1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Hardware Some questions about our new CPU cooler test systems

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Combatus, 30 Apr 2015.

?

Select your preference below

  1. De-lid the LGA1150 CPU

    5 vote(s)
    9.8%
  2. Don't de-lid the CPU

    42 vote(s)
    82.4%
  3. Show all the results in one graph

    21 vote(s)
    41.2%
  4. Show graphs for either air or liquid coolers

    2 vote(s)
    3.9%
  5. Split the graphs but include results of the cooler on test in both

    16 vote(s)
    31.4%
  6. Something else (please comment)

    9 vote(s)
    17.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. jinq-sea

    jinq-sea 'write that down in your copy book' Super Moderator

    Joined:
    15 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    8,207
    Likes Received:
    401
    I'd like to see delidded results, but I think for the general populus, lid-on is where it's at. In terms of the graphs, grouping by cooler type works for me, but I'd echo the requests for links to other graphs for those 'keen' readers :)

    PS Delidding CPUs is what the cool kids do. And me. But I'm the exception that proves the rule? :worried:
     
  2. Predalien

    Predalien Member

    Joined:
    21 Apr 2004
    Posts:
    79
    Likes Received:
    2
    Hello.

    It's great that you let us participate this way.

    My main concern is with the graph, because when I'm reading reviews and reach it I find myself looking (inside that huge graph) for the few models I know and I have under control to compare them alone. This does not make the graph very user friendly to me, but I still want the rest of the data to discover new heatsinks.

    Ideas about it:
    • Smaller graph
    • Interactive graph so I can select and compare the heatsinks I care about
    • With the heatsinks I selected fixed on the graph, I still can hover the mouse over the rest of the heatsink list and the value will appear.
    • What if I identify a heatsink I don't know about and it performs great? link to the review, from the graph heatsink list.

    Hope it helps.
     
  3. sakzzz

    sakzzz Member

    Joined:
    13 May 2009
    Posts:
    240
    Likes Received:
    9
    If the temperature sensor is on the chip, then the motive of testing the efficiency of a cooler is lost if you do not delid. Personally, I wouldnt delid a chip, but purely in terms of a test, the measurement point is separated from the object of interest by a "dodgy" interface which leads to inconsistency.
     
  4. edzieba

    edzieba Virtual Realist

    Joined:
    14 Jan 2009
    Posts:
    3,232
    Likes Received:
    300
    While interactive content within an article is generally a massive pain (not one website I've seen implement it has been enjoyable to use), a separate interactive chart would be very nice to have. If a unified test rig is being set up, then it should be possible to compile all results from that rig into a central database and produce on-demand charts from that (e.g. graph of all coolers compatible with socket X, graph of degrees above ambient vs. current sale price, etc).
     
  5. ModSquid

    ModSquid Member

    Joined:
    16 Apr 2011
    Posts:
    478
    Likes Received:
    13
    Yeah, okay - I'm an idiot.

    That 1 response for "Show graphs for either air or liquid coolers" is me, because I misread it. I forgot to untick it before submitting - apologies and feel free to remove/ignore/ridicule.

    Didn't have time to post but have now ended up posting because....well, I've already highlighted that.
     
  6. TheMadDutchDude

    TheMadDutchDude The Flying Dutchman

    Joined:
    23 Aug 2013
    Posts:
    4,744
    Likes Received:
    521
    Disagree. Why would you buy a >£50 cooler, and then swap out the fans? You test the product as is. You may as well compare it to some other form of cooling if you're going to change the actual components it comes with.
     
  7. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

    Joined:
    3 May 2012
    Posts:
    5,163
    Likes Received:
    141
    Reviewing cooler performance should be about comparing the review sample to other, previous review samples. In this way we can determine how well it performs amongst its peers. So it should not be relevant whether the test cpu is delidded or not purely from a performance comparison perspective.

    The benefit of keeping the original package intact is so that most readers have an idea of the expected level of performance for the cooler in question. Naturally the readers experience will vary due to manufacturing tolerances, how the user mounts the cooler, thermal paste, ambient conditions etc. but at least they will have a reasonable ball park of how the cooler performs from the review. Reviewing with a delidded sample skews that ball park figure in the wrong direction for the reader. So the reader sees the review and the product performs at temperature x under load. They get the product but for them it performs at temperature x+10 under load because they haven't delidded their CPU. Essentially their experience would not reflect your review unless they de-lid their CPU.If most users delidded their CPUs then the tests should of course reflect this, but most users don't from what I can see.

    The graphs should be kept together in my opinion. All in one coolers perform more similarly to high end air coolers than they do custom loops. Buying, installing and maintaining an all in one cooler is also a more similar experience to an air cooler than it is a customer loop. So people looking to buy a new CPU cooler should be able to compare the two kinds easily. Unless they were set on one kind or the other before doing their research (how unscientific!) In which case keeping them on the same graph but with a different colour as was suggested seems like a reasonable thing to do.

    If the graphs are getting massive, I would suggest pick the top 10 or 15 most popular or best performing for the site and host a seperate public doc with all the results like an public google document or something, for those that are interested. I don't think that extra overhead would be too much. If you are reviewing something like a low profile cooler, then pick suitable comparisons, rather than the best 10 or 15. This would be in a similar vein to forgoing 1080p benches on top tier graphics cards review or forgoing 4k tests when reviewing iGPU
     
  8. fluxtatic

    fluxtatic New Member

    Joined:
    25 Aug 2010
    Posts:
    507
    Likes Received:
    5
    Frickin stoked that you're bringing back AMD. I lost a lot of interest in cooler reviews (and a lot of respect for the site itself, frankly) when you dropped AMD. And it certainly doesn't hurt that I also run a FX-6300 ;)

    On the Intel side, though: don't delid. It's no good all around - too many variables get introduced. And it's hardly representative of the experience for the vast majority of users.

    As to the graphs, I'd like to see performance for price, like the cost divided by delta temperature over the stock cooler. As far as the graph getting too large, maybe within the reviews keep them close in price. If I'm looking to spend, say, $30 on a cooler, seeing how well a $100 AIO performs doesn't do me much good. That said, keep a full graph around. There are people that want performance above all, and a full graph keeps that easy.
     
  9. elise_s1

    elise_s1 New Member

    Joined:
    26 Jan 2015
    Posts:
    130
    Likes Received:
    4
    difficult answer.
    to test a cooler you should test it regardless of CPU and fan model: this will give the best comparison.
    so ditch the cpu altogether and insert a reliable heat generator with maximum heat transfer to the cooler mating surface.
    test it with different power output and different fan speed/flow.
    Instead of simple steady state also some measuring of thermal inertia will be useful as could provide further details about real world behaviour.
     
  10. Waynio

    Waynio Relaxing

    Joined:
    20 Aug 2009
    Posts:
    5,712
    Likes Received:
    211
    Me :D

    I'm using the noctua fans that came with my d14.

    Ugly colours though, could do with a paint job.
     
  11. ffjason

    ffjason New Member

    Joined:
    27 Jul 2009
    Posts:
    75
    Likes Received:
    3
    Don't De-Lid

    With the graphs - make the bars 50% thinner = twice as much space for results.
    Or make them "Smart" so people can tick boxes to show results - by default it only shows the last two coolers reviewed (i.e. the graph is small) and has additional tick boxes for users to tick to compare if they wish.
    You could even include a "show all" box for those who want to see everything.
     
  12. Jimbob

    Jimbob Member

    Joined:
    2 Jul 2009
    Posts:
    190
    Likes Received:
    1
    As we are testing the cooler, why not drop the whole problem and just leave a skt 1150 out of the tests?

    You already have a 2011 & AM3+ which gives a broad enough scope as they are much hotter running than 1150.
     
  13. Yadda

    Yadda Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    25 Jul 2003
    Posts:
    3,217
    Likes Received:
    49
    Testing coolers has become far too complicated.
     
  14. Combatus

    Combatus Bit-tech Modding + hardware reviews Staff Super Moderator

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2009
    Posts:
    2,752
    Likes Received:
    64
    Thanks for the feedback all. I think the poll results speaks for itself regarding de-lidding so we can consider that issue closed, although we obviously saw some merit in it, which is why we gave you the option.

    As for the graphs, at the moment, we've actually got a heck of a lot of results in there, which is why it's so crowded. As we'll be starting from scratch with new systems, it's going to take quite a while to get to this stage again, at which time we can re-visit this and maybe look at splitting the graphs and/or redesigning them to look less cluttered.

    As ffjason mentioned - redesigning the graphs would help so we'll certainly look into that.

    We've actually found that modern 1150 CPUs (which we'll be using) run a fair bit hotter than the 1155 CPU we currently have in our graphs but that's more to do with Intel's CPUs in this range not having a soldered heatspreader. However, the mounting mechanism can play a part in the cooling prowess too, which is why testing a cooler on as many sockets as possible is a good idea - especially the popular ones. It might mount brilliantly on LGA2011 but poorly on AMD or LGA1150 for example.
     
  15. Combatus

    Combatus Bit-tech Modding + hardware reviews Staff Super Moderator

    Joined:
    16 Feb 2009
    Posts:
    2,752
    Likes Received:
    64
    Once we've got a few results in hand, we can consider adding a price/performance graph too - we'll throw a few numbers in once we have them and see how it pans out and how useful it would be.
     
  16. Xir

    Xir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    26 Apr 2006
    Posts:
    5,250
    Likes Received:
    88
    If you're starting the list afresh, please consider remeasuring some "popular coolers" for reference.

    The last performance king, the last silent king, best sold/most popular ones (air and water) things like that.


    (I'd say simply take the ones from the last few hardware-buyers-guides but...nevermind)
    :D
     
    Last edited: 4 May 2015
  17. -EVRE-

    -EVRE- New Member

    Joined:
    12 May 2004
    Posts:
    372
    Likes Received:
    1
    No de-liding of CPU
    Different colors for types of cooling.
    different colors for SLI/crossfire/ 2gpu card.
    Hardware buyers guide! budget - mainstream - 4k.

    -EVRE
     
  18. dinoscothern

    dinoscothern Member

    Joined:
    16 Aug 2010
    Posts:
    131
    Likes Received:
    0
    Although the techie in me would like to see the de-lid results it would only show the reader: 'wow the lided results are really bad', so it sort of defeats the point. Intel already knows this but perhaps the extra publicity would influence them to improve things. So I'm of two minds here. Now if AMD produced a killer CPU, that might spur a change. ;)
     
Tags: Add Tags

Share This Page