Cooling Sorry for being a newb...

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by adpr_02, 26 Aug 2005.

  1. adpr_02

    adpr_02 What's a Dremel?

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    Hey guys. I signed up for your forum because I need some hlep. I am thinking of water cooling my venice 3200, and my new videocard.

    However, I am a total newb at this. I don't even know what I need. I am however really good with pc's and modding though.

    What I want is a complete cooling kit that would not cost me more than 200$ if possible, and to cool the GPU and CPU.

    If you guys could post some links or reccomendations of what to get, I would be VERRY happy.

    PS. I understand now you guys must think of me since I think the same of guys who come and ask how to OC. :D
     
  2. adpr_02

    adpr_02 What's a Dremel?

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    oh, I will get the antec sonata, so I don't care about noise. I probably will put two 120mm fans on the radiator, and 2 120mm fans to circulate air in the case. Then antec sonata is really quiet, so 4X 120mm fans won't bother me. All I care about is if my cpu is chilly.
     
  3. severedhead

    severedhead What's a Dremel?

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    Welcome to the forum dude.

    First off you need to know what you want out of your setup. Do you want extreme OCing performance, silence, or just good looks? You also need to decide whether to go for 1/2" or 3/8" tubing, neither really have an advantage over the other if your setup is put together well. Do you want big chunky tubes or smaller ones? Big imo looks better but can be hard to route around your case, small is easy to route and looks, well, small.

    Now you need to decide where to put everything. It can all take up surprising amount of space. Your rad will need cold air intake and the fan pulling air through it. Your res will ideally need to be the highest point of the loop to trap any air in the system, and your pump will need a home too. Have a look in the gallery at the top of this forum for some ideas on placement of the parts.

    Your loop will also need to be in a specific order, which can influence where you put stuff. Ideally: res>pump>rad>cpu>gpu>res.

    Now you need your parts: a pump, radiator, cpu block, gpu block, reservoir, tubing and clamps. Which ones you need can't be said at this stage as it depends on what hardware you have (and I'm not sure how much $200 is as I'm from the UK). You can have either a mains pump or 12V pump if your PSU isn't too strained atm. A reservoir can be anything from an ice-cream tub to a fishtank providing its set up correctly, although you are much better off buying a proper one. A bayres is a good idea as it fits in an unused 5.25 bay. You want at least a 120mm radiator, bigger if you can afford it and have a CPU or GPU that pumps out a lot of heat (P4 for example). You need blocks designed for the CPU or GPU in question, Danger Den are good, but might be out of your price range. Don't forget your tubing, tygon is good, but expensive as it is very flexible. And definately don't forget clamps, without it your connections will leak and that will be very expensive indeed.

    I naturally don't know of any good US sites to get stuff from, but Coolercases have a good range of kit so you know whats available to you.

    This is a rough guide for you and by no means complete. I'm tired and probably missed something but it should get you going.

    Happy cooling.
     
  4. adpr_02

    adpr_02 What's a Dremel?

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    I don't care about looks, sound, or anything else. All I care about is getting that really high OC. I probably will buy all my stuff, and not compromise since I do want it to be safe for my machine. I will buy an Antec Sonata 2, and I will probably TRY to put the radiator where the 120mm fan in the back would normally go. I want to go for small tubing and I don't really care about flexibility.

    What I want is a good for the price system that cools well, is safe, and is reasonably cheep. :D

    I will go looking around for pipes and tubing. thx. What about the liquid, is it water, or something special?


    BTW, thank you for the quick reply.
     
  5. adpr_02

    adpr_02 What's a Dremel?

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    OMG. Can anybody suggest some cheaper/well performing products?

    I did the math, and would go over 200$ with a more than 50$ waterblock

    I chose:

    The Danger Den DD12V-D5
    Black Ice XtremeII Radiator
    Danger Den Bay Reservoir High-Density Polyethylene
    Danger Den UV Tubing
    Plastic Snap Tubing Clamps

    I don't know WHICH water block would be OK I am now at 158$ us which is quite a bit, but I can live with I think.

    Can someone suggest a water block, or if there is a posibility, cheaper products?

    Also, do the water blocks, and reservoir come with the fittings for the tubing to be connected without any leaks?
     
  6. clocker

    clocker Shovel Ready

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    If I had a nickel for every time I've read that on forums....especially the sound part.
    In two weeks it's "OMFG!, I need a good fan controller!"

    For your block,the Swiftec Storm is reputed to be the best commercially made block available today.
    It is certainly a very good choice for your system.

    Make sure that all your devices have the same barb size so your tubing will fit.
    Define "reasonable".
    A current poll at Overclockers.com shows that the largest percentage of respondents (40%) spent over $300 on their loops.
    What starts out simple and inexpensive can balloon out of control pretty quickly....
     
  7. adpr_02

    adpr_02 What's a Dremel?

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    Yes, I am starting to get there too... I'l think about it. I don't know whether I'l stay with air cooling, or move to liquid yet, reason being prices, but I will definately think about it.
     
  8. adpr_02

    adpr_02 What's a Dremel?

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    is there any cpu block that is around 50$ and still good?
     
  9. Firehed

    Firehed Why not? I own a domain to match.

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    I think Dangerden's TDX is around that price, but from what I've heard you're much better off spending more for the Swiftech Storm block.

    I'd also consider going with a Black Ice Pro II instead of the Xtreme II. It costs less and although it doesn't cool quite as well, more air can pass through it because it's thinner (1" vs 1.5" I think) so your fans are less noisy and slower fans can work. And indeed, no matter what people say about not caring about noise, it gets annoying fast. And realistically, unless you're cooling an SLI 6800U/FX57 plus chipset (as I think the 7800GTXs run cooler than 6800Us), it's more than enough. You can only cool the water down so far before the extra size of the radiator is actually lowering flow rates and pressure and will actually hurt performance.

    I pieced something fairly basic together that would work out well for you I think:
    DD TDX block
    Black Ice Pro II rad
    CSP-MAG pump
    10ft 3/8" ID 5/8" OD Tygon tubing
    DD HDPE Res
    DD Fillport, T-fitting (you could use one or the other really)
    3/8" setup (for barbs, etc), comes out just about $200 with both the res and the fillport. You'd still need hoseclamps, but that'll get you going. If you want you could go 1/2" but imo it's a) fugly b) very hard to manage c) fugly d) unnecessary as blocks are designed to make use of more than just high flow nowadays.
     
  10. adpr_02

    adpr_02 What's a Dremel?

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    Well, thank you for the replies, everyone.

    I do think that's a good setup but how about I change some things JUST for lower price. (I know, I am annoying but I really don't have that much money :grr: ....)

    I seriously doubt that I'l be obsessed with sound since I am buying the Antec Sonata 2, and everybody says it has unbelievable sound canceling, and seing as my pc now sounds like a vacuum cleaner...

    The Black Ice Pro 2 seems GREAT, but I don't have anwyere to put it so that both fans blow outside the case. i only have one 120mm hole in my antec sonata. althought I guess I COULD modify it and make a fan hole on the ceiling of my case....

    What about the PolarFLO TT cpu block? I read some reviews and I hear it's great, and it's only 50$.

    10ft of tubing seems ok, but isn't it a bit too much?

    Deffinately the HDPE rez...

    I don't know about the pump. Do you think it is OK? I hear it doesn't have that much flow, but I guess you can't go any better at that low price.

    This will take me to about.. 150$ without shipping. Seems about right, I could live with that. Do you think I could get about 20C below stock with this setup on a AMD athlon 64 on load?

    Edit: Now that I think of it, I think you're right about that water block... :D Sorry for ever doubting you. I think that's a preety good system. I am seriously considering watercooling now as it only costs about 200$ canadian with shipping, and seing as GOOD air cooling (XP 120 and panaflo fan and vf700 for the gpu would take me to about 150$ canadian, I think that 200 is a bargain...

    Do I have to use fillports? Can't I just use distilled water? I hear it's non-conuctive.
     
    Last edited: 27 Aug 2005
  11. Firehed

    Firehed Why not? I own a domain to match.

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    I use one of those pumps, it's an excellent little unit. Very quiet, native RPM monitoring, good flow, etc. I'd probably never use anything else. I think the flowrates are about the same as the Laing DDC, but not quite as much head or something. Regardless, unless your system uses a Maze 1 block which relies solely on high flow, it's more than enough.

    A fillport is basically an alternative to a res. Instead of having the big bulky thing, you have a T just before the pump's inlet and water enters the loop that way. The fillport is effectively a nice cover for the tube coming off the T. It's more down to preference, but I've had terrible luck with bay res' in the past.

    And FYI, the sonata is only quiet because it uses quiet parts. Perhaps it has some sound dampening pads, don't remember, but if that's the case, it only effects really high frequency noises (think 40mm chipset fans)

    The Polarflo TT is a pretty good block. I don't have a TDX to compare it to, but I've used one in the past and was fairly satisfied with it. I definately prefer my German small-bore stuff though.

    10 ft is just to be safe. If you're decent at cutting the tubes, you shouldn't even need 5. But, you know, things happen.

    What's your stock temp? A64's provide pretty decent stock heatsinks. You'll definately be running much cooler and will be able to get a higher overclock, but I doubt you'll be 20c cooler unless you're running in the mid-60's.
     
  12. severedhead

    severedhead What's a Dremel?

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    Using a fillport is a good way of reducing cost and easy filling. Personally I like my backlit double bayres because people say "wtf? water!?" when they see it.

    I went into my local car accessory store and got a big 5L bottle of battery top up water (distilled water) for £3. Which is almost nothing. You can put an additive in it if you want like Purple Ice, Zerex or similar to improve its heat transfer and stop algea growth. I wouldn't advise Water Wetter though as it made a right mess of my system when i tried it and it looked horrible.

    The TDX is a good block, and is a lot easier to plumb in as it only has 1 in and 1 out on it, not 1 in and 2 outs like the Polarflo TT. The Polarflo looks damn good though, especially the chrome and black one.

    Its better to have too much tubing than have to order more and wait for it. It can be surprising how much you need if its spaced out.

    You could cut a couple of holes in the top of your case if you're feeling confident. Make sure it will still fit though before you cut it. If you are planning on mounting it and its fans internally you will lose 2 5.25 bays or not be able to fit your PSU so measure carefully. You could make a bracket for your radiator yourself if you're up to it. Scan's new 3XS Chameleon PC has a dual 120mm rad mounted on a custom bracket bolted to the back of its case. I can't find it on their site, but will scan the page in the mag I saw it in when I get back from work.
     
  13. adpr_02

    adpr_02 What's a Dremel?

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    Well, I am preety good at making stuff, so making a bracket won't be a problem. I want to Overclock my new Venice 3200+ from 2ghz to 3ghz or more. I hear that EVERYBODY is getting it to 2.6-2.8 on STOCK cooling, so I am dreaming of what water could make me achieve. What do you guys think? think I'l be able to reach it?

    Oh, so with a fillport, I don't have to have a reservoir. But won't that mean that I will get worse cooling as the same water passes through my system more times? Great advice there. From your last post, I cut 20$ off my total price, so I am really content. But how exactly do fill ports work?

    OMG today I learnt SO much about water cooling. THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH.

    Right now I am at 185$ us including shipping.
     
  14. adpr_02

    adpr_02 What's a Dremel?

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    How big is the performance difference between Black Ice 1, and Black Ice 2?
     
  15. severedhead

    severedhead What's a Dremel?

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    The picture of Scan's new beast with radiator bracket.
    [​IMG]

    A fill port is basically another bit of pipe which plumbs into your current loop with a T connector and will connect to a stylee little port in the top panel of your pc allowing easy filling and air trapping n stuff.
     
  16. adpr_02

    adpr_02 What's a Dremel?

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    OK, this is what I have

    Copper TDX Block - 52$
    CSP-MAG pump - 50$
    Danger Den Fillport - 11$
    ClearFlex 60 Tubing 10 ft. - 12.50$
    Black Ice Pro II Radiator - 35$

    Total = 160$
    Total with shipping 190$

    LOL. ANYTHING I can do to get it cheeper?

    Anyway, the site says that if u go over 100$, they give you a free water free MCT 5 bottle, so I guess that's good.



    EDIT: I have fiddled around a bit, and managed to reduce the price a bit. I am going to send it to myself in our american mailbox, and not our canadian one. How's this deal?
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/adpr_02/Watercooling.jpg
     
    Last edited: 29 Aug 2005
  17. Fr4nk

    Fr4nk Tyrannosaurus Alan !

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    Well all of that seems fine but did you not say you wanted to cool your gfx card ?

    Also so what GFX card are you running? (or am i just blind :duh:)
     
  18. adpr_02

    adpr_02 What's a Dremel?

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  19. clocker

    clocker Shovel Ready

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  20. ou7blaze

    ou7blaze sensational.

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    I don't know about that setup but since you have chosen the larger black ice pro II radiator I think you will be able to acommodate cooling for GPU later on.

    Don't expect as high CPU clocks as the GPU will produce more heat for the cooling system to handle.
     
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