £150 give or take
     
    Last edited: 19 Mar 2012

Share This Page